The Mini-axe of destruction [dnd 4e]

[Kyrthain]

I was reading a while ago about the d2 crusader, and some people saying it wouldn't work. i then realized that a combination of gauntlets of destruction and a vorpal weapon could have the same effect in 4e.
However the only problem is a lack of d2 weapons. So I was thinking that since vorpal weapons have to be either heavy blades or axes, and any sword that does only d2 damage couldn't possibly be heavy, the only type of weapon that could work would be some type of tiny axe. Thereby the infinite damage dealing mini axe of destruction was born.

Any comments, problems i overlooked? (other than the need to homebrew in the base weapon itself, but without this cheese it's not the least bit broken)

[Tsotha-lanti]

Why would an axe be more likely to deal d2 damage than a sword? Axes are generally regarded as more brutal weapons than swords, AFAIK, hacking apart shields and possibly even injuring warriors in full harness.

[Kyrthain]

well, you could make a tiny little axe that wouldn't do much damage. with a sword, if it were that small, it would be a light blade, and thus ineligible for being vorpal.

[ninja_penguin]

Heck, a Falchion with the gauntlets/vorpal property will be pretty impressive by itself. a 50% chance overall of either rerolling or exploding. We've just avoided it because we don't want to accidentally lose track of how much damage we're doing because we don't have that many d4s hanging around.

[Grynning]

IIRC there is no rule in 4th for tiny weapons; there aren't even small sized weapons any more. This just wouldn't work by RAW.

[RTGoodman]

IIRC there is no rule in 4th for tiny weapons; there aren't even small sized weapons any more. This just wouldn't work by RAW.

Yeah, pretty much.

Heck, a Falchion with the gauntlets/vorpal property will be pretty impressive by itself.

I did a sample character that was a Bugbear with a Vorpal Executioner's Axe. Oversized means the Execution Axe is 2d6 Brutal 2 (unless there's been some errata or something recently), meaning you get to reroll 1s and 2s, and Vorpal means you get to reroll and ADD when you roll a 6. It's pretty ridiculous.

[Kyrthain]

I didn't mean an axe designed for a tiny character, just some sort of miniature axe that doesn't do much damage

[Grynning]

If you create such an item and actually allow it to do damage and be enchanted as a weapon, you are houseruling. If you are doing it for the express purpose of creating an infinite damage loop, it is munchkinry.

4th ed. eliminated 1d2 weapons to prevent this kind of thing. They don't exist in the edition. Plain and simple.

[daa18]

I don't think you understand the OP. It's an interesting thought exercise, not something to be used in a real game. And that weapon, while it's likely to draw attention from a shrewd DM, is a perfectly reasonable homebrew request. Especially if you give it some extra features to divert suspicion.

[RTGoodman]

I don't think you understand the OP. It's an interesting thought exercise, not something to be used in a real game. And that weapon, while it's likely to draw attention from a shrewd DM, is a perfectly reasonable homebrew request. Especially if you give it some extra features to divert suspicion.

The point of Theoretical Optimization, which this is, is to work WITHIN THE RULES to achieve your ends. Trying to claim an impossible-in-the-system homebrew as a portion of it just doesn't work.

[Grynning]

I don't think you understand the OP. It's an interesting thought exercise, not something to be used in a real game. And that weapon, while it's likely to draw attention from a shrewd DM, is a perfectly reasonable homebrew request. Especially if you give it some extra features to divert suspicion.

Nothing about this is "perfectly reasonable." Creating an infinite damage loop is, in a word, cheating. It means you can one-shot any enemy with a single hit roll, trivialize any encounter, and remove a great deal of the fun from the game. To use your own words, if it has to get past a "shrewd DM" by having some "some extra features to divert suspicion," it means that it's not something that should be allowed in a game with any respect for the rules. It's not a thought exercise in optimization either, since it requires you to change the rules for it to work. Optimization within the rules is challenging and fun, yes, making stuff up to attain instant win buttons is just...well...making stuff up.

In 3rd edition, this kind of thing was attainable within the rules, and such things were posted on these boards only to demonstrate where said rules were broken. They were never meant to be used, and to "homebrew" something specifically to create an exploit is just silly. If you're doing that, it's not optimizing, it's not even power-gaming; in the parlance of most RP circles, it's being a munchkin.

I am not criticizing the OP personally, I understand the appeal of finding a loophole in the rules. I was just pointing out that in this case, said loophole does not exist. Homebrew is homebrew, yes, but good homebrew is stuff people will use and have fun with, not break the game with.

To the OP: As many have pointed out, combining Vorpal and Brutal on a weapon is very effective, and your logic is not bad. I encourage using your head to get good damage out of a character. I just disapprove of throwing the rules out the window to make your character into a god. The rules are there to make it a game that you can enjoy with others; they are also the basis of discussions on boards like this one, because it's the frame of reference we all have to compare things.

[Kyrthain]

Don't worry, i have absolutely no intention of actually using this in a campaign or anything. just thought it was kind of interesting

[Leon]

Makes me think of the cheese cleaver we have here, looks exactly like a full size cleaver but is about 2inches in length