Reprinting and pre-orders

[fizzel]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and the webcomic, so please let me know if the idea I just had was already discussed and discarded for practical issues previously.

I just discovered the webcomic, and I would like to order the print issues, to have the extra content, to have it in paper form and last but not least to help sustaining the author.
Only, being one of those completist people that must have only complete collections, I find really troubling having to order only some of the issues, and having to wait for a reprint who knows when.
I could order on Amazon or in some other used shops, but there the price reach 50 if not even 100$ for each book, it is quite inefficient for delivery to Europe, and moreover our host would not see a dime of those money.

Now, I understand that the author can't simply reprint the issues without being reasonably sure of selling them, as the minimal size of a print run need some investment... and I also know that recently there've been some issues with the print shop that took care of the previous books.

So, as a possible solution to both my (and others, I assume) need of having the books reprinted, and our host necessity of making only financially wise moves, whay can't we set up a pre-order system for reprintings?

We interested readers could make a reservation for the books, and then, if (when) the reservations become sufficient, the giant could proceed printing it with an almost assured number of sales.
I don't know how many would be willing and if it would be worth the hassle, but I myself would be willing to advance the payment for it, and wait all the necessary time for the reprint, so to avoid those kind of people that give their availability and then retract it when it's the moment...

[Zerg Cookie]

Would you pay now for a book you might only get in a couple of years?
If you just "sign up" to pay, there's no guarantee you will
Keeping your credit info to charge you when the book is shipped will bait hacker attacks on ookoodook to get all those credit infos

It's either bad for us, for Rich, or for everyone involved

[Caractacus]

Would you pay now for a book you might only get in a couple of years?
If you just "sign up" to pay, there's no guarantee you will
Keeping your credit info to charge you when the book is shipped will bait hacker attacks on ookoodook to get all those credit infos

It's either bad for us, for Rich, or for everyone involved

Unless, he doesn't mind paying up front. I would do it. But then, I already have all the books, so I guess that's easy for me to say...

[NerfTW]

There's a long list of reasons why that's a bad idea. Either he charges you ahead of time and then has to keep the money safe and account for it (You can't just shove it in an account and ignore it, there are accounting laws you have to follow) or he has to keep your card information on file until such a time as the pre-order is placed.

The latter results in a whole set of precautions and security that needs to be in place. A larger company can take the chance that this information is hacked, a small company would go under from the fines and penalties.

Plus, you're talking a span of YEARS between reprints. There's rules against holding financial data that long as well.

Finally, we're currently seeing the worst case scenario of what can happen with a pre-order right now with the SS&DT book, so besides Ookookdook saying they are unlikely to ever do one again, I think everyone here would rather not go through this much uncertainty with another order.

-edit- that's not quite true, I can think of one that's worse. Supposedly, the Acts of Gord book took people's money for 3 years and refused to refund it, but that was a deliberate act by the seller, I'm referring to worst case that's out of the seller's control.

[fizzel]

Ok, I would not have actually minded paying up front and simply waiting the necessary time, but I realize that from an accounting point of view it may be more troubling that's worth.

But even if a pre-paid system would be too expensive, at least a statement-of-intention statistic system could be useful. Clearly you could not take the results of such a system as pure gold, but still could give some ideas on the level of demand for a reprint, and help in programming for it.

[Caractacus]

Ok, I would not have actually minded paying up front and simply waiting the necessary time, but I realize that from an accounting point of view it may be more troubling that's worth.

That is what I meant - I am lucky enough at the moment to not have to count my money, so i would pay and wait years. If accounting systems are a problem, that's another thing. But no credit card info need be retained as I would pay up front in full.

But even if a pre-paid system would be too expensive, at least a statement-of-intention statistic system could be useful. Clearly you could not take the results of such a system as pure gold, but still could give some ideas on the level of demand for a reprint, and help in programming for it.

So one would imagine. But the real problem is that Rich has pointed out that the up-front costs are very high for him, so perhaps even one failed book might throw his finances into disarray...

It's a shame. Mind you, I took part in a Kickstarter.com drive for that Australian Pratchett film and maybe something similar could work here...?

[NerfTW]

Ok, I would not have actually minded paying up front and simply waiting the necessary time, but I realize that from an accounting point of view it may be more troubling that's worth.

But even if a pre-paid system would be too expensive, at least a statement-of-intention statistic system could be useful. Clearly you could not take the results of such a system as pure gold, but still could give some ideas on the level of demand for a reprint, and help in programming for it.

That doesn't fix the issue of upfront costs. It's not an issue of lack of interest, it's lack of funds. He knows he'll sell out of whatever book he prints. He needs the income from selling other products first.

It's a shame. Mind you, I took part in a Kickstarter.com drive for that Australian Pratchett film and maybe something similar could work here...?

Can you imagine the firestorm that would erupt over the current schedule if people were giving him donations? I wouldn't even donate money, and I love this comic. But accepting any sort of donations creates a bit of an expectation (in fact, a major expectation for most people) to actually put up the comic. As it is now, we pay for merchandise, and that's what we get. There's no obligation on his part to continue the comic if the situation worsens.

With donations, what happens if he can't continue the comic? What if something changes? Does he give back the money that was donated? Kickstarter is basically donations and pre-orders combined. The obligations would be immense. And I've seen more than one webcomic have the gall to do a donation drive while updating once every 4 months. It just causes upset readers.

[Caractacus]

Wow! Updating every 4 months? That's pretty slow...

I won't ask which comic, but it certainly makes me want to know...

[OnlineDM]

That doesn't fix the issue of upfront costs. It's not an issue of lack of interest, it's lack of funds. He knows he'll sell out of whatever book he prints. He needs the income from selling other products first.

I don't know Rich personally, but I believe he has some good business sense. Thus, I sincerely doubt it's true that "He know's he'll sell out of whatever book he prints."

If that were the case, let's think it through (note that I'm completely making up numbers here, though that doesn't really matter).

Let's say his typical print run for an OotS book is, say 5,000 copies.

Let's say the book will retail for $30 (US).

Let's say Rich's cost per book for this run is $15 (I'd hope it was far less, but you never know).

So, if Rich had his 5,000 books and knew he could sell them all, he's got $150,000 in sales coming his way ($75,000 of which will be profit), if only he could first get the $75,000 it will cost to print the book.

There's such a thing in our world as a business loan.

Let's say Rich would need to borrow at the insanely high rate of 10%. Let's say he'd need this loan for a year (an unrealistically long time if he's going to sell out quickly, but let's go with it). Rich could borrow the $75,000, pay the printer, get the books, sell them for $150,000, and pay off the loan for $82,500 ($75,000 principal, $7,500 for one year of interest). That's a nice little profit of $67,500.

I don't know about you, but if KNEW I could make nearly 70 grand in profit by getting a loan, I'd go get that loan!

And if it's only a tenth of that (a print run of 500 instead of 5,000), there's still nearly $7,000 in profit waiting to be snagged, and Rich could probably pay the printer with his credit card or something, not even bothering with the paperwork of a bank loan.

Thus, my opinion: Rich has significant uncertainty about how many books he'll be able to sell. Until he has enough money in the bank to pay for most of the print run without worrying about loans, he's holding off.

And if I'm wrong, Rich, drop me a line - I'll help you with the loan paperwork! No cut of the profit necessary - I just want to buy books 2 and 3 for retail price!

[deworde]

I could order on Amazon or in some other used shops, but there the price reach 50 if not even 100$ for each book, it is quite inefficient for delivery to Europe, and moreover our host would not see a dime of those money.

Word of Advice? Try some local comic book stores. I recently saw the entire series for sale in Travelling Man in Newcastle (UK). Certain stores have remainder copies from the first publishing.

[Studoku]

Ignore the price on places like Amazon. This is caused by certain websites updating their price automatically based on the price of their competitors- eg setting their price to 105% so they can purchase from a competitor and resell for a profit. The problem occurs when two sites do this. Raising one price raises the other, which raises the first price and they spiral out of control.

Keep looking. I found my copies of Dungeon Crawling Fools and Paladin Blues in Forbidden Planet by accident. There's also eBay- I am considering selling my compilation books because I'm unemployed and need the money.