Things you never noticed

[Elan's Modron]

I said this on another thread awhile ago, but -
Eve & Larry from (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0135.html)

have equally mathematically-challenged counterparts on the Western Continent (first-panel)
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0677.html)

~EM

[Forbiddenwar]

I said this on another thread awhile ago, but -
Eve & Larry from (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0135.html)

have equally mathematically-challenged counterparts on the Western Continent (first-panel)
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0677.html)

~EM

I don't see it. Larry and eve had a problem with math (spending more money to make a product than what they were selling it for) and other the couple had a problem with the rules of the game (not math) also they don't look anything alike.

[Forbiddenwar]

I just recognized two people in this strip.
The diviner is Saangwan (Yes I know that's obvious... )
And the old man is the wise old man from this strip.

there is no man in the strip you linked. Perhaps you meant this strip.

[Elan's Modron]

I don't see it. Larry and eve had a problem with math (spending more money to make a product than what they were selling it for) and other the couple had a problem with the rules of the game (not math) also they don't look anything alike.

Physically: different skin tones, but same facial hair/hairstyles (or lack there of.)

Conceptually: A male/female twosome, in a store selling magical supplies, completely not understanding how basic pricing works??

Furthermore- if the Western Continent twosome weren't nods to Larry & Eve, why would they be there? Their joke is only so-so funny if they're not counterparts, but much funnier if they ARE- it would be a weird throwaway gag otherwise, IMHO...

[Shale]

The joke is that, under a literal reading of the rules, he's right - D&D measures jewels and spell components in value, not size or weight, so you can read that rule as saying that the Hope Diamond, if purchased for 1 gp, becomes 1 gp worth of diamonds.

Which isn't to say it's necessarily coincidence that Burlew used an old man with a goatee paired with a young woman with shoulder-length hair to poke fun at the economics of magic items, but, well, see my sig.

[Magnema]

there is no man in the strip you linked. Perhaps you meant this strip.

Ayup.Good for you if you find this!

[Puns de León]

The camel trader who thanks Roy is also seen at the onset of the beetle attack in 683.

[Ted The Bug]

"He likes it! Mikey likes it!" is a reference to this, I think.

[mofabulous]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0405.html

Mr Scruffy walks towards Belkar in the 7th panel and in the 8th panel Belkar is petting him while Shojo and Roy talk. Never noticed that the first time I read the comic.

Just another one of those foreshadowing things that Rich does for the comic. Minor event, but it was part of how Mr Scruffy became Belkars animal companion.

Damn Rich is amazing.

[NerfTW]

Not to dissuade praise to a good writer, but seriously, this "Rich is amazing because he understands basic principles of foreshadowing, which I've never seen because I only read fan fiction and bad webcomics" is getting a bit overblown.


Yes, he's a good writer. This is what good writers do. It's not really that amazing that when one has a plot mapped out, they make sure to properly foreshadow it.

[mofabulous]

Come on man. These things are so random at the time, but later are often huge events. When you first read the comic who would think anything about Mr Scruffy and Belkar bonding? Seriously? That was what a hundred strips before Belkar found him in the sewers beneath the city.

Thats some FAR ranging foreshadowing. In fact its strip 516 ( from 405 ) that is where Belkar finds Mr Scruffy. How many storytellers plan such a minor detail like that for their story? If you can't see how thats some serious detail planning then your blind.

[Mystic Muse]

Come on man. These things are so random at the time, but later are often huge events. When you first read the comic who would think anything about Mr Scruffy and Belkar bonding? Seriously? That was what a hundred strips before Belkar found him in the sewers beneath the city.

Thats some FAR ranging foreshadowing. In fact its strip 516 ( from 405 ) that is where Belkar finds Mr Scruffy. How many storytellers plan such a minor detail like that for their story? If you can't see how thats some serious detail planning then your blind.

I question whether this is actual foreshadowing. It may in fact be totally random.

[Shale]

I don't doubt that it's foreshadowing, I just don't see how it's anything special for something plotted like OotS is. Rich isn't making the strip up as he goes along, and anybody who's in a similar position, coming up with a story arc and then publishing it over a period of years, has any number of opportunities to throw in little tidbits like that.

[spargel]

Thats some FAR ranging foreshadowing. In fact its strip 516 ( from 405 ) that is where Belkar finds Mr Scruffy. How many storytellers plan such a minor detail like that for their story? If you can't see how thats some serious detail planning then your blind.

Thought Process:

I'm going to kill off Shojo in a couple of strips.
What am I going to do with the cat?
I'll just give it to Belkar for some reason.
Now to insert some minor foreshadowing.

If it's foreshadowing, it's pretty simplistic.

[DBJack]

Thought Process:

I'm going to kill off Shojo in a couple of strips.
What am I going to do with the cat?
I'll just give it to Belkar for some reason.
Now to insert some minor foreshadowing.

If it's foreshadowing, it's pretty simplistic.

Why make a deal about the cat? No one noticed Mr. Scruffy was even really gone until he returned. Mr. Scruffy was needed to show Belkar's more compassionate side and to give Shojo a reason to help Belkar realize how to fake character growth.

If this was random, or a coincidence, why would it be shown? It's in the background, and it's not a joke, or filler, or relevant to the strips before or after it for hundreds more. Why would this have been included if it was meanlingless. Not all foreshadowing has to be BAM! Elan picked up the Girdle of F/M or BAM! When the goat turns red strike true! They can be quiet scenes in the background or a some word choices

[spargel]

Why make a deal about the cat? No one noticed Mr. Scruffy was even really gone until he returned. Mr. Scruffy was needed to show Belkar's more compassionate side and to give Shojo a reason to help Belkar realize how to fake character growth.

The author had to think of what to do with the cat after Shojo dies, and he simply decided to give it to Belkar.

If this was random, or a coincidence, why would it be shown? It's in the background, and it's not a joke, or filler, or relevant to the strips before or after it for hundreds more. Why would this have been included if it was meanlingless. Not all foreshadowing has to be BAM! Elan picked up the Girdle of F/M or BAM! When the goat turns red strike true! They can be quiet scenes in the background or a some word choices

I'm arguing that it's not as complicated as the thread author thinks it is, not that it wasn't foreshadowing.

[mofabulous]

Arguably this is a minor thing. It's just interesting because when I've read the entire comic at least ten times. And I never once noticed that. Did any of you pick up on it?

Did anyone catch that? I've read that other topic about thread that Odinswatcher linked and I don't recall this in that thread.

I just figured you all would be interested in it too. Mr Scruffy and Belkar was planned over a hundred strips before it even happened. Thats pretty cool to me.

[spargel]

I just figured you all would be interested in it too. Mr Scruffy and Belkar was planned over a hundred strips before it even happened. Thats pretty cool to me.

The author already claims that he has the basic structure of the ending planned, so it's not really surprising for me.

[Jackson]

While I don't disagree that it's hardly remarkable for a storyteller to plan ahead and leave small, barely noticeable clues as to his plan (it's actually ridiculously common, even if this particular case is subtler than usual), I think it's fair to let somebody have their moment of awe upon discovering one of those clues in retrospect.

In other words: is it amazing that he had planned the Scruffy/Belkar relationship out 100 strips in advance? Not really. Is it cool, not to mention fun, to pick up on the earliest sign that it was planned out that far in advance? Definitely.

[Forbiddenwar]

When considering the medium, far-ranged foreshadowing, like this, is unusual. Rich has stated early on that he knows how the comic will end, but to have it planned out to such detail . . .
Well, we don't normally see that in webcomics. Some television, like B5, yes and in well written series of novels, (when a small note appears in book 3 and then turns the whole plot in book 4) yes, but not in webcomics.

[Ehra]

While I don't disagree that it's hardly remarkable for a storyteller to plan ahead and leave small, barely noticeable clues as to his plan (it's actually ridiculously common, even if this particular case is subtler than usual), I think it's fair to let somebody have their moment of awe upon discovering one of those clues in retrospect.

In other words: is it amazing that he had planned the Scruffy/Belkar relationship out 100 strips in advance? Not really. Is it cool, not to mention fun, to pick up on the earliest sign that it was planned out that far in advance? Definitely.

Pretty much this. Not everyone lives on these forums, let them have their moment.

[Thajocoth]

Foreshadowing is when somebody over-analyzes a work of fiction to find clues to what they already know happens later that are usually only there because characters happen to have developed personalities.

Good writers don't go "Hmm... I should add some foreshadowing here. Let me contrive how the characters will act." They instead go "Given their personalities, situations and knowledge, these characters would likely act like this." Then, later, when characters still have a consistent personality, like any well-written character should, everyone seems to call it foreshadowing.

Most of the things you learn in English class are like that though... They should really stick to vocabulary, grammar, linguistics and reading. Most of the analysis of fiction is contrived, useless, and takes away from time that could be better spent on other aspects of the language. Linguistics is, generally, ignored entirely.

Scruffy is a pretty friendly cat in that comic. Belkar apparently likes cats. Simple personality traits. Later, Belkar still likes cats, and Scruffy likes getting food and attention, 'cause he's a cat. Belkar feeds and takes care of him, so he still likes Belkar. I see no foreshadowing. I see consistent characters.

[BatRobin]

That is in no way what foreshadowing is. If that's what you think it is, I command to to read Book 5 of HP. NAO.

[CrimsonAngel]

Arguably this is a minor thing. It's just interesting because when I've read the entire comic at least ten times. And I never once noticed that. Did any of you pick up on it?

Did anyone catch that? I've read that other topic about thread that Odinswatcher linked and I don't recall this in that thread.

I just figured you all would be interested in it too. Mr Scruffy and Belkar was planned over a hundred strips before it even happened. Thats pretty cool to me.

I mock your definition of 'cool'.

[LtKillroy]

Read a book like Catch-22 or watch Arrested Development and then we'll talk about great foreshadowing. This is good, but nothing much to write home about.

[Gandariel]

in strip 463 you can see Xykon and Redcloak going away from the blue explosion, i didn't notice it before reading that strip again

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0463.html

[Mc. Lovin']

I only wish either the Azurite's or the Hobgoblins in line 2 were in reverse order so the symmetry was maintained throughout. Though I do like that "*sigh* Politics as usual." and "brains" are equated.

Actually they are, the "politics" one is linked with the "Oh man!" hobo, as they're both casters. the zombie is supposed to be a mook

[Forbiddenwar]

That is in no way what foreshadowing is. If that's what you think it is, I command to to read Book 5 of HP. NAO.

Or, since it doesn't sound like Thaj enjoys reading, he can read this short bit on the definition of foreshadowing.
It is far more than characterization. Setting, plot and props (checkovs gun) can be used as forshadowing and can be hinted at from foreshadowing.

[Thajocoth]

Or, since it doesn't sound like Thaj enjoys reading, he can read this short bit on the definition of foreshadowing.
It is far more than characterization. Setting, plot and props (checkovs gun) can be used as forshadowing and can be hinted at from foreshadowing.

I have nothing against reading. I just don't put so much analysis on what I read that I see things the actual author of the works doesn't know about. It's not limited purely to character's personalities, sure... But it's still just a matter of being consistent. If the person writes anything consistent, people are going to see foreshadowing in it. If an author specifically plans to force foreshadowing in, it will appear out of place and unnatural. The same goes for most other literary things people are taught in English classes to look for.

[spargel]

Or, since it doesn't sound like Thaj enjoys reading,

How in the world did you come to that conclusion?