Neverending Dungeon - Generic

[Tavar]

Hmmm.....
You take (2d4+2)[9] damage. Fort save dc 10+damage or die.
Next round, You take (2d4+2)[7] damage. Fort save dc 10+damage or die.

[chilepepper]

What from?

[Tavar]

Coup de grace's from a dagger.

[chilepepper]

No, I mean what knocked me unconscious?

[Tavar]

Ah, it was a spell. Color spray if you must know.

[chilepepper]

Which has a range of 15'. I am unaffected.

[Tavar]

unless the opponent uses it's move speed to get within range. Considering that you can't do anything against it, i did neglect to mention that fact.

[chilepepper]

If the opponent moved, I would have seen it and you should have told me. Since you didn't tell me, I can only assume he didn't move. Can I start doing things without telling you?

[Tavar]

Sorry, I didn't realize that I needed to okay my monster's movements with you. Especially since it was his turn, you can't do anything. After the save, I would have described what happened, anyways.

[chilepepper]

Sorry, I didn't realize that I needed to okay my monster's movements with you. Especially since it was his turn, you can't do anything. After the save, I would have described what happened, anyways.

You didn't, you went right on with coup de grace, and I wouldn't have seen him move after the color spray, so why ask me to save, then take two more rounds, before you tell me I saw him move?

You're monster cast color spray. Then when I mentioned it wouldn't be in range, you changed the monster's turn to include movement.

It's no different if I say, oh, you color sprayed, well my ready action trigger was actually "when I get color sprayed" so I BU him instead.

How about instead of color spraying me, you make it so there was an open pit, out in the open, that I fell into.

You don't have to OK your monsters turns, but you have to tell me what my character experiences. And you really can't just back up and change things whenever you want.

[Tavar]

I didn't include it at that point, but that's because it really wasn't necessary. You couldn't do anything, and you're pretty much assured to be dead. Sorry for not going into total detail, I guess you'll garnish my wages.

[chilepepper]

It's true, I couldn't have changed anything. You are the one who volunteered to DM, if you aren't will to actually do it, why waste players time? It is your job to describe what the characters experience to the players. You STILL haven't done that.

You've already screwed up the LoS/LoE rules. You screwed up spell range rules. Now you're screwing up Coup de Grace rules. You're right, I'm assured to be dead because I signed up for a DnD 3.5 game and I ended up playing in a "I'm going to make things up until the player is dead" game.

[Tavar]

How am I screwing up the spell or the coup de grace rules?

And yes, I screwed something up. Wow, I'm not perfect, what a surprise.

[chilepepper]

You screwed up the spell range because you hit me with a 15' range spell from 25' away. You now say he actually moved but you still haven't told me how far.

[Douglas]

He neglected to mention explicitly that someone moved when the details of it really didn't matter. That hardly seems worth the fuss you're raising about this.

[chilepepper]

First of all, the details do matter, but I can't count on things not being retconned to go exactly the way the DM wants it to, despite the rules, so I'm trying to get all the information I should have gotten originally before I point out more errors.

Second of all, I fail to see why it's your place to voice an opinion in a game thread in which you are neither a player nor a DM/GM.

[Tanaric]

Douglas is a player with experience on this floor, Tavar is your DM, the monster had movement available, you failed your will save.

The end. You're not the first to get a death by color spray, and I doubt very much you'll be the last. It's not worth the fuss.

If you need more of an explanation than that: it's a monster with enough intelligence to know that its spell has a 15 foot range, and wouldn't cast it just to give you a show. There's no excuse for it to do so, and its tactics are outlined very clearly for Tavar.

If you want to submit a new character, by all means, go ahead. If you'd rather have me as your DM, that's fine too. But Tavar is doing me a service by helping out, and I'll thank you not to disparage that fact over slight misunderstandings. Yes, it's good that you pointed out the proper rules, but it's not okay to all but mock him.

Nobody likes losing, but it's no excuse for bad manners.

[chilepepper]

All I want to know is the movement I should have been told about originally. How many times do I have to ask?

It makes a difference, but I guess just like the LoS/LoE, I have to spell it out.

If the monster moves to 15' and then color sprays, then it has to move again next round to be within melee range. Since Coup de Grace is a full round action, it is only going to get one before I wake up, NOT TWO.

If it moved within melee range and then color sprayed, I'd get an AoO.

Now, if I had been color sprayed and died, there would be no reason for 'bad manners'. The fact that I've had tell my DM he was wrong about LoS SEVERAL times and finally draw him a picture instead of him looking up the rules, and now I have to ask SEVERAL times for the description I should have gotten originally SEVERAL times is just plain ridiculous.

[Tanaric]

Very well. In my opinion, he moved to the range of his spell, color sprayed you, and then you fell unconscious. He's 15 feet away.

He was also being generous with those CDGs I think, since one should have actually been a bowshot to the face for (3d8)[6]. <-- Whoo I fail at damage rolls forever. Not that it matters.

There's the movement for you. Do you have some way for it to make a difference?

[chilepepper]

The elf couldn't CDG me. He was dazed for one round, would have to draw his bow the next round and move to be adjacent, then I'd wake up. Agreed?

[Tanaric]

Ah. I should really have read the entire section. That looks to be correct, so the actual order of events would have been something else entirely.

Blind/stunned: (1d4)[2]

(1d20+2)[13] (1d20+3)[6] (1d20+2)[17] (1d20+3)[15] (1d20+2)[8] (1d20+3)[4]

(1d6)[6] (1d8)[3] (1d6)[3] (1d8)[8] (1d6)[2] (1d8)[4]

There there might be more following this.

Your AC is, I believe, 5, for the first two attacks. 14 -5 dex, -2 blind, -2 stunned. You then regain your dex bonus, bringing your AC up to 10.

[Tanaric]

They should have one more round to fire off attacks, but I think twenty seventeen damage is enough to do what they tried to do in the first place.

Do you have any issues with this order of events?

[chilepepper]

Is it my turn now?

[Tanaric]

Not yet. You see that the one with the teeth is standing next to you with his rapier, while the elf is in the doorway with his bow.

(1d20+2)[18] rapier vs stunned AC, for (1d6)[5]
(1d20+3)[21] longbow vs stunned AC + soft cover, for (1d8)[6]

2 unconscious/blind/stunned + 2 blind/stunned + 1 stunned.

It should be your turn now.

[chilepepper]

There is yet another mistake, but at least this time it ACTUALLY doesn't make a difference. I am dead and all it took was for Tavar to mess up three times in a row. Sucks that I made the Will save originally, before I realized how messed up everything was.

I hope he's a little less bull-headed about it in the future.