MitD - What We Know

[Optimystik]

No. He did not.

Let's not base our speculations on Telephone Game distortions of what Rich said.

Listen to the druid, people.

I presume Godzilla is protected by copyright.

I doubt it: Godzilla has permeated the public consciousness to the point that it has become metonymy. It is so synonymous with the concept of "giant monster" that characters in fictional works should be free to use the terms interchangeably, just like with the words "copy" and "xerox."

[Jackson]

I doubt it: Godzilla has permeated the public consciousness to the point that it has become metonymy. It is so synonymous with the concept of "giant monster" that characters in fictional works should be free to use the terms interchangeably, just like with the words "copy" and "xerox."

That's not really how copyright law works. Though, since your example is just the use of the name, rather than of the actual intellectual property, that's right as far as it goes. But since it seems like they were arguing whether or not the MiTD would be a Godzilla (whatever that means), which would infringe on actual intellectual property, we'd probably just be set up for another Jones & Rodriguez appearance if it turned out that way.

Nothing I've seen Rich say excludes the possibility of MiTD being a non-D&D monster. There are plenty of made-up monsters to go around. I'd still expect it to turn out to be one, but I would neither be shocked nor cry foul if it's revealed to be from another grouping of invented monsters.

[Ancalagon]

Does not matter how copyright law works. Unless Rich makes the "mitd as godzilla" (or pit-fiend, for that matter!) a major plot in his story, he'll get away with "it's satire". An entire book or even a half one about "The Mini-Godzilla from the Shadows" would probably cause trouble.
But some stick-figured mini-godzilla that shows up in like... up to a dozen strips (and only in a few panels in them) among 150 and most of them are full of jokes... I doubt someone would even consider to sue.

[Jackson]

That is also not how copyright law works.

[Acero]

don't know if this has been stated b4, but the MitD could be a shapeshifter

[derfenrirwolv]

Its a DM!

Horrifically powerful, can make anything they want happen, plays with dolls (the characters) , stays hidden in the shadows even though everyone knows its there, and Usually works best by making people think he's done nothing at all.

[NYYanks6083]

I can't imagine no one's suggested this before, so I apologize if this has already been thrown out there, but what about some kind of epic-class dragon(like a force or prismatic)? It would explain the re-god-damn-diculous strength score, and his DR would be epic, so that fits the fact that he's pretty much invulnerable, and I'm fairly certain those dragons gain spells as a sorc as they get older, so there's your teleport. Also I think both of those dragons are usually good, and the MITD has shown that he's not evil.

Just an idea...or even better, the Tarrasque? It fits the "great bull" description, and explains his strength, although the teleport not so much haha

[hamishspence]

Main problem is size- the Monster isn't very big, and these dragons (Prismatic, Force) start at Huge.

[Kish]

I can't imagine no one's suggested this before, so I apologize if this has already been thrown out there, but what about some kind of epic-class dragon(like a force or prismatic)? It would explain the re-god-damn-diculous strength score, and his DR would be epic, so that fits the fact that he's pretty much invulnerable, and I'm fairly certain those dragons gain spells as a sorc as they get older, so there's your teleport. Also I think both of those dragons are usually good, and the MITD has shown that he's not evil.

Someone did propose a prismatic dragon. The sky-high Intelligence and Wisdom scores present something of a problem, though I'd still call it way more viable than...

Just an idea...or even better, the Tarrasque? It fits the "great bull" description, and explains his strength, although the teleport not so much haha

The lack of any intelligence or teleportation ability takes the tarrasque completely off the table as far as I'm concerned.

Nothing in the story links the creature in the darkness to the orcs' former god in any way. That interpretation hinges on missing the joke about where the "great bull" went.

[Ancalagon]

I think the fact that the MM *explicitly* states there's only one tarrasque (ever, not even "one at any time" but really "there is only one in your world, really!") takes "another, smaller tarrasque" from the table.
Rich could have changed that, sure. But I think one of the points that makes the tarrasque what it is and what makes is special is its absolute and basically unparalleled uniqueness.

[willdelve4beer]

Its a DM!

Horrifically powerful, can make anything they want happen, plays with dolls (the characters) , stays hidden in the shadows even though everyone knows its there, and Usually works best by making people think he's done nothing at all.

beats my guess that MitD was blackmage after a personality altering concussion

[NYYanks6083]

The lack of any intelligence or teleportation ability takes the tarrasque completely off the table as far as I'm concerned.

....maybe he read book? Hey he's hanging out with like 3 spellcasters

Nah i'm kidding, yeah the Tarrasque probably not. The Dragon idea though, I mean the MITD is still basically a kid, and no one's been really actively trying to teach him anything (besides maybe O-Chul), so it could be partly because a lack of education and still being very young(by dragon standards)

[Ron Miel]

I doubt it: Godzilla has permeated the public consciousness to the point that it has become metonymy. It is so synonymous with the concept of "giant monster" that characters in fictional works should be free to use the terms interchangeably, just like with the words "copy" and "xerox."

Actually, companies like Xerox fight like hell to prevent their names from becoming generic. If Rich wrote a storyline about a wizard named Xerox who has the power to duplicate items, then he'd certainly be sued over it. Probably the same if the wizard was called Zeerocks.

more details

[NYYanks6083]

also not a whole lot of other species have toddlers that can punch a horse through a wall

[Thrax]

I'm by no way expert in DnD or any setting's lore, so I do not know every monster in there, but as far as I've seen, there is no monster that fits all of what we know about MitD. Thus, I speculate this might be a template. Or a character classes, whatever that would change monster strongly enough. If we strip it off the template (or what-have-it), it should be something quite generic, like a bugbear, or owlbear (it's not an actual guess, just throwing out random names).

[Kish]

Supposing that's the case, it changes the question in a minuscule way rather than answering it, doesn't it? Instead of "what species is the creature in the darkness," suddenly the question is, "what template in the creature in the darkness." How is this line of speculation useful?

[Snake-Aes]

I'm by no way expert in DnD or any setting's lore, so I do not know every monster in there, but as far as I've seen, there is no monster that fits all of what we know about MitD. Thus, I speculate this might be a template. Or a character classes, whatever that would change monster strongly enough. If we strip it off the template (or what-have-it), it should be something quite generic, like a bugbear, or owlbear (it's not an actual guess, just throwing out random names).

Togepi.

<obligatory text for minimum text pre-requisites>

[Optimystik]

Probably the same if the wizard was called Zeerocks.

That, he'd probably get away with. But I see your point.

Supposing that's the case, it changes the question in a minuscule way rather than answering it, doesn't it? Instead of "what species is the creature in the darkness," suddenly the question is, "what template in the creature in the darkness." How is this line of speculation useful?

It's useful because it fits the requirements of not being a complete ass-pull while still being able to pull off the abilities that we have seen. Speculating on one particular creature is getting us nowhere, so why not start looking at templates?

I think it would be pretty funny (albeit hackneyed) if it turned out to be a pokemon. Jirachi?

[Kish]

It's useful because it fits the requirements of not being a complete ass-pull while still being able to pull off the abilities that we have seen. Speculating on one particular creature is getting us nowhere, so why not start looking at templates?

You mean exists-in-D&D templates or made-up ones? My problem with the idea of it being a template Rich made up stuck on an otherwise ordinary creature is that that would mean Rich's whole, "It is possible to guess...it isn't something I just made up for the story" is effectively not true; the important parts are something he made up and, as the evidence in the comic actively points away from whatever the base species is, it's not realistically possible to guess. Sometimes Rich forgets minor D&D rules (Stunning Fist allowing a Fortitude, not Will, save). Sometimes he deliberately changes things in minor ways (Plane Shifting succubus who energy drains with a touch of her hand and relishes combat unless she knows the enemy has a weapon that goes through her damage reduction). Yanking his readers' chains by taking an ordinary creature, sticking a template he made up on that creature, and writing, "It's possible to guess, it's not something I made up," though? That doesn't sound like Rich to me. He's a giant, not a genie.

I know effectively nothing about pokemon, so I don't know if one might fit everything the creature in the darkness has done.

[Milskidasith]

I'm just curious, but what are all the problems with the Pit Fiend theory? Besides the fact the MITD is pretty small (even though he specifically states his dad is a lot bigger) and apparantly not Evil, I don't see him being too far off from that. Then again, I don't have SoD, so I'm missing some details.

[Thrax]

I never said this template has to be made up. It might be a familiar template, on a familiar creature, but the combination of the two makes it unfamiliar.

[Meg]

Maybe he's a grue? I've always wondered if the MItD is actually female, that would be sufficiently twist-y (I actually doubt it, but hey).

[Skorj]

Skorj's updated MITD summary:

1. Is either quite strong, or has psionic abilities that mimic great strength (stomp, knock Miko through wall)
2. Has a high DR.
3. Is organic/biological (expected to devour enemies whole, enjoys eating, experiences flatulence, is aware of sexuality).
4. Is expected to be scary (by Xy, who knows scary), and has an extreme appearance (hideous or beautiful or both).
5. Has a wish-like or gate-like SLA (or psionic power), probable wish-like give his expectations about "hoping really hard".
6. Seems to need to sleep after using powerful abilities. This may be the best clue!
7. His race can be guessed from the clues provided (not something Rich made up).
8. Xy seems to expect Mitd to be both evil and tractable, (just interpretation of Xy's actions).
   
   Negatives:
9. Cannot ususally speak (or perhaps speak common)
10. Does not have amazingly high mental stats
11. Not usually found in a jungle,
12. Probably a youth so his current size may not mean much.

[Skorj]

I'm just curious, but what are all the problems with the Pit Fiend theory? Besides the fact the MITD is pretty small (even though he specifically states his dad is a lot bigger) and apparantly not Evil, I don't see him being too far off from that. Then again, I don't have SoD, so I'm missing some details.

Pit fiends don't have children. The MITD has a father (who "eats a lot").

I'm stickin with my Carniverous Giant Space Hamster theory!

[Sanguine]

Skorj's updated MITD summary:

1. Is either quite strong, or has psionic abilities that mimic great strength (stomp, knock Miko through wall)
2. Has a high DR.
3. Is organic/biological (expected to devour enemies whole, enjoys eating, experiences flatulence, is aware of sexuality).
4. Is expected to be scary (by Xy, who knows scary), and has an extreme appearance (hideous or beautiful or both).
5. Has a wish-like or gate-like SLA (or psionic power), probable wish-like give his expectations about "hoping really hard".
6. Seems to need to sleep after using powerful abilities. This may be the best clue!
7. His race can be guessed from the clues provided (not something Rich made up).
8. Xy seems to expect Mitd to be both evil and tractable, (just interpretation of Xy's actions).
   
   Negatives:
9. Cannot ususally speak (or perhaps speak common)
10. Does not have amazingly high mental stats
11. Not usually found in a jungle,
12. Probably a youth so his current size may not mean much.

I have to say Red Dragon. The wish is granted via unknown sorcerer powers(obviously has some extra level as a Dragon that size can't normally cast 9th level spell.) And IIRC a Dragons only good mental ability is Charisma(Which could easily have.) Red Dragons aren't normally found in jungles, and the rest should be self-explanatory.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I have to say Red Dragon.

Amethyst Dragon!

[Gift Jeraff]

A question whose answer may support the non-D&D creature idea: Is the MitD the only major recurring character not to mention D&D rules? I suppose that could also indicate he is some kind of hyper-dimensional being (like a Lovecraftian horror or an actual god, as some have suggested) that does not operate on the OotSverse's laws of physics (and may also explain his problem with the Gates). Or maybe it just shows his naïveté to the world around him.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Is the MitD the only major recurring character not to mention D&D rules?

Yes but his is the best roleplayer.

[lothos]

I can't imagine no one's suggested this before, so I apologize if this has already been thrown out there, but what about some kind of epic-class dragon(like a force or prismatic)? It would explain the re-god-damn-diculous strength score, and his DR would be epic, so that fits the fact that he's pretty much invulnerable, and I'm fairly certain those dragons gain spells as a sorc as they get older, so there's your teleport. Also I think both of those dragons are usually good, and the MITD has shown that he's not evil.

Just an idea...or even better, the Tarrasque? It fits the "great bull" description, and explains his strength, although the teleport not so much haha

With regard to the Prismatic Dragon idea, I was not the first to propose it (hungerer was so far as I know), but I did write up some notes on why a Prismatic Dragon might fit well here. However after some debate, Nerdanel convinced me that it's not possible.

Force Dragons don't fit too well in my opinion. As for the Tarrasque, I just don't rate it as a serious contender because the D&D source books are very clear that it's a unique, singular creature. We know MitD is part of a species from several sources both in Start of Darkness and the main strip. Of course Rich could have changed that, but it doesn't fit with this being something Rich didn't make up in my mind.

Of all the D&D monsters, I'm still kind of hoping it s a variant dread linnorm with just one head (instead of two). I proposed it here. the problem is that as Grey Wolf pointed out, they have 2 heads. Other than than [sarcasm] minor [/sarcasm] detail, it does fit quite well in my opinion.

I've combed MM1 to MM5 and read through the Epic Level Handbook. I also spent some time reading through 1st Edition AD&D books (MM, MM2 and Fiend Folio) but I've found nothing that I believe fits perfectly.

I hope it is a D&D monster, but so many good candidates have been ruled out, unless there is some crazy combination of templates applied. The only one that I haven't seen a really strong proof against is the Dream Larve, which Nerdanel suggested here (and in other posts). Though Nerdanel has argued well for the Dream Larve, I'm not convinced myself.

My opinion now is the MitD isn't a D&D Monster, but I'm yet to see a really compelling case for a monster that I'm personally familiar with. I jokingly proposed a Vorlon from Babylon 5 here and if you want to join the "Vorlon in the Darkness" fan club, you need only copy my signature. Remember, we are all Kosh.

Whatever MitD is, I'd like to re-predict that I believe MitD will somehow meet another of his species (perhaps even his dad) in Kraagor's tomb at the final gate, right towards the end of the strip. This is based on strip 277 where it says:
"She [Serini] decided she would fill it [Kraagor's Tomb] with the nastiest monsters in the world, to reflect his belief in the power of physical might".

In my opinion, it would just fit the tone of the story well if MitD were to meet another of his kind in that Tomb, come to understand what/who he is and then decide to save the day when Xykon is on the threshold of defeating team good.

[factotum]

I jokingly proposed a Vorlon from Babylon 5 here and if you want to join the "Vorlon in the Darkness" fan club, you need only copy my signature. Remember, we are all Kosh.

Nah, doesn't fit the "My dad was much bigger than I am" and the always-hungry part...

(Did we ever actually SEE a Vorlon eat? What the heck does a being composed of pure energy do for fuel? ).