What's my game?

[Paganboy28]

A thought occurs to me which is possibly beer-induced but I will write it anyway....

I am currently playing D&D 3.5, which is ok but there is something about it which just nags at my rpg core:

1) the class system is unbalanced and lends itself to staggered progression rather than a feeling of gradual flowing progression, plus it also pidgeon-holes PC's into specific roles which leads to min/maxing and almost cardboard-cutout characters.

2) the magic system is just broken and makes higher level casters game-breaking without either DM intervention or thick players.


I have also played various WoD games but again I am left feeling something is missing. The way the disciplines/powers scale and at each level you get to do something new just didn't feel right as again it makes characters feel at times uniform as every Ventrue would have the same disciplines and as such you knew what to expect. I didn't see why these powers had to scale like they did and why you couldn't just pick and choose which level you particularly wanted. That way you could have lots of cheap powers or few high level powers. I did like the feeling of having HUGE dice pools as there was something satisfying about rolling 20 or so d10's rather than one d20.

I've played Mutants and Masterminds. Character creation is extremely flexible with loads of options and such, ok so its d20 which has good and bad points. However without DM scrutiny and careful manipulation characters could become niegh-on invinsible without resorting to "extreme" measures. So again this left me with a slight "meh" feeling.

Unknown Armies was completely different but the way magic worked to activate abilities was far far to slow for my liking and just left me feeling like an average human who, if lucky, would be able to do something odd maybe once every 2 weeks.

The Warhammer Fantasy Battles (original) was ok but it suffered from the same class system as D&D and the magic was too component orientated to seem to make it worthwhile.


So I ask... what other sort of game might I find suits me?

[Doc Roc]

So I'm a HUGE proponent of Savage Worlds, but I actually don't think 3.5 is unsalvageable by any means.

You, however, will really adore Shadowrun Fourth Edition, an elegant and excellent game with probably the most intense character customization on offer without delving into madness.

[Paganboy28]

So I'm a HUGE proponent of Savage Worlds, but I actually don't think 3.5 is unsalvageable by any means.

You, however, will really adore Shadowrun Fourth Edition, an elegant and excellent game with probably the most intense character customization on offer without delving into madness.

I'm being a bit lazy, but can you (or anyone) give me a breakdown of:

1) the genre
2) the setting
3) mechanics


Don't want huge details but just an overview.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'll probably be read the Riot Act for this, but I'd like to suggest 4th Edition D&D. It eliminates a lot of the issues that are keeping you from enjoying 3.5 Edition, making it a lot more well-balanced.

Personally I think we need more people interested in 4e. All the 4e games I've joined here on GiantITP have fallen through, and IRL I can't find a 4e game unless I run it myself, and DMing is not my strong point.

[Doc Roc]

Savage worlds is a fully generic system that is mid-to-lightweight, and runs on a sliding die character advancement mechanic combined with a roll-at-or-over mechanic, a target number of four and a system for gradated success, as well as exploding dice.


Shadowrun 4th edition is a D6 system with success on a 5\6, using a roll and tally method of tracking degree of success. It's a non-generic heavyweight system dedicated to a Cyberpunk+Magipunk setting involving a lot of grime and violence. It's set on a 20-minutes-into-the-future earth, and is a hell of a lot of fun.

[Paganboy28]

I'll probably be read the Riot Act for this, but I'd like to suggest 4th Edition D&D. It eliminates a lot of the issues that are keeping you from enjoying 3.5 Edition, making it a lot more well-balanced.

Personally I think we need more people interested in 4e. All the 4e games I've joined here on GiantITP have fallen through, and IRL I can't find a 4e game unless I run it myself, and DMing is not my strong point.

I have the 4ed D&D rulebook and have read through it. It seems ok, though its become very dungeon-based and not so much roleplay based. I still like the roleplay aspect and having skills and all the other bits and bobs that flesh out a character other than its combat prowess.

[Kylarra]

Scion might be up your alley. Not the most balanced of systems, but it's another Storyteller game by WW.

Genre is demigods fighting other supernatural things ranging from, other demigods on opposing missions, titanspawn (aka everything mythological that's not direct godspawn), various things influenced by either of the former, or whatever your divine parent wants you to do.

http://wiki.white-wolf.com/whitewolf...hp?title=Scion

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I have the 4ed D&D rulebook and have read through it. It seems ok, though its become very dungeon-based and not so much roleplay based. I still like the roleplay aspect and having skills and all the other bits and bobs that flesh out a character other than its combat prowess.

That's still there, you just don't need to attach stats to it. I personally don't like having my character being unable to play music or something because I haven't put skill points into a particular skill that my character didn't already need.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

You can play music without putting skillpoints into it. You just don't play it as well as someone who has.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

What about writing poetry and the like? There's no skill for that.

[Yukitsu]

What about writing poetry and the like? There's no skill for that.

There is an implication in I believe complete scoundrel that composition of things that can be performed (stories, music, poems) fall into craft.

[Kylarra]

Alternatively since poetry recitations and storytelling fall under Perform (oratory) I doubt a DM would deny extending that skill to the actual writing of said epics down, albeit that being slightly less intuitive.

[Paganboy28]

Back on topic....


Scion sounds interesting. Always fancied being a demigod with hordes of worshipping minions.

I'll have to take a look.

[Thajocoth]

D&D 4th Ed does solve most of those issues, but it does still have the pigeon-hole problem. That problem's actually increased by my experience. It's not an issue I, personally, care about, so I prefer 4th ed.

Also... Singing in 4th ed would fall under Diplomacy most likely. It's situation dependent. It'd be Nature instead if you're trying to calm down a beast with it. (Dancing -> Acrobatics, ect... ect...) If it's not a situation in which you actually need a check though, why roll? At least, that's how the groups I've played with have always interpreted the skill rules.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

What about writing poetry and the like? There's no skill for that.

Craft: Poetry!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

D&D 4th Ed does solve most of those issues, but it does still have the pigeon-hole problem. That problem's actually increased by my experience. It's not an issue I, personally, care about, so I prefer 4th ed.

Also... Singing in 4th ed would fall under Diplomacy most likely. It's situation dependent. It'd be Nature instead if you're trying to calm down a beast with it. (Dancing -> Acrobatics, ect... ect...) If it's not a situation in which you actually need a check though, why roll? At least, that's how the groups I've played with have always interpreted the skill rules.

Who said anything about using it in combat scenarios. I'm just talking about something like a cleric who likes to sing hymns to his god instead of praying, or a rogue who likes to cook or something!

[Thajocoth]

Who said anything about using it in combat scenarios. I'm just talking about something like a cleric who likes to sing hymns to his god instead of praying, or a rogue who likes to cook or something!

Then you don't need a roll. Besides, I didn't say anything about combat. Here's an example from a session of a fairly recent game I was in: There was a sort of festival with various games. Archery, jousting, a dance contest, a drinking contest, a music-playing contest... We each picked one to join. For the drinking contest, our party member rolled Endurance checks. For the dance contest, our party member rolled a diplomacy check to see what sort of partner he could get (effecting his later rolls), then rolled acrobatics checks.

You get the idea. But being competitions, you need rolls. For just singing while walking or whatever, you only need to say you do so. There's no reason to roll if a 1 and a 20 are the same result.

[Mathius]

If you want to play some games that give you a ton of customization, I suggest some of the Palladium Systems. I will grant that Rifts is on the higher side of powergames, but with the right equipment and forethought there is no limit to what you can do. The combat system (for guns) is fast and furious, and the melee attack system is in depth and tactical. I suggest limiting the book choices (as there are a ton of them) to the North America (not Canada) and you should be just fine. Character creation is long and arduous the first time around, but you will get the hang of it and it is a really fun world. It's post-apocalyptic (about 100-200 years in the future, It never really tells us). There is high technology but only in the pockets of civilization. There are races of every kind and description.

Palladium Fantasy is a great selection as well. It has a lot of the D&D elements but allows for more freedom. All in all, Palladium is a great system to use if you tire of D&D.

There is also the BESM games if you just want to throw it all off and play for fun. The tri-stat version is by far the easiest game I have ever found. You can literally build ANYTHING you want. There is a D20 version if you don't want to abandon your D&D roots.

Hope that helps.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Play Mutants & Masterminds with people who aren't *****, or a GM who likes to scrutinize things.

Alternatively, 4th Ed D&D really does fix most of your complaints about 3.5.

[Paganboy28]

D'oh... just read about Scion.

You are still sort of human, just with "powers". I thought it was that you were a demigod with uber powers and lots of minions. Unless I read it wrong...

The search continues....

[Arakune]

D'oh... just read about Scion.

You are still sort of human, just with "powers". I thought it was that you were a demigod with uber powers and lots of minions. Unless I read it wrong...

The search continues....

After a while that become true. You are not going to like it, though.

[horus42]

After a while that become true. You are not going to like it, though.

After a while, you become a full fledged god in and of yourself. But most gods stay out of day to day affairs of the world, since even the gods have to answer to Fate, and having tons of mortal worshipers means lots of fatebinding. Lots of fatebinding means lots more stuff you lose control over. In fact, Fatebindings are why Ragnarok can't be avoided anymore.

On a side note, did I cover why you think he won't like it, or is there another reason?

[Glimbur]

GURPS is an option. Magic can be used for a variety of things but isn't as broken as 3.5 (not much of a benchmark, I know), there are options in melee, and there are no classes.

I'm not as familiar with the current edition, but the system supported a swords and sorcery game last edition. It also supports cave men and space faring, but that's neither here nor there.

Savage Worlds is more rules light than GURPS and is also flexible enough for a variety of settings. I haven't seen the magic system, but they handle super heroes/villains fairly well.

[Raum]

So I ask... what other sort of game might I find suits me?

What do you want in a game? That may help more than what you dislike. Do you want a detailed system? A light system? Looking for gritty, pulp, or over the top combat? Do you want the system to define social interaction? What else are you looking for in a game?

If you want something where you can play a demigod, you might check out Wild Talents / Godlike, Exalted, or Unisystem's Armageddon. Of the three, I prefer Armageddon but YMMV.

[Mad Wizard]

I think you would enjoy Burning Wheel. I could spend quite a while trying to explain it, but I think you can get the gist of it from the wikipedia article.