Mundane Masterwork Enhancements [3.5/PF] Updated 28th December

[Narmy]

Last Update - January 13th
Time of Update - 11: 08 PM, or 23:08 Hours.

Masterwork Enhancements.

In order to enhance an item with these mundane properties it must be created as such. This means that an item with a +1 Confirm Critical, the item and creation process must go as follows.
The item must be of masterwork quality, it must be created with the masterwork portion of the item.

Thus the DC, and cost of creating the enhanced masterwork item increase as listed.

Exponential Costs
All costs are exponential except for Disarm, Trip, Sunder, Feint, Intimidate, and Diplomacy. An example of the +1 Hardness, and 5 hp costs would be; 100 Gold for the first point, 200 gold in addition to for the second point, and then 400, 800, 1600 gold in addition each point.

Stacking
All Masterwork Enhancements stack with Magical Enchantment bonuses except as listed specifically.

Example
A Masterwork Longsword, Enhanced +5 Hardness, 25 HP.
Would have a total creation cost of +4100 Gold plus the cost of the weapon itself, and a DC of 38. The masterwork price is included in this example.

15 Gold = Price of Weapon.
300 Gold = Masterwork Version.
3100 Gold = +5 Hardness, and 25 HP.
This would come out to a total cost of 3415 Gold, with a Craft DC of 30.




Weapons
{table=head]Enhancement | Cost | DC Increase | Limit
Reduce weight by 1/3 (33%) | +50 / lb Gold | 4 | 1
+1 Hardness and 5 HP | +100 Gold | 2 | 5
+1 Disarm | +200 Gold | 2 | 4
+1 Trip | +200 Gold | 2 | 4
+1 Sunder | +200 Gold | 2 | 4
+1 Feint | +200 Gold | 2 | 4
+1 Damage | +500 Gold | 3 | 5
+1 To Hit Bonus | +500 Gold | 3 | 5
+1 Confirm Critical Threat | +1000 Gold | 2 | 4
+1 Critical Threat Range | +1000 Gold | 6 | 1[/table]

The Critical Threat Range Does NOT stack with Keen, or Improved Critical.

Intimidating or Diplomatic Weapons
In order to gain the benefits from an intimidating, or diplomatic weapon. The weapon must be carried/wielding on your person, and the target must be capable of clearly seeing the weapon and the symbols or carvings on it. These bonuses are circumstantial and may not work on every one (DM Rule)

Armors
{table=head]Enhancement | Cost | DC Increase | Limit
Reduce Weight by 1/3 (33%) | +75 / lb Gold | 6 | 1
+2 Hardness and 10 HP | +200 Gold | 4 | 5
+1 Max Dex | +500 Gold | 4 | 3
Reduce ACP by 1 | +500 Gold | 4 | 3
-5% Spell Failure | +500 Gold | 4 | 1
+1 AC vs Confirm Critical Threat | +500 Gold | 4 | 4[/table]

Tools and Instruments
{table=head]Grade Degree | Cost | DC | Bonus
Masterwork | +50gp | 20 | +2
Second | +1250gp | 30 | +4
Third | +1250gp | 40 | +6 [/table]

[Milskidasith]

You don't list the costs, so I have no clue how balanced these are. Improving the crit range by 4 is insane for crit builds, though.

[Fortuna]

Forced to agree on that one. Perhaps alternate improving range and multiplier? Still insane, but probably less so.

[TSED]

Also, masterwork armour increases the price by 150gp not 300gp in base 3.5. You may have overlooked that detail.

[Temotei]

Wasn't there a thread about a week or two ago dealing with exactly this?

[Narmy]

I wouldn't know, oh I didn't miss it, I was just bored, lazy, and not in the mood, and so made a mistake and never realized that I did so until now.

Thank you for pointing it out.

Oh, I didn't list the prices because I'm looking for help in what I should do with it.

Your posts have helped me a bit, I'll edit it up, and then hopefully you can get back to me.

[Krazddndfreek]

There is something that looks almost exactly like this, but thoroughly fleshed out on dandwiki.com. Here it is, Building a Better Masterwork. Enjoy.

[Narmy]

Actually, that's not a good finished product, nor is it finished.
That's where I got the idea for it.

Now should the levels be from 1-3, or 1-5.

I'm thinking of going with a +2 or perhaps a +4 to confirm criticals, at the higher levels, the critical threat range would increase.

[Krazddndfreek]

It looks pretty finished to me. I'll agree with you when you say its not very good. It's not feasible at all for game use.

You could go with what some of the suggesters at the end of the article said. One of them said to adapt the mastercraft system and treat it as masterwork. Another suggested the builder of the masterwork item could choose the extra benefits after 1st degree from a specific set. Another said to simply use the same rules, but cut the costs so the masterwork increases at the same rate that magical items do.

[Ponce]

There is something that looks almost exactly like this, but thoroughly fleshed out on dandwiki.com. Here it is, Building a Better Masterwork. Enjoy.

TWO HUNDRED AND FORTY THREE MILLION GOLD PIECES.

OP, it is a good idea, but both you and dandwiki are taking it down a dark, wretched path.

Suggestions:
-Design it for pre-epic play. Just... do it.
-Don't enhance the critical threat range. Give it a bonus to confirm criticals, like +2 every even level of masterwork (2,4) or maybe +1 at every level.
-Hardness and HP bonuses on the item are usually fine, though I cringe at the thought of DMs who actually like destroying gear. Still, should definitely be there.
-Masterwork attack bonuses should stack with magic bonuses, IMO. They seem to be two very different things to me.
-No reducing arcane spell failure, there's enough of that floating around as it is.
-Giving masterwork weapons a damage bonus is not sin!
-Armour should grant some DR, but nothing game-breaking.

Summary:

Masterwork Weapon - +1 Masterwork bonus to attack every odd level (1,3,5), +1 Masterwork bonus to damage every even level (2,4), +5 HP/level, +1 hardness/level, +1 bonus to confirm criticals/level. Cost: level*level*level*300. Max level: 5.

Masterwork Armour - ACP reduced by 1/level, +10 HP/level, +1 hardness/level, DR (Level)/Magic. Cost: level*level*level*200.

Descriptions:
Level One: An officer's weapon. Stands out from the rank and file.
Level Two: A nobleman's weapon. The best weapon most people will ever see.
Level Three: A king's weapon. He had the finest smith in the land summoned to his court to commission this.
Level Four: A master's weapon. Can only be found by seeking out the blacksmith rumoured to live in a highly inconvenient location in some frost-giant-ridden mountain range.
Level Five: A legendary weapon. Crafted in a time long past. An elegant weapon, for a more sophisticated age.

[Narmy]

I don't think that I'm taking it down a dark path, considering that I got the idea of different level masterwork items from D&D wiki, and then I decided to actually work with people to make a viable game working, balanced version.

Hence why I've come here.

So no, I'm not taking it down a dark path, I'm taking it to an enlightened path.


Also, yes, there was another masterwork levels thread, I did not see it, as it was way back in the pages. I am going to look at theirs, and then use ideas from both.

I am going to use some of the ideas that the previous poster just posted. The guy who said I was going down a dark path.

I thank him, as his information was helpful, but you did jump to a conclusion there. >.> I understand, you were shocked by the cost. <.< I was too. Hence why I wanted to make it a HELL of a lot cheaper.

And... before epic? Who ever gave you the idea I wanted them be be at epic levels?

Perhaps the high dc's... hm.. I'll fix those, no worries. I apologize.

[Narmy]

MASSIVE UPDATE.

I've updated the O.P. with my new Mundane Enhancements idea. Lets get some comments in people.

It's a pretty standard idea, and works well. I just need to get the numbers going correctly.

[deuxhero]

I like the idea (melee should get nice things), but note that a Masterwork (-1) Mithiral (-3) Fullplate for 200 extra gold (very minimal at the existing cost of the already popular item) get's an ACP of 0 (and will lack non-proficeny penalties as they are based on ACP)

What's the point of making armor harder/have more hit points? Can anything actually hurt armor when you are wearing it?

[FlamingKobold]

Narmy, I keep seeing your threads and comments and they always fit so perfectly with my campaigns I like the new version, the numbers look about right. If I have time tonight, I'll do a solo playtest, and may or may not tweak the numbers before adding it to my next campaign.

[Narmy]

Yes, things can and should hurt armor when you are wearing it.

People just don't really take that into account.


Actually... ACP does not give Prof Penalties. Take the light armors for example, some have 0 ACP, and you STILL need Light armor Prof to use them without Penalties.

I'm not sure where you got that ACP info from, but I've NEVER heard of it.
Though I'll take into account the possibility that I could be wrong, though I'd like proof.

[Narmy]

Narmy, I keep seeing your threads and comments and they always fit so perfectly with my campaigns I like the new version, the numbers look about right. If I have time tonight, I'll do a solo playtest, and may or may not tweak the numbers before adding it to my next campaign.

If you do any number tweaks please post these here and give me your opinion.

As a side note, The increased to hit bonus does stack with magic weapons, EXCEPT for the first point. That is at least, my current idea of how these weapons should work with magical enchantments.

Meaning that a +3 To Hit, +2 Magical Enchanted Weapon would give you a total of

+4 To Hit (Enhancement Bonus)

P.S.
Thank you very much, it makes me very happy to hear that people like my work. Though it's not mine entirely, remember that. It belongs to myself, and all those that helped me gather the ideas for, and fix it. So it's the Community's work.

[Latronis]

I'm gunna keep an eye on this...

[Narmy]

I'm gunna keep an eye on this...

Why not post an idea so that it can change more often. So that there is more for you to keep an eye on.

As it stands now.

I have 1-2 People that I generally discuss my ideals with, and they are not always fully active parties. Which leads me to just having this forum.
(Yes I try other boards), and you guys no like to post unless I have good refined ideas. lol.

Though I can't get good refined ideas unless I have people comment and give me feedback. >.> Which I don't get unless I have refined ideas.


DAMN YOU DOOM TRIANGLES. -STABS THE TRIANGLE WITH A SPORK-

[Latronis]

Well I dont really have anything constructive to add atm, but i may later

[Narmy]

I've gone and added some tables, removed the crap, refixed. Added some explanations.

The explanations need work, so I'll rely on you guys to help with that.

Removed the option to increase die type by one size for balance purposes.

Made Reduce Weight available for armors.

[Latronis]

Non-magical means of reducing the weight of weapons is odd since it's the weight that makes melee weapons effective.

Have you thought about.. modifications?

Like a special grip or handle or some other adjustment potentially granting bonuses to combat actions? (like +2 disarm checks) etc

[Narmy]

Nope, it never crossed my mind.

As for lighter weights.

I'm thinking about using different materials, mixtures of minerals/alloys. Folding, and all of that.

So that you get a more potent or equally potent weapon or armor.. At a lighter weight.

I believe that it is logically, and realistically possible. I'm almost positive of it.

I'll ask my one friend, he's sort of a weapon master.

As for disarm and such, I'll add all those later tomorrow. If you have any ideas, post em.

[Latronis]

It's fairly simple physics, the more weight it has the more force it applies on the business end. In the case of an edge it cuts better, for a blunt weapon it umm crushes better. Start sacrificing weight and you have to manually apply more force.. swing harder to get the same effect.

You can strengthen a blade or lighten a blade without losing strength.

As for the mods.. Nothing specific, Just a basic idea atm.

[deuxhero]

Actually... ACP does not give Prof Penalties. Take the light armors for example, some have 0 ACP, and you STILL need Light armor Prof to use them without Penalties.

ORLY?

A character who is wearing armor with which she is not proficient applies its armor check penalty to attack rolls and to all skill checks that involve moving, including Ride.

Other than ACF I don't know any other penalties listed (this is why all those mages use mithiral twilight chain shirts, the only harm they do to a non-proficient user is 5 pounds of weight, same as a proficient one)

I think some class feature out there works only in armor you are proficient in, but that is the exception.

[Narmy]

I was interpreting your thing as something else.

Either way, we were both right in the way that we were talking.

At least, I was half-right, I just got combobulated, any way that's off-topic. BACK TO THE MATTER AT HAND --- SPORKS!

Yes, a fullplate could have 0 ACP, but hey. It's gonna cost them gold, and it's going to have to be made by a good blacksmith.

If you have problems with the acp right now for armors.

We can either increase the dc, the gold cost, or reduce the limit.

Suggestions if you want.

[FlamingKobold]

A few suggestions:

1. Make a mechanism to decrease ASF. I'm not sure about the effects, since right now I'm planning for a low/no magic campaign, but maybe a 5% reductio for 500 gp, max 3? Ooooh.... the wizard gets to wear leather armor.....

2. Make "Modifications," as were suggested above. Some examples would be giving melee weapons an optional 5' reach (But could still attack adjacent), A mod for 1-handed that lets them be used in a grapple, Mods that give +2 trip and disarm, etc. Maybe a mod that let's you get +2 when mounted, or is made in a specific way to make it easy to swing underwater. Just some suggestions.

[Narmy]

See... I'm not sure about the ASF..

Mainly due to the fact that Pathfinder has feats for wizards to deal with that sort of thing.

Even 3.5 does even, though you've gotta take it from the one Supplement Class for 3.5 (Or just use the PathFinder feats).

As for the underwater ideas, and such. Sounds good. Though I'd like a more detailed example before I add anything like that... reach maybe... I'm not sure.

As for other things. This is what I have planned.
Oh, and I'll be adding fluff for these things to (In example - Feint = You could have like tassles or whatever, coloured ribbon that can help distract an opponent.

You ever seen those chinese weapons with the ribbon that is used for distracting opponents? That's where I got the idea.

You paid closer attention to the coloured text, didn't ya :P See my point?

[Foryn Gilnith]

I also see sections in the forum rules addressing formatting. :P

Nice system, but I'm not sure about the prices and all. How would PCs get this? If you're trying to purchase one of these things, the obscene DC would probably make it cost more than a couple of thousand gold.

See... I'm not sure about the ASF..

Mainly due to the fact that Pathfinder has feats for wizards to deal with that sort of thing.

Pathfinder and basic 3.5 have feats to deal with half of the upgrades you're making available.

[Narmy]

The DC doesn't increase the cost of the weapon.

The type of, and number of enhancements do.

Go up and read the example at the top of the first post.

Aside from that.

The forum rules don't apply to that post for one reason, it was being done for purposes that don't bother anyone, and proved a good point, plus it's for homebrew purposes. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. Anyone who disagrees, well.. I won't say anything further.

[Narmy]

I also see sections in the forum rules addressing formatting. :P

Nice system, but I'm not sure about the prices and all. How would PCs get this? If you're trying to purchase one of these things, the obscene DC would probably make it cost more than a couple of thousand gold.



Pathfinder and basic 3.5 have feats to deal with half of the upgrades you're making available.

And those upgrades have to do with the skill of the character themselves, NOT the actual weapon itself.

Aside from that, you're not really giving any help here, you're mostly providing negative criticism that I find offensive. Mostly, I'm just ticked at you for making that post about the forum rules regarding the colour. I ask that you either provide some constructive criticism, or leave.