Arena Tournament, Round 81: Lance vs Elson

[userpay]

Sigh... damn 60 second post limit messed up the roll again.
(1d20+6)[25]

[HCL]

You are still in my threat zone, a medium creature with a reach weapon threatens a cube

you can change your turn now that you know that but unless you just delay/ready/end turn I get an aoo regardless

Question: If I take my attack of opportunity when he is taking a standard action to shoot me and make a disarm attempt and successfully disarm his bow, is his standard action wasted? Or can he just pick his bow back up and attack me with it right away?

I want to know before I take my attack of opportunity

[userpay]

Whoa whoa you said that you were 10 ft above me, that makes me think you are out of my reach but high enough as a result that you only threaten the spot I was at? My understanding of reach weapons is you basiclly get another 5 ft distance which means if I can't melee you then moving 5 ft in any dirction moves me out of your reach.
edit: looking at this from the srd
"Reach Weapons: Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away."

[HCL]

Look in the back of the DMG (page 308). A medium size character threatens a cube out to 5 feet around him. Reach doubles that to 10 feet. So yeah, I still threaten you if you five foot step.

I know that it doesn't quite make sense since 2 squares at a diagonal is not really 10 feet, its 15, but thats how the game models reach weapons.

[userpay]

Will you clarify if you are in my melee range? If you are not in my melee range then if I 5ft step then I'm out of your threat.

[HCL]

10 feet above the ground you are standing on with a reach weapon. Is that clear? I threaten a cube so there is no where you can move that will not threaten an AoO. You cannot hit me with a melee weapon unless it also has reach, you find a way to increase your size, or you can make a jump check to reach me (but jumping is movement and would provoke an Aoo)

[userpay]

10 feet above the ground you are standing on with a reach weapon. Is that clear? I threaten a cube so there is no where you can move that will not threaten an AoO

Hmm now I am starting to see what you mean, however I don't see how reach would count as a cube in a diagonal sense to 10 ft. If you want to make the aoo and while your gone on your vacation I can get a ref check to make sure that diagonally I'm still in threat zone we can do that.
edit:Posted the question in the waiting room.

[HCL]

Look at page 308 of the DMG, that is how a reach weapon is modeled. A reach weapon doubles your reach, and your diagonal reach is 5' which gets doubled to 10.

In any case getting to a perfect diagonal is 10' away from your current position

Are you going to stick with shooting me rain or shine?

I'll take an aoo (1d20+10)[29]

[HCL]

If you decide to delay or something that will just be my next attack

too bad I didn't get the good roll on the dive :P

(1d8+8)[16] Damage

[userpay]

Thats from a top down view though to, but it also clearly says "with reach weapons 2 squares". By now I should be about 2 and a half to 3 squares away I would think.
edit: Also where the hell are you getting +10 to your to hit?

[HCL]

Buffs, high ground, 18 strength.

There is no "2 and a half squares" there are only squares. I threaten a cube 2 squares in each direction. In any case I am going to attack you next round.

[userpay]

Just go, I've got rage claws so I'm still standing.
edit: Basiclly till someone rules otherwise lets go continue with your view of reach.

[HCL]

Lance Round 4: Move to 10 feet above you and attack again

(1d20+10)[21]

Next I fall on you as a free action, you may be entitled to a reflex save. I do not take damage due to my racial.

After falling on you I end my turn

[HCL]

Spear damage (1d8+8)[12] (I think that hits)

Fall damage (2d6)[7] reflex (not sure what DC) negates

If you survive end turn

[userpay]

I thought with your guy's race with falling you fall in a corkscrew or something? And your attack hits anyway so assuming that a ref doesn't overturn your view of reach at altitude you win. Also with falling I think I'd get an aoo if your attack hadn't hit.

[HCL]

You would get an Aoo if you had a melee weapon out but you are still wieling your shortbow. A bow does not threaten and you don't have a secondary weapon or improved unarmed strike.

Yeah this character concept is rather silly, I charge them, then I disarm them, then I fall on them. I like it.

[userpay]

You would get an Aoo if you had a melee weapon out but you are still wieling your shortbow. A bow does not threaten and you don't have a secondary weapon or improved unarmed strike.

Yeah this character concept is rather silly, I charge them, then I disarm them, then I fall on them. I like it.

Don't arrow count as daggers or something wierd like that? Anyway after this I think I might take this character out and replace it with a 2.0 version. I don't have enough money for a reach weapon for one and two I'm thinking I need weapon finesse more than I need the manuveers, basiclly gonna go fighter and then take swordsage as second level.

[HCL]

Oh yeah you can use improvised weapons, forgot about that.

[Sallera]

A charge must end in the nearest square from which one can attack the target, which in this case is P10+10, not Q9+10. Furthermore, although it's not relevant at the moment, what makes you think you'd do 2d6 damage from falling on someone? You don't even weigh 200lb, you won't do any damage falling from 10ft.

Rewind to Elson's Round 4 turn, Lance is in P10+10, not Q9+10.

[HCL]

A charge must end in the nearest square from which one can attack the target, which in this case is P10+10, not Q9+10. Furthermore, although it's not relevant at the moment, what makes you think you'd do 2d6 damage from falling on someone? You don't even weigh 200lb, you won't do any damage falling from 10ft.

Rewind to Elson's Round 4 turn, Lance is in P10+10, not Q9+10.

I thought he was in Q9, thats where I charged to (10 feet above him)

he can 5 foot step to wherever he wants but i threaten a cube. My gear weighs me down to 200 pounds.

[userpay]

I thought he was in Q9, thats where I charged to (10 feet above him)

he can 5 foot step to wherever he wants but i threaten a cube. My gear weighs me down to 200 pounds.

I think what Sallera means is nearest square from where you started which technecally is another square out but I'm willing to work with this since it gives me another chance. New post soon.

[HCL]

So do I have to reroll those last 4 attack rolls or are we keeping them?

[userpay]

Elson R-4
5 ft step to R-8. Fire MW arrow.
attack
(1d20+6)[23]
damage
(1d6)[4]
End Stats

Spoiler

Show

Elson
Male CG Snow Elf Swordsage, Level 1, Init +5, HP 10/10, Speed 30
AC 19, Touch 16, Flat-footed 15, Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +5, Base Attack Bonus 0
Scimitar (15 gp) +2 (1d8+1, 18-20/x2)
Shortbow (30 gp) (see inv) +4 (1d6, x3) (19 arrows)(4 MW arrows)
Studded leather (25 gp) (+3 Armor, +4 Dex)
Abilities Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 4
Condition None
maeuvers readied Sapphire Nightmare Blade 1, Distracting Ember 1, Burning Blade 1, Clinging Shadow Strike 1.

And how long can you fly? I thought your race can only fly for = to your con which means last round to this round you should have landed unless arena rules dictated otherwise.
edit:We would have to redo all of it from my round 4 posting which means I'm back to full health and rerolls.

[HCL]

Animal devotion gives me Overland flight for 10 rounds, then I spend some turning attempts to refresh it

I take 4 damage. Sallera let me know which attack rolls I need to reroll since you rewound or if I can keep those.

[HCL]

I'm assuming we are going to drop the good attack rolls and keep the bad ones (which is silly)

Anyway I turn and fly from P10 to S7 (20 feet of movement so I don't fall), SPEAR ATTACK

(1d20+10)[13]

Ah natural 3. If we are seriously making me reroll those attack rolls, turn.

[userpay]

Hmm using the hawk's flight and thus not even using your wings? Clever.
Elson R-5
5 ft step to R-9, fire MW arrow.
attack
(1d20+6)[8]
damage
(1d6)[3]
End Stats

Spoiler

Show

Elson
Male CG Snow Elf Swordsage, Level 1, Init +5, HP 10/10, Speed 30
AC 19, Touch 16, Flat-footed 15, Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +5, Base Attack Bonus 0
Scimitar (15 gp) +2 (1d8+1, 18-20/x2)
Shortbow (30 gp) (see inv) +4 (1d6, x3) (19 arrows)(3 mw arrows)
Studded leather (25 gp) (+3 Armor, +4 Dex)
Abilities Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 4
Condition None
maeuvers readied Sapphire Nightmare Blade 1, Distracting Ember 1, Burning Blade 1, Clinging Shadow Strike 1.

[HCL]

Thats in my threat range (1d20+10)[16] (and its a miss) next turn to follow shortly

[HCL]

Lollerskates move above you, attack with spear and fall on you

(1d20+10)[14]

sweet, a 4!

[HCL]

falling damage (2d6)[9]

End turn

If that action is illegal I will attack and then move away instead.

[userpay]

Well either way I should get an aoo with an arrow(dagger) which as an improvised weapon takes a -4 right?
(1d20-3)[11]
(1d4)[3]
Anyway from this point I think now we'll have to wait on a call about the falling damage. And I pray that you land next to me lol, I really want to see how my manuveers would work out. Hell even if you fall on me I think all it does (even with damage) is make you in the same square as me which I'm not sure if that has any penalties or not being in the same square.