Worst "VS" Arguments You've Heard?

[Comet]

God that's so ridiculous it's not even laughable. What did they do, deflect bullets?

They actually cut the bullets in half with their swords.

Edit: As for the topic of VS arguments, I find them rather pointless. I don't really care which fictional character would win, just flip a coin and call it a day.
Instead of focusing on who would win, I tend to imagine the most awesome draws possible. That's the only way to be faithful to all the characters involved, I think.
It doesn't matter who wins. What matters is how absolutely cool it would look if Samus Aran faced off against EU Boba Fett or whathaveyou.

[AstralFire]

They actually cut the bullets in half with their swords.

Hiten Mitsurugi Style... Boba Eenuh Kurrappu-ken!

[Dervag]

Instead of focusing on who would win, I tend to imagine the most awesome draws possible. That's the only way to be faithful to all the characters involved, I think.
It doesn't matter who wins. What matters is how absolutely cool it would look if Samus Aran faced off against EU Boba Fett or whathaveyou.

This is a course of wisdom.
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Trek Vs Wars threads should probably be kept to narrow areas- i.e-
"if a division of 1000 federation troopers with phaser rifles, went up against a division of 1000 Republic Clone Troopers, who would win?"
or:
"If a federation starship went up against an Imperial one of similar length and mass, which would be expected to win?"

This would be wise. Unfortunately, it would still cause all the general issues to crop up: disagreements about the effects of phasers and blasters, about whether Star Trek shields can take gigaton-range punishment, about whether it is possible for Star Trek ships to attack effectively while in FTL...
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Wait, then why do people in Star Wars keep insisting to fight melee battles with laser sticks???

That always has been one thing that confused me about star wars.

Because the only ones stupid enough to do it are also the only ones with physics-defying abilities that allow them to use the aforesaid laser sticks deflect blaster fire.

If I were a guy who could deflect bullets, and if someone offered me a sword that could both deflect bullets and cut through virtually anything... I might just take them up on it.
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Ooooo! Ooooo! I just remembered the worst one I've ever read! Rather than admit that the Galactic Empire has medical technology more advanced than the Federation...

To be fair, the Federation has some really impressive medical technology, as demonstrated by the fact that their starship crews are not dead or sterile. Their ability to treat things like radiation poisoning and esoteric diseases is so great that they can explore space, which in their setting is "disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence," to quote McCoy from the new Trek movie... without benefit of any reliable NBC protection in the form of gas masks, radiation armor, or biohazard suits.

So while Star Wars might be marginally ahead in terms of things like repairs to the central nervous system or prosthetic grafts, it's not an area where there's a gross disparity between the two sides.
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Seriously though, the Jedi could use their powers far more effectively than they do.

Yes. A big part of the reason that they don't is because they're a religious cult, and so are the Sith. They're process-oriented, not goal-oriented. In many cases, achieving a goal such as "maximum combat effectiveness" would force them to compromise on philosophical issues. And since it's their philosophy that (by all appearances) lets them master the Force in the first place, I can't say they're wrong to refuse such compromises.
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the most common excuse for their lack of accuracy on the Death Star is "they were ordered to ensure that Luke and company would escape" despite lack of support for this in the novelization and Death Star novel- Leia's comments about the ease of their escape seem to be more about the Tie fighters.

Thing is, how would it make sense to let them escape the Death Star itself easily after taking off... without letting them escape the detention block in the first place? Why order the TIE fighters to make an ineffectual pursuit if you're going to order the stormtroopers to shoot to kill?

And it still doesn't account for the Mos Eisley scene, though that could be main-cast immunity.

I think it has to be. The same stormtroopers were fairly effective when boarding Leia's ship in the opening scene.

[WristWatchMafia]

If I were a guy who could deflect bullets, and if someone offered me a sword that could both deflect bullets and cut through virtually anything... I might just take them up on it.

According to wookieepedia, Jedi can't deflect bullets.

[factotum]

To be fair, the Federation has some really impressive medical technology, as demonstrated by the fact that their starship crews are not dead or sterile. Their ability to treat things like radiation poisoning and esoteric diseases is so great that they can explore space, which in their setting is "disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence," to quote McCoy from the new Trek movie... without benefit of any reliable NBC protection in the form of gas masks, radiation armor, or biohazard suits.

Er, what? I believe we've sent dozens of people into space in real life and none of them has come back to earth sterile--some of the real long term guys on the Russian Mir station were there for months! Yes, there is radiation in space, but those people are flying around in tin cans that are designed to keep the radiation on the side of the hull where it's dark and vacuum-y. Same in Star Trek, so no reason whatsoever why their medical technology has to be better than today's just because they're in space!

[Dienekes]

God that's so ridiculous it's not even laughable. What did they do, deflect bullets?

One of them showed me to the clip where a katana cuts a bullet in half (of course under perfectly mathematical conditions) and then went on to claim they did that, because they were so well trained. (edit: they also used this to claim that because they could cut a bullet in half they could cut through plate armor) This was in real life so I bring some of my books on the subject of feudal japan and show them the section on the inclusion of guns and how it nullified the rigorous caste system.

They said the author got it wrong.

It was then that I went to find new people to talk to.

[darkblade]

Same in Star Trek, so no reason whatsoever why their medical technology has to be better than today's just because they're in space!

There is the whole "Diagnose everything by waving a tricorder at the patient" thing they got going that suggests their medical technology is slightly ahead of ours.

[GoC]

Because the only ones stupid enough to do it are also the only ones with physics-defying abilities that allow them to use the aforesaid laser sticks deflect blaster fire.

If I were a guy who could deflect bullets, and if someone offered me a sword that could both deflect bullets and cut through virtually anything... I might just take them up on it.

*cough*triblaster*cough*

[Yoren]

One of them showed me to the clip where a katana cuts a bullet in half (of course under perfectly mathematical conditions) and then went on to claim they did that, because they were so well trained.

I've seen a demonstration where a Samurai Grand Master cut an arrow, shot at him by one of his students, in half, and it was pretty damn impressive. But I just can't see even the quickest sword master being able to cut a bullet since it is so much smaller and travels so much faster, than an arrow.

[tyckspoon]

I've seen a demonstration where a Samurai Grand Master cut an arrow, shot at him by one of his students, in half, and it was pretty damn impressive. But I just can't see even the quickest sword master being able to cut a bullet since it is so much smaller and travels so much faster, than an arrow.

Do you recall whether he actually cut the arrowhead, or did he just step aside and cut the shaft? I would have quite a lot of trouble believing he pulled that off by striking head-on at the arrow, but if he was just *responding* to an arrow, well, there was a Mythbuster's episode about that... (a responsive enough human with very accurate timing can indeed do something to an arrow in flight, at least according to their test rig.) But as you noted that means absolutely nothing with regard to said human's ability to respond to a bullet.

[Dienekes]

I think I've seen what he's talking about. The swordmaster makes a diagonal cut across his body that slices the shaft in two. The force of the blow + that the arrow is now imbalanced causes the head side to spin away while the bamboo shaft nicks him harmlessly. It is very impressive. But they did not cut the arrowhead and he could never hit a bullet.

[Thrawn183]

Never is a long time folks.

I mean, I managed to shoot a dart from a dart gun out of the air with another dart gun. It just took a while.

[Kalbron]

Can a katana made up of modern materials cut through a bullet? Sure can. Search youtube and you'll eventually run into a clip where they fired some sort of machinegun at one. Split the bullet and dented the blade.

Can a human react fast enough to move their blade into the path of a bullet that they weren't sure was coming and where it will go exactly? Doubtful. There would be a lot of corpses before someone lucked out and succeeded I would imagine, and even then there's the second shot.

Can someone performing a staged experiment where they simply pull the above-mentioned machinegun trick except with a human holding a blade, cut a bullet? Ayup. Pretty stupid to do, but possible.

[horngeek]

Yeah, saying a Katana can really deflect bullets is like saying Ninja can really pull off the "Ninja Log" trick.

[mikeejimbo]

For some reason, it bugs me when Willow gets pulled into things. I mean, I don't really like how she always seems to win, but Alyson Hannigan is hot enough that I kinda want her to win anyway.

[Zevox]

Can a human react fast enough to move their blade into the path of a bullet that they weren't sure was coming and where it will go exactly? Doubtful. There would be a lot of corpses before someone lucked out and succeeded I would imagine, and even then there's the second shot.

I seem to recall a Mythbusters episode where they found it was impossible for a human to react fast enough to catch an arrow. (Checked Wikipedia: yup, in the 2007 season, during an episode testing ninja myths.) Given that, and running under the probably very safe assumption that a bullet travels a lot faster than an arrow, I think it would be pretty safe to say that a human actually reacting fasting enough to cut a bullet is completely impossible.

Hell, even if it were, the pieces of the bullet should still be traveling plenty fast enough afterwards to do some serious harm to the lucky idiot who did it anyway.

Zevox

[V'icternus]

For some reason, it bugs me when Willow gets pulled into things. I mean, I don't really like how she always seems to win, but Alyson Hannigan is hot enough that I kinda want her to win anyway.

Dragging Willow into things is just cheating.


Willow: *Waves hand*

Person fighting Willow: *Is stranded, naked and skinless, on Mars. While on fire.*

You know, unless they went with Willow from, say, Season 1...


Willow: *Runs*

Person fighting Willow: *Chases, gets killed by Willow's friends*


Just take away her friends, and you're golden.



...What, no one expected that I was a Buffy fan?

[mikeejimbo]

Dragging Willow into things is just cheating.

Ah, but what if the competition were... a Beauty Contest!

[Kalbron]

Hell, even if it were, the pieces of the bullet should still be traveling plenty fast enough afterwards to do some serious harm to the lucky idiot who did it anyway.

In a way, that gives rise to the disturbing, yet hilarious, proposition that someone is about to be hit in the chest with a bullet, cuts it in half with their sword, and the two deflected pieces proceed to pierce through both the sword wielder's lungs with their remaining momentum.

They succeeded in the impossible, and just made things a hell of a lot worse for themselves.

[X2]

I read on a forum archive a possible vs of Gizmo Duck and Darkwing Duck.

God, that was the most pathetic debate ever.

[Sholos]

I seem to recall a Mythbusters episode where they found it was impossible for a human to react fast enough to catch an arrow. (Checked Wikipedia: yup, in the 2007 season, during an episode testing ninja myths.) Given that, and running under the probably very safe assumption that a bullet travels a lot faster than an arrow, I think it would be pretty safe to say that a human actually reacting fasting enough to cut a bullet is completely impossible.

Hell, even if it were, the pieces of the bullet should still be traveling plenty fast enough afterwards to do some serious harm to the lucky idiot who did it anyway.

Zevox

As a note, it is not impossible for a human being to catch an arrow in flight. Just really, really hard, but it has been done. Relevant part around 4:50

[WristWatchMafia]

Given that, and running under the probably very safe assumption that a bullet travels a lot faster than an arrow

To clarify, an arrow vs. an equivalent gun (i.e.- a rifle), the bullet is going roughly 15 times faster.

Arrow vs. oldy western handgun is merely 5 times faster.


So with Jedi-like reflexes it might well be possible to stop a bullet. Now all we need to do is experiment on Samurai to uncover their midichlorian levels.

[Zevox]

As a note, it is not impossible for a human being to catch an arrow in flight. Just really, really hard, but it has been done. Relevant part around 4:50

Interesting - I can only speculate that that guy is in even better condition, with even faster reflexes, than the martial-arts guy that the Mythbusters used as an example of a human in top condition. Even that, though, is with the hand already in position to catch the arrow, and all the movement that is required is to close it as fast as he could once the arrow was fired. Not something that could be done in a situation where an arrow is actually being shot at a guy. And WristWatchMafia just told us that bullets travel 5 times that fast even with old west technology. Yeah, still plenty to safe to say that reacting fast enough to cut a bullet is far beyond human capability.

Zevox

[Yoren]

As a note, it is not impossible for a human being to catch an arrow in flight. Just really, really hard, but it has been done. Relevant part around 4:50

Was that proven true? I'm don't have that much experience with archery but the trajectory of the arrow looked off in the slow mo.

If it is real that is pretty damn impressive . . . especially the blindfolded arrow snatch.

[Stormthorn]

Was that proven true? I'm don't have that much experience with archery but the trajectory of the arrow looked off in the slow mo.

If it is real that is pretty damn impressive . . . especially the blindfolded arrow snatch.

Hmm. I cant tell. I went by his arrow catch blindfolded one frame at a time (as best i can on youtube) but due to the framerate it goes form being offscreen to already being deflected between frames. If i could see more of it in flight i could tell if it was flying correctly.

I read on a forum archive a possible vs of Gizmo Duck and Darkwing Duck

That is solid awesome. Although the logic in the argument may have been bad. I dont know, since you didnt cite any.

[Fri]

I read on a forum archive a possible vs of Gizmo Duck and Darkwing Duck.

God, that was the most pathetic debate ever.

if by pathetic you mean awesome, yes, it's the most pathetic debate ever.

[Gralamin]

So while Star Wars might be marginally ahead in terms of things like repairs to the central nervous system or prosthetic grafts, it's not an area where there's a gross disparity between the two sides.

And this makes perfect sense, since Star Wars is famous for, well, Wars, and Star Trek is famous for exploration. Guess what encourages Prosthetic research more then any other single factor? If you said War (especially veterans), you are correct. In addition, its a lot easier to do Prosthetics when the universe does not have a major problems with clones, such as the Federation do.

On the flip side, your exploring planets that may contain dangerous toxins and other hazards. Whats going to be advance for you? Oh right, what Star Trek Medical is specialized in.

I wouldn't say either are more advance then the other, but both are well-suited for their genre, and when it comes down to it in a fight, the Star Wars Medical research is better adapted to war.

Edit: Right on topic.

I don't read vs Threads, so I don't have much to give, except that in Real Life I know someone who insists Katana's are Lightsabers. Next time It comes up I'll tell him to cut a steel bar in half with a Katana effortlessly, like you can with a lightsaber.

[Kalbron]

The worst part of the katana vs everything arguments is when they claim that old style samurai with their finely traditionally crafted Japanese iron swords could cut through anything.

There's a very good reason why Japanese swordsmiths had to fold the metal over and over and over again, and it's because their iron is of a horrible quality, not because it grants mystical superpowers. If they hadn't folded it it probably would have easily shattered on impact with anything harder than flesh.

[Drascin]

I read on a forum archive a possible vs of Gizmo Duck and Darkwing Duck.

God, that was the most pathetic debate ever.

You have a real weird definition of pathetic. I've never seen anyone use pathetic as a synonym to awesome .

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Probably one of the worst ones I've seen was one I started on another forum. Now, the concept was sort of silly, but that was the point, I didn't expect one side to win, really I expected people to say it would end in a draw since neither side could defeat the other. Some people disagreed.

The VS was Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann against the Cthulhu Mythos.