The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

[Frog Dragon]

The others are:

Spoiler

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Falcon's Eye
Falling Wave
Frozen Zephyr / Acidic Fog / Shocking Sky
Gentle Breeze
Infinite Torment
Iron Rain
Knowing Heart
Leaping Gale
Masked Moon
Mental Grip
Mystic Cobra
Ocean Tempest
Oncoming Storm
Nightingale Feather
Placid Lake
Rending Scream
Scarlet Rose
Silver Crane
Silver Pegasus
Steel Mountain
The Discipline of the Lost Lyrics
True Arrow
Untamed Essence
Viper Fang
Way of the Gear

I can name one more
Piercing Point

[dspeyer]

I can name one more
Piercing Point

Oh, and there's Monkey Paw

[DracoDei]

Right. We can try, at least.

I assume that PMing you a detailed explaination of The Frying Pan of Doom would be in order? I know exactly what it does in the story it is from, but translating that into mechanics for a variable-power weapon was where I ran into problems, since I just have ToB, not Weapons of Legacy. Note that I DON'T think that "Trial By Heckler" would be especially appropriate for the Frying Pan.

Anyway, working on my own discipline again.
a) Would people think that a counter that replaced your AC with a bluff check result is overpowered, given that there's stuff like Glibness which make bluff checks really easy to optimize? Probably not, I think.

Glibness doesn't actually work that way. For instance it doesn't help out with feinting.


EDIT: Is it too soon for us/me to start thinking about which of the option I outlined earlier for the "humorous-version" Temple of Nine Swords policy on students with Falling Anvil Maneuvers?
Options, break down into two axis I think:
Axis I:
1.) Not allowed in, expelled if developed (either as quarentine or as punishment).
2.) Not allowed in, development later tolerated (perhaps only if a certain degree of honor/progress shown both before and after that point).
3.) Allowed in, development later at least tolerated.
4.) Falling Anvil students specifically sought out and invited to the temple, BECAUSE the discipline is so unusual (spontaniously occuring at least some of the time, draws power from a very unusual source), probably well treated, including socially, but the primary objective was more "study them" than "teach them", although teaching them would be part of the best way of studying them. Propogation and sharing of the discipline (almost certainly Reshar's goal in uniting the nine disciplines in the first place), seen as superfluous due to spontanious occurances.

Axis II (only applies in cases 2 through 4 above) :
1.) Falling Anvil students allowed to mix freely, and Falling Anvil even taught informally, much like you might see speed chess or other varients being practiced at a tournament chess-focused summer camp.
2.) Falling Anvil taught even in formal classes, but publicly denied so as to maintain public image, possibly even a Master with equal say in administration of the temple to the nine other "board members" (Reshar being the president during his tenure) masters of the nine. The very unlikeliness of this scenario might suit it well to a humor campaign.
3.) Falling Anvil students forbidden from practicing such maneuvers publicly, but allowed to refine them with eachother in isolated areas.
4.) Falling Anvil students forbidden from practicing such maneuvers even with eachother, either as a distraction from their "true studies" or in hopes of "curing" them.
5.) Falling Anvil students quarentined to specific dorm, encouraged or discouraged from practicing it with eachother, but discouraged from even socializing with other students.


So... once again, is this the time for me and others interested in that side of the project to start thinking about this, or would it be more efficient to table it? Given the strong reactions of some of the (still quite polite) members of this project, is a seperate thread indicated?

[JKTrickster]

Actually I would just talk about that in a separate thread for clarity. I mean there's plenty of sub-discussions here that all could really use their own thread. There's no need to jam it all together here.

So Elvenblade and Eldan, shall we start a new thread and start getting some legacy weapons up? And with such a huge amount, I think we need much more help with this (and lots of communication with those who originally homebrewed all those disciplines (if still possible).

Oh and we need to get in contact with the others who are starting ToB 2. After all, having two groups work cohesively towards one project if much more productive and effective.

[Elfin]

That sounds like a great idea. I don't have Weapons of Legacy myself, but I'd happily write some the weapons' fluff as well as that of disciplines.

Shall I start it or do you want to?

[DragoonWraith]

That sounds like a great idea. I don't have Weapons of Legacy myself, but I'd happily write some the weapons' fluff as well as that of disciplines.

Is that really necessary? The rules for legacy weapons are horrid, and this isn't the Book of More Swords, so we really don't need them...

[JKTrickster]

Hmm actually DragoonWraith is kind of right. I'm reading through some of the disciplines, and it would never make sense for some of them to have legacy weapons. That presents a problem because it would be weird to have legacy weapons for some disciplines and not others (yet at the same time, trying to force legacy weapons on those that don't fit just doesn't feel appropriate as well...)

What do you think Elvenblade?

[Elfin]

You know, thinking about it, that's a rather good point.

Plus, The Book of Fifty-Three Swords isn't exactly what you'd call a catchy title.

[Eldan]

I think we can at least make some, for the disciplines that make sense. I always liked the idea. While I'm not too good with the rules aspect, from what I've heard, it's theoretically possible to make Legacy Weapons which are at least useful. There is no reason to make them as bad as the generic ones.

Basically, just think about it like this: what do you sacrifice, and what should that sacrifice be worth? You pay money and have to do quests for a legacy weapon, it should be worth that. You also lose some character resources (hit points and stuff like that, IIRC), so you should just get something equivalent or better. As far as I know, the rules for Legacy Weapons are also in the ToB in the relevant chapter, for those lacking the LW book.

The idea of giving a player an item that grows and becomes stronger with him always appealed more to me than the idea of changing weapons every two levels. "This is my blade. I know how it is balanced, and how it cuts. My liege gave it to me. I've worn it in a dozen battles, and have polished it every morning for ten years. I'm not going to throw it away just because this one was made by dwarves."

[Eldan]

Anyway, I opened a new thread here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156540

[Elfin]

I was wondering - is there anyone who wants to join me writing fluff?

[DracoDei]

I was wondering - is there anyone who wants to join me writing fluff?

Open up a thread for it, or use this one... just start, even by posing questions, and see what people do. I know I am the sort to have ideas and pointed questions, but I can't commit to anything as far as that particular sub-project (technically I haven't committed to anything regarding the project as a whole).

[Elfin]

That's an excellent idea - I've started a thread here.

[lade5]

Has anyone considered making epic level stances/attacks for the disciplines, if characters devote emphasis to a single form and master it to completion.They have to be broken or players won't devote the time and resources to develop their arts to the pinnacle form.

For example

For the diamond mind, a form of timestop that isn't magical but supernatural that allows for the user to attck while in timestop due to extreme reactiosn in slivers of time.

[DracoDei]

Has anyone considered making epic level stances/attacks for the disciplines, if characters devote emphasis to a single form and master it to completion.They have to be broken or players won't devote the time and resources to develop their arts to the pinnacle form.

For example

For the diamond mind, a form of timestop that isn't magical but supernatural that allows for the user to attck while in timestop due to extreme reactiosn in slivers of time.

Epic level stuff has been created on these boards for at least some of the Nine, and probably all of them, plus a few disciplines that ONLY exist at Epic levels. I think the general consensus was that we were going to give all that a miss with this project, at least until after we had everything else pretty much handled.

[mrcarter11]

Well, I am not the best writer.. But I can try to help with the fluff. Or with the timeline. I am new to this thread.. But in any case, I can help where need be. Just point me in a direction..

[DracoDei]

Someone over in THIS thread of the roleplay section was confused by our discipline swapping/adding mechanic. See their original post, and my (first) post on the thread for details of what they thought was the deal, and what I am 99% sure is what is actually going on.

[DracoDei]

Well, I am not the best writer.. But I can try to help with the fluff. Or with the timeline. I am new to this thread.. But in any case, I can help where need be. Just point me in a direction..

Well, we recently started two new threads that are probably where you will find the highest concentration of stuff you could help with (and there is a LOT you could help with) :
History (unifying fluff)

Legacy Weapons (which require, by their very nature, a LOT of fluff) for more of the disciplines we have created (some already had legacy weapons).

[mrcarter11]

Well, the first I can probably work on without any trouble.. The second.. I rather avoid legacy weapons, to avoid angering the OP of the style if they didn't think it should have one..

[DracoDei]

Well, the first I can probably work on without any trouble.. The second.. I rather avoid legacy weapons, to avoid angering the OP of the style if they didn't think it should have one..

Well, I haven't given its entire origin story (which might come down to just refering people to the compendium of short stories its origin story is from), but if you feel up to it, The Frying Pan of Doom needs stat-ing out at the least.

Actually, I think if anyone felt like their discipline specifically SHOULDN'T have a legacy weapon they probably would have said so by now.

I am sure that there are more people who you could ask first and they would almost certainly say yes... in fact, getting blanket permission via PM from one of they guys who have done 5 or more disciplines would probably solve that concern.

[mrcarter11]

I have seen the Legacy weapon thread.. Its like every 6 posts the OP is saying sorry for something. I kinda feel bad for the guy..

[dspeyer]

I just went through the disciplines and gathered which original base classes they are compatible with. There are a few that don't give any indication I could find. Here they are, with my suggestions:

{table]Far Realm|swordsages
Ninefold Damnation|LE crusaders
Infinite Torment|CE crusaders
Narrow Bridge|swordsages
The Discipline of the Lost Lyrics|swordsages with at least 4 ranks in perform(sing or oratory)
Untamed Essence|warblades
Black Rain|warblades[/table]

Thoughts?

[DracoDei]

Heroes with tin stars on their shirts say that Crusaders should get access to Black Rain.

Other than that... not so sure.

[DragoonWraith]

Black Rain explicitly states that it can be used by any Martial Adept who has proficiency in firearms.

[ErrantX]

Black Heron and Silver Crane can be used by anyone who is possessed by or channeling an outsider.

-X

[JoshuaZ]

I just went through the disciplines and gathered which original base classes they are compatible with. There are a few that don't give any indication I could find.

.

Narrow Bridge was intended for swordsages or crusaders, although some people have expressed balance concerns about giving it to crusaders given that it has many different types of damage and other effects. Someone with a better understanding of balance issues should maybe comment. I'm fine with it being just swordsages.

[DracoDei]

.

Narrow Bridge was intended for swordsages or crusaders, although some people have expressed balance concerns about giving it to crusaders given that it has many different types of damage and other effects. Someone with a better understanding of balance issues should maybe comment. I'm fine with it being just swordsages.

I have a similar problem with Falling Anvil perhaps, although for different reasons, one solution (assuming either discipline has a problem in the first place) is 2 disciplines for 1 trade in instead of 1 for 1. That might take care of it, provided it has at least 3 first level non-stance maneuvers (otherwise there might be a combo where you couldn't spend all 5 1st level slots that crusaders get).

[DragoonWraith]

I'm sort of confused by the complaint. Too many types of damage and effects? What does that mean? I'll have to read the thread, but that makes little sense to me.

[DracoDei]

I'm sort of confused by the complaint. Too many types of damage and effects? What does that mean? I'll have to read the thread, but that makes little sense to me.

Enough mechanical versitility that it is like 2 disciplines worth of choices, with 1 discipline's worth of associated feats and pre-requisites (BTW uping the pre-requisites might help).

[DragoonWraith]

Yeah, I see what you mean.

JoshuaZ claims several of the maneuvers are very specialized - that concerns me. The discipline should be pared down to maneuvers that are generally useful, and it should have the normal number of maneuvers, IMO. Also, two 9th level maneuvers - including a 9th level stance - doesn't sit well with me, personally.