MitD - What We Know

[kirbsys]

Young titan seems fairly plausible to me. A young one would be small enough to fit under the umbrella and in the box. It has the SLA Gate (which although it opens a gate, yes, Plane-Shift has been shown to both open a gate and to simply teleport, so why not Gate too?). Incredible strength? Check. DR? Yup. Just my 2 coppers.

Snorlax would be better though.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Young titan seems fairly plausible to me. A young one would be small enough to fit under the umbrella and in the box. It has the SLA Gate (which although it opens a gate, yes, Plane-Shift has been shown to both open a gate and to simply teleport, so why not Gate too?). Incredible strength? Check. DR? Yup. Just my 2 coppers.

Snorlax would be better though.

I know this is going to sound weird coming from me, but no, Snorlax wouldn't be better, it would be silier. It fits absurdly well, but I cannot imagine the Giant sitting down back in strip 100 and deciding that the MitD was actually going to be a Pokemon. At the time, the strip was pure D&D - the references to FF and Pokemon came much later. It would also be extremely jarring. So far, FF and Pokemon have been gags, mostly (although the escape from prison storyline did mix in a lot of FF), but can you seriously picture a major character like MitD turning out to be a Pokemon? this argument, however, is basically metathinking - trying to guess what the author is thinking - and I hate arguments based on that, bcause it boils down to "the author could be messing with us, and we have to wait".

Re: Titans. Why would it be surprising if one talked? And is it both beautiful and horrible at once? Other than that, I admit it is fairly plausible. Certainly better than tarrasque or pit fiend. Besides, I remain unconvinced that it was MitD the one that teleported O-Chul anyway. I'm guessing that we will know what really happened when the action switches back to V and O-Chul (next comic, I'd say).

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

[Zorack]

MitD is, in fact a...














Kobold on steriods.

[lothos]

Ha,
I've finally figured it out, I know without any doubt whatsoever what MitD is:

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It's a Vorlon from Babylon 5 !!!

The evidence is irrefutable:

* Rich has expressed his admiration for Babylon 5 many times

* When Vorlons are seen by the "young races", it makes them tired (check out the wikipedia article for a citation on this) and after the STOMP and whatever effect it was to help V and O-Chul escape, MitD was tired...

* The ability that it used to help V and O-Chul escape was of course a jump gate that it summoned.....

* It's well known that Vorlons repeatedly asked for Stew in large quantities from Sheridan during the entire run of Babylon 5. As the wikepedia article says, they speak in short enigmatic phrases... like "STEW".

* No-one can prove it's not a Vorlon, so I must be right !!! There is no possibility that any other theory can account for all the things we know about MitD as well as this one..... apart from several other theories that several other people have already posted.....

:-)

[Mawhrin Skel]

No-one knows a creature with a fascinate ability?

And the MitD can't be a pop-culture reference because... ?

1. The pokeballs are incidental to the story, purely gags. They could be swapped out for any other summoning effect without changing the story. Likewise, the FF populated airship leaving Cliffport could have been cut entirely without affecting the story. The nature of the MITD however is plot-critical. An MITD based on someone else's intellectual property is far more likely to get Rich sued than the pokeballs as parody is an exception in copyright law. It would also be particularly jarring storytelling.

2. Snorlax is not well known enough to be pop-culture. I know more pokemon than any self respecting mumble-year-old should (I know who Team Rocket are! Argh!) but I've never heard of Snorlax.

[Selene]

Look, I understand perfectly people disliking the anime or being annoyed by the merchandising (hey, it annoys me too!), but that's not a reason to dismiss a series of good games altogether. Let's not forget that the "actual monsters" are in fact those in the games, and they don't say their names over and over again, they have cries like regular animals. Regular animals that can shoot lightning bolts, but still.

Just because crimes like Underworld or Blade have been committed doesn't mean I never want to hear about a vampire or a werewolf ever again. See what I mean?

Superman 64 is a famously bad game that was released on the Nintendo 64, a few years back. It's the spiritual little brother of that E.T. game from 1983.

I feel like you're taking my dislike of Pokemon way too personally, here. I didn't say I hate you. I said I hate them.

The problem with your vampire analogy is that no one company is responsible for making vampire movies. The Pokemon movies were official, and sanctioned by the company who makes the games. And they include the same characters. Would you want to play a Blade or Underworld game? Because that's a better analogy. And personally, I kind of liked both of those. Well, I liked Lucien in Underworld, anyway. And Wesley Snipes was pretty badass, so that was good. When I think bad vampire movies, I think more of stuff like Van Helsing. And I wouldn't want to play a Van Helsing game, either. So no, I don't see what you mean.

Ok, E.T. I had. Never could get out of the pit. The one or two times I did, those guys with the spy coats grabbed me and stuffed me somewhere. It was indeed bad. But I still got more entertainment out of that lame thing than I did out of the Pokemon movie. Possibly because I was a little kid then, but still.

The giant's words on the subject from War & XPs (spoilered)

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I think the most frequently asked question I have gotten at conventions is, "When will we see what the Monster in the Darkness is?" followed closely by "What is the Monster in the Darkness?" So, just so everyone is clear: I know exactly what the Monster in the Darkness really is. I have (almost) always known.

Its first two or three appearances were before I had worked out much of the plot's details, so at that point, I just figured it was a mystery that I would never answer. Once I started developing the real story that I was telling, around strip #100, I figured out what the monster really was and have been dropping hints ever since.

(Note that nothing from before strip #100 actually contradicts the truth of what it is either). I now know exactly when and why the monster will reveal itself, too... don't expect it any time soon though. Sorry. There's a lot of story left, and that little titbit will need to wait to close to the end.

I will say this much: It is possible to guess.

That is, it isn't something I just made up for this story. It wouldn't be any fun for the answer to a mystery to be something I invented just for this one purpose, would it? I won't finally throw back the darkness and have someone say, "Look! It was a therblewurkersaurus the entire time!" or some other made-up monster.

I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one, but I trust that someone will figure it out eventually.

Thanks for posting that. I've only bought the prequels so far.

Of all the things I've seen proposed, I would say "titan" involves the least stretching, with "tarrasque" involving a really quite excessive amount.

They both begin with a T, though.

That. (I'm not ready to completely rule out Sphinx yet, though.)

I'm sorry, isn't it possible you're over-thinking the Go Board image?

When I looked at The Go Board I didn't think it was a picture of The MiTD. I thought it was a representation of O-Chul's point.

The white pieces represent Xykon (to me, the white part looks like his skull) and the black part represents The MiTD. And it seems like the white is threatening to destroy that base of pieces, just as Xykon is threatening to crush The MiTD's ability to reason and fight back. But just like the Go game, Xykon cannot crush The MiTD as is, just as white cannot take The MiTD, even though The MiTD is surrounded by Xykon's 'skull'.

I thought it was a very VERY neat visual representation of O-Chul's speech and I don't really think it's supposed to be a clue to what the MiTD is. Or to O-Chul.

That, too.

According to Meowth, any Pokemon can learn to talk. Most don't bother/never get the chance. This fact already puts the pokemon theory ahead of most of the other theories presented (demons and such can talk, tarrasques and other creatures can't, Pokemon can but usually don't)

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

Trademark. Infringement. Using any trademarked character = Rich pays tons of royalties or he gets sued.

[B. Dandelion]

I'm all for Snorlax. I mean, it helps that I came to that conclusion totally independently, but I really don't think it'd be any worse than, oh, say, random Rainbow Bright references.

Personally, I'm 27, which means I was too old for Pokemon when it was brand-new. I remember it getting big right around my Junior year in high school. My best friend -- yes my actual friend, as in a person other than myself -- was into the cartoon and for a time I affected to be too cool for that kid's stuff. I claimed I only sat with her to humor her, but really I started to like it, and to like having the excuse to watch it. I didn't LOVE it, but it had its charms, and I always did want to know what the deal with Meowth was. (This is akin to the excuse a few years later of watching DBZ in the hopes they will explain why the hell everyone is flying.) So then I played the games just to see what the fuss was all about. They're not that bad. Addictive as hell. More importantly, they're RPGs, so I think they could be argued as an outgrowth of the same tradition D&D itself originated from. I really don't see the problem in incorporating a few of the elements in a homebrew or in a webcomic that is equally an outgrowth.

I know more pokemon than any self respecting mumble-year-old should (I know who Team Rocket are! Argh!)

Yes, but can you do the motto?

At least he's of the original 151. Which is still way too damn many for the casual fan, but I think he'd be of the most readily recognizable even in that group. He was one of the anime's running gags for a time -- a sleeping Snorlax is always in the way, people are forever falling asleep due to Jigglypuff's song, and Psyduck is perennially useless and shows up only when it's most inconvenient. Sheesh, I didn't even know I still remembered this much... I have a very high retention rate for useless trivia.

Ok, E.T. I had. Never could get out of the pit. The one or two times I did, those guys with the spy coats grabbed me and stuffed me somewhere.

More useless trivia: Did you know you could turn that feature off? I feel dumb for having played as much of that game as I did, but I'd have never been able to tolerate getting captured all the time seeing as you lose your telephone pieces when that happens.

It was indeed bad. But I still got more entertainment out of that lame thing than I did out of the Pokemon movie. Possibly because I was a little kid then, but still.

Well, plus it sounds like you didn't have much of an opt-out there. I think it's harder to put up with that kind of thing if you're sort of obligated to. That said I've never sat through that whole movie in one sitting and I beat E.T. about 2000 times so...

Trademark. Infringement. Using any trademarked character = Rich pays tons of royalties or he gets sued.

Couldn't it be fair use? He got away with the Mindflayer, the cast of FF6 and "Zz'dtri".

[Haedrian]

Not sure its been mentioned yet...

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html

"So, am I going to get to devour something soon?"

Given its the middle of a battle...

I would think that one of the primary attacks involves devouring stuff.

[TETanglebrooke]

Trademark. Infringement. Using any trademarked character = Rich pays tons of royalties or he gets sued.

Learn about copyright laws before you say things like this. I have said it before and i guess ill say it again. You can bypass copyright laws for the purposes of parody. Weird Al doesn't have to ask any of the original artists if he can make fun of their songs, incidentally he does but thats more because he isnt a jerk, so it stands to reason that this could infact be a snorlax or any other pokemon without necessarily triggering any copyright laws. (this is also why he didnt get in trouble for the mindflayer and beholder in that one strip http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0032.html

Finally it eating does not rule out outsider. the type description says they do not NEED to eat but CAN IF THEY WISH

[7RED7]

Kind of a newb question here, but many of the "specs" on MitD are based on he/she/it "escaping" V and Och, right?

Weren't there two other casters around there as well?
After V's black dragon battle the IFCC implied that the necromancer was free until they retrieved her? She just couldn't cast spells without a host.

So here's my question. Could the other two casters have used someone else to cast a spell which would allow V/O to escape, without having another soul splice performed? Assuming that the energy drain didn't completely nullify their spellcasting abilities.

Highly unlikely, but they are still characters which may have been present and are in need of a good Holmesian deducing to officially rule them out.

[rxmd]

We also seem to know that its name is Mikey. (EDIT: As per #476. Of course, that could also be a spurious Quaker Oats reference, I don't know if you Americans would understand it that way.)

[Fish]

In Start of Darkness, page 101, it also

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...wished for tacos. And got them. Out in the middle of nowhere.

[Dork Lord]

We also seem to know that its name is Mikey. (EDIT: As per #476. Of course, that could also be a spurious Quaker Oats reference, I don't know if you Americans would understand it that way.)

That would seem to be a reference to the old Life cereal commercial from the 80s.

Hm, yeah, it was made by Quaker Oats. I didn't know that. I figured that commercial was only in America. You learn something new every day.

[Lufia]

I feel like you're taking my dislike of Pokemon way too personally, here. I didn't say I hate you. I said I hate them.
*snip*

I'm sorry if my previous message read like an overreaction.

I've been in too many video games arguments were entire franchises were dismissed for the sole reason of fanboyism. Not to mention that "Pokemon sucks, lol" tends to translate to a very condescending "You like Pokemon? You poor misguided thing!". I think I've a mild case of PTSD from these dark times.

Anyway, Grey_Wolf_c summarised my position on the issue pretty well: the MitD being Snorlax would be silly but everything fits.

[Exileman]

All right, I'm throwing my hat into the ring in a way. It's an organizational hat. I'm taking a different tack on the guessing and attempting to use the strips to answer key questions. I'm not even going to guess....yet. So, first a few clarifications. Thanks to Hamishspence for this:

The giant's words on the subject from War & XPs (spoilered)

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I think the most frequently asked question I have gotten at conventions is, "When will we see what the Monster in the Darkness is?" followed closely by "What is the Monster in the Darkness?" So, just so everyone is clear: I know exactly what the Monster in the Darkness really is. I have (almost) always known.

Its first two or three appearances were before I had worked out much of the plot's details, so at that point, I just figured it was a mystery that I would never answer. Once I started developing the real story that I was telling, around strip #100, I figured out what the monster really was and have been dropping hints ever since.

(Note that nothing from before strip #100 actually contradicts the truth of what it is either). I now know exactly when and why the monster will reveal itself, too... don't expect it any time soon though. Sorry. There's a lot of story left, and that little titbit will need to wait to close to the end.

I will say this much: It is possible to guess.

That is, it isn't something I just made up for this story. It wouldn't be any fun for the answer to a mystery to be something I invented just for this one purpose, would it? I won't finally throw back the darkness and have someone say, "Look! It was a therblewurkersaurus the entire time!" or some other made-up monster.

I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one, but I trust that someone will figure it out eventually.

This, by itself, rules out anything to do with the snarl. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is the last time I'll mention the snarl tho.

Now, going forward, let's assume the Giant isn't a lier. This means that clues in the strip in regards to the MitD should be considered accurate. Otherwise, their's no point.

Here's my next bit of outside help, largely cause i got beat to the punch by a fair margin. Thank you, belkar=awsome for compiling EVERY MitD Strip.

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235
37
47
825
95(mentioned by Redcloak, panel 3)
966
975
1035
105
1066
109
110
113(Thanks to David Argall.)
1145
117
120(Thanks to David Argall.)
1471A
1481A
1491A
1901A
1911A
1921A
1945
1956
196
259
2991A5
3316
3681A
369
371
373
3742,5
3751A,2
376 (mentioned by Redcloak in panel 3)(Thanks to Dziadek )
4141A
4151A,6
4221A
4281A
4311A
4471A
4511A
4631A
4741A
4751A5
4761A
4771A,2,5
4841A
541
5436
5491A
5505
6511A,3
654
658
6615

Now for the questions that will help determine WHAT it is. I will put the numbers above in regards to what questions, if any, a given strip either answers or gives a clue towards. If I put an A beside anything, this will indicate an art based clue, which are suspect. They are suspect not due to the artist's capability, but largely due to different possible interpretations. I will also list what i am referring to in each question.

1: What size is the MitD? There are a few artistic clues. Almost all of the strips where the MitD is outside with the umbrella, it appears to be the same size as other Medium size creatures (I'm using DND nomenclature as it is easily understood what i mean amongst large numbers of people.) 549 is where I personnally get a feel for the MitD's size. The placement of the bowl's shows that the MitD's arms are about as long as O'Chul is tall. This is an artistic based judgement tho, and is suspect. A similar placement is seen with the go board in 651.
2: What damages the MitD? 374 shows the MitD getting hit repeatedly by Miko's sword, and commenting it tickles, indicating either very, very high HP or DR of some kind. (Again, DND nomenclature merely as a descriptive device), yet in the very next strip, 375, it is hurt by paper. This could indicate that as opposed to DR, it may be immune to METALIC objects. In 477, Belkar stabs it repeatedly as well, to no effect as well. He is also using metalic, slashing/piercing weapons, similar to miko.
3: What kind of parents, if any, did the MitD have? 651 gives us a canon mention of his father. the MitD says his father was BIG and ate alot more than he did.
4: What does the MitD look like (based upon in strip comments)? Largely in SoD, the MitD's appearance is mentioned as being hideous, and yet beautiful.
5: What abilities does the MitD have? 23 and 97 Seem to indicate a lack of darkvision, but 82 specifically states the MitD is in magical darkness, a point towards it possibly being able to generate such an effect. 194 adds to the magical darkness thought. 103 and 114 Seem to indicate a lack of INTENTIONAL intimdation abilities (this isn't to say it might not look horrifying). In 299, the MitD states that it can help raise the dead. It is imeddiatly assumed to be lying, but the Giant MAY have been indicating actual ability. 374 gives us a very clear indicator of the MitD's strength. 475 Shows it shouting and causing reveberations, knocking stuff off the table, and scaring Belkar and Haley, indicating a possible sonic based power. 477 Shows us his stomping power. This is a serious indication of a likely magical ability, or possibly a very, VERY high strength. He does mention he gets tired afterwards, possibly indicating his inability to due this very often. 550 gives us a scale of either the MitD's intelligience, or possible growing intellect. 651 shows the MitD's eyes glow as he yells ESCAPE, immediately afterwhich V and O disappear. This speaks of some ability to either cause invisibily, teleportation, or some other effect. Time stop has been mentioned, tho this seems unlikely at this time because it would have affected the MitD as well and he would KNOW what happened.
6: What, if any, relation is there between the MitD and the gates? I have seen people saying that the MitD cannot see the gate due to 96, and it often forgets about the gate as seen in 331, 196, 415, and 106. It may just be forgetful/dismissive, as in 96 it clearly sees the gate and immediately dismisses/forgets it.

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Celia has been mentioned in regards to gate non-noticement, so if anyone could find the strip, a link would be appreciated.

. In 543, Tsukiko says where's the gate and the MitD responds' "Hey thats my line". This is likely a comedic effect, and not a clue.

A few other clues worth mentioning come from SoD.
1: The creature IS identifyable based upon its appearance. Not everyone seems to know, only a few specific individuals. These individuals being the BBGH (british big game hunters) who found and captured IT, and redcloak. Now, I place more importance on Redcloak, as his EXACT words (I looked this morning) were "I know what you are." Xykon hasn't ever stated he knows, while the MITD believes Xykon does know.
2: Not immune to mind affecting magic. Xykon proves this in SoD, I won't say how due to spoiler hood.

In regards to his "alignement": I do not feel enough empirical evidence exists to make any comment on alignement at this time. Many things are important in regards to perspective, such as his willingness to hurt the OOTS. He may believe they deserve it, much as miko did.

Hopefully this clears up a few things.

[soj]

MitD is...

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http://www.playdota.com/heroes/105
tiny, the stone giant!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

4: What does the MitD look like (based upon in strip comments)? Largely in SoD, the MitD's appearance is mentioned as being hideous, and yet beautiful.

No idea if this supports any theory, but I'm going to point out that the people that think it is both beautiful and hideous are, IIRC, goblins and other chaotic evil creatures in the public of the freak show. Their sense of beauty may be different from that of a human - thus they may find a ridiculously ugly creature by our standards, "beautiful" by theirs.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

[EmeraldPhoenix]

I listed all the Mitd strips for future references such as this one. (I don't know if anyone else posted that, I don't want to go through 10 pages of stuff.)

See my sig for a link.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I listed all the Mitd strips for future references such as this one. (I don't know if anyone else posted that, I don't want to go through 10 pages of stuff.)

See my sig for a link.

It's been mentioned/linked about three times. Last one was Exileman, four or five posts up. By the way, thanks. It is invaluable.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

[Exileman]

No idea if this supports any theory, but I'm going to point out that the people that think it is both beautiful and hideous are, IIRC, goblins and other chaotic evil creatures in the public of the freak show. Their sense of beauty may be different from that of a human - thus they may find a ridiculously ugly creature by our standards, "beautiful" by theirs.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

Actually several species say it. The first (chronologically within the oots universe) a Human Male says "It's Hideous" and the Human Female next to him says "Yet Beautiful."

And Belkar=awsome, it really is invaluable. I just spoiler'd the links for space reasons. I had gotten the idea a day or 2 ago, and then found your thread, saving me copious amounts of effort.

[Boaromir]

Of all the things I've seen proposed, I would say "titan" involves the least stretching, with "tarrasque" involving a really quite excessive amount.

They both begin with a T, though.

I laughed. In general though, I'd be super disappointed if it was a Tarrasque. It is, like you said, a fairly large amount of stretching to justify it right now.

[deathpigeon]

Your missing 662.

[Hardcore]

That he can/want to Devour people is a significant clue imo.

What cloud the investigation so far is the failure to filter out that which is simply child traits and behaviour from the real clues.

[Skorj]

That he can/want to Devour people is a significant clue imo.

If we assume that the stomp that shattered the ground for some distance was a SLA or psionic ability, these two clues should really limit the field.

What critter could possibly have Stomp/Earthquake, possibly Wish/Alter Reality, and yet still be fundamentally biological? MiTD eats prodigously, presumably grows over time (father was bigger), is aware of sexuality and presumably reproduces sexually. Extra-Planar creatures seem not to be that biological.

For that matter, are there any psionic creatures that devour their prey's bodies (as opposed to minds)? Any at all?

[JLrep]

I think one of the biggest clues so far has been in SoD...

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...when the MitD states that "Sometimes, it's hard being looked at by so many [people]." This, along with the recent spell-effect, makes me think that it's almost definitely not a member of a big, strong, usually-stupid race, but rather a powerful magical, psionic, etc., creature, specifically one whose physical presence and visual appearance are not so closely linked as in normal beings.

Though, I don't know how many D&D monsters (or mythological monsters) fit this description anywhere near satisfactorily. I know there's a D&D monster that takes the form of whatever is most frightening to its viewer, but that really doesn't make sense for many other reasons.

[Hardcore]

But that could simply be a child feeling insecure.

[Salt_Crow]

OK, here's my addition to Pit Fiend/Outsider theory. MitD is a pit fiend-balor hybrid much like Sabine is of succubus-erinyes. The running joke about "light me up" is a reference to the Flame Body of balor and the huge size of MitD's dad seems to correspond well with the gigantic sized balor summoned by the imp.

Of course, it's just a speculation ignoring details such as how rangers recognised it and its assumed inability to speak etc etc.

[slgann]

http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/0...ctures-this-2/

[Wildrose]

Lol! I knew that picture reminded me of something. A Lol-MITD!

[Selene]

More useless trivia: Did you know you could turn that feature off? I feel dumb for having played as much of that game as I did, but I'd have never been able to tolerate getting captured all the time seeing as you lose your telephone pieces when that happens.

Wow, I wish I'd known that back in the 80s... Stupid E. T. game. LOL.

Couldn't it be fair use? He got away with the Mindflayer, the cast of FF6 and "Zz'dtri".

Mindflayer was a throwaway gag, though, not a major ongoing character. I think it would depend how it's used. And if it got to the court stage, it would basically be up to a judge's discretion. Personally, I wouldn't take the chance. If the owners of Pokemon are anything like the owners of Godzilla, they'll go after him with at least a cease and desist order just for the hell of it. And then he ends up with court costs, wasted time and effort, stress he doesn't need, and everything else that goes along with an infringement claim, whether he wins or not.

Learn about copyright laws before you say things like this. I have said it before and i guess ill say it again. You can bypass copyright laws for the purposes of parody. Weird Al doesn't have to ask any of the original artists if he can make fun of their songs, incidentally he does but thats more because he isnt a jerk, so it stands to reason that this could infact be a snorlax or any other pokemon without necessarily triggering any copyright laws. (this is also why he didnt get in trouble for the mindflayer and beholder in that one strip http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0032.html

Actually, being a 3d artist, I have to protect my own intellectual property all the time. So I'm quite familiar with trademark laws. This is not a copyright issue. It's a trademark issue. It's not the same thing, and it doesn't have the same laws. If a company doesn't protect their trademark, they lose it. Look it up. Perhaps you should learn what you're talking about before blasting somebody else with incorrect information.

And Weird Al, incidentally, is a different issue entirely. Weird Al pays the recording company for the rights to do what amounts to a cover version. It has nothing to do with parody laws. It has to do with licensing fees, which he pays. THAT is why he is only asking out of courtesy.

I'm sorry if my previous message read like an overreaction.

Meh, don't worry about it. I just didn't want to give you the impression that I was attacking you, personally.

I've been in too many video games arguments were entire franchises were dismissed for the sole reason of fanboyism. Not to mention that "Pokemon sucks, lol" tends to translate to a very condescending "You like Pokemon? You poor misguided thing!". I think I've a mild case of PTSD from these dark times.

I didn't mean it that way. I've just got PTSD from the movie.