[4E] Skill Challenges?

[The J Pizzel]

Hey everyone. My gaming group is getting together finally for an actual 4E game. We've played through some quick skirmishes to feel out the classes and stuff, but not really gone through any full sessions.

I've come across some 1st level introduction to the game modules. One is called "Escape from Sembia" and it uses a skill challenge to evade some guards and escape the city.

I've read up on them and think they sound pretty interesting and I can see some pretty cool uses for them. I was just wondering if anyone has some advice on running them? How have they worked for you? Are they pretty fun, boring, etc? Any popular opinions on quick fixes I should know about? Just looking for some all around input. Thanks in advance.

the pizzel

[Hal]

Heh, my group actually did that module.

Most people on here will tell you that the DCs set in the DMG are bogus (for one reason or another). While they're a useful tool, I think they ultimately end up like any other aspect of the game: Reliant on a good GM who is capable of thinking on his feet and will reward players who think outside the box and refrain from arbitrarily punishing failure.

Besides, GMs shouldn't "pull back the curtain," so to speak. If your players only need X number of successes to finish the skill challenge, don't tell them that.

[Oracle_Hunter]

DC-wise, I take the Errata'd ones and add +5. Even at Level 1, a DC 5 for "Easy" checks is too low.

It seems to work OK so far, though only when the Players get to pick their Skills. I haven't used them against un-optimized skills yet.

Anyhow, Skill Challenges continue to be problematic - though I hear DMG 2 actually has a good guide for using them.

[Mando Knight]

I just arbitrarily pick the DCs. I never go by the ones in the book because of I'm too lazy to pick it up and flip to that page every time I want to run a Skill Challenge. In fact, I just arbitrate the entire skill challenge without referring to the actual rules, picking DCs and success/failure requirements that I think are "fair" based on character stats, how I want the thing to progress, and the player's description of the action.

However, most people aren't good at that kind of arbitration... which is pretty much the main reason why those rules are included in the DMGs in the first place.

[Thajocoth]

I roleplay it as normal, counting successes & failures. If they succeed, I give them (successes - failures) enemies of XP. It works out to about the same math, but without pre-deciding how many successes it will take to complete the challenge. The DCs are roughly 5, 10 & 20 + 1/2 level for easy, medium & hard... But I add 5 to those numbers. As it stands, some of my players, at level 2, can make some DC 21 checks on a 4... A DC 16 check stands no chance to them. On the lower end, DC 21 is still possible, but only barely for some player's skills.

[jmbrown]

Skill challenges are a great way of narrating a tense scene without getting too deep into the rules and worrying about people stacking rolls by having every single character roll their relevant skill. I mainly use skill challenges for travelling. If they win, they reach their destination and if they fail they get lost, waist time, or bump into something nasty.

DMG 2 has modified rules for skill challenges including suggestions for advancing time as well as random encounters during challenges. People here have posted how they've played entire skill challenge sessions without seeing a single battle.

[The J Pizzel]

Heh, my group actually did that module.

Most people on here will tell you that the DCs set in the DMG are bogus (for one reason or another). While they're a useful tool, I think they ultimately end up like any other aspect of the game: Reliant on a good GM who is capable of thinking on his feet and will reward players who think outside the box and refrain from arbitrarily punishing failure.

Besides, GMs shouldn't "pull back the curtain," so to speak. If your players only need X number of successes to finish the skill challenge, don't tell them that.

How'd you like the module. I'm gonna run it twice in a row and let the players play different characters each time around. I'm trying to let them try out differet characters.

Not to brag, but flying by the seat of my pants, especially in situations that resemble skill challenges are my forte. I'm much batter ad adlibing then planning. So I think I'll run it OK.

So the popular opinion is that the DC's are usuallly too low huh? Well, that should be an easy fix. I'll just up em a bit.

I really like the idea of using it for serious interrogations, following maps, negotiating intense situations, escaping a crumbling building, etc.

[Kylarra]

It mostly depends on how flexible you are when they try to justify their strong skills and how diverse their particular skillsets are. They will either succeed easily or fail miserably with no real middle ground depending if they can use their good skills or not.