Arena Tournament, Round 79: Yoshi vs. Ned the Knight

[Bayar]

Wont that trigger an AoO ?

[hustlertwo]

Yes. Unfortunately, Sarthax, this is sort of a learn as you go thing. You could have 5 foot stepped away to attack, without incurring an AoO. But you didn't, so now Mav gets one, because you have to specifically say 5 foot step. Your attack still goes through, but he gets to hit you first.

[Mavian]

I'm kind of confused here.

Why exactly is he getting to redo his turn? His actions were still legal, he just couldn't hit me from where he was standing. So that shouldn't because for a rewind. And he still hasn't taken the AoO I provoked, so is he just giving it up?

[hustlertwo]

The ruling seemed to be that he didn't get the AoO, but his attack on the next turn was rewound, presumably due to being an illegal action.

However, it looks like the same attack and damage either way , so I'm not sure how much it matters. Unless it was ruled he got both the AoO and the attack, things would be the same. Namely, that he gets a 23 attack roll against you for 5 damage. As it stands now you get an AoO prior to that attack, and then it's your turn after his attack hits.

[Mavian]

But it wasn't an illegal action. Him using a standard action to attack was perfectly legal, he just couldn't hit me from where he was standing. Nothing illegal about that.

[hustlertwo]

Bah, fine, I'll get involved. High ref override puny initiates! Ned gets his AoO, I never really saw why he wouldn't, as I don't think it's solely a player's responsibility to know when those are incurred, their opponents and refs would have to mention it since there are things that keep AoOs from happening (if this is wrong, well, then stop making me be a match ref, it's not my thing). 23 attack roll, 5 damage (the rolls being identical makes picking which one applied a fairly easy procedure). We're going back to his original turn after that, where he stayed next to Yoshi, attempted to hit, and failed due to range (since that's how it works in any other range failure situation). It's now Mav's turn, you're both next to each other.

[Bayar]

Initiate Ref Bayar

Bah, fine, I'll get involved. High ref override puny initiates! Ned gets his AoO, I never really saw why he wouldn't, as I don't think it's solely a player's responsibility to know when those are incurred, their opponents and refs would have to mention it since there are things that keep AoOs from happening (if this is wrong, well, then stop making me be a match ref, it's not my thing). 23 attack roll, 5 damage (the rolls being identical makes picking which one applied a fairly easy procedure). We're going back to his original turn after that, where he stayed next to Yoshi, attempted to hit, and failed due to range (since that's how it works in any other range failure situation). It's now Mav's turn, you're both next to each other.

Wat.

Ned readied an action to attack Yoshi if he camw within range of his weapon. Yoshi went at him, triggering both Ned's readied action and an AoO for leaving a threatened square. Then Ned attempted to attack Yoshi in an adjecent square, which his weapon cannot acomplish.

How is this not what happened, and why you need to override "puny initiates" ?

[Sallera]

That is what happened, and what he said. He's just taking the rolls for the failed attack as the AoO.

[hustlertwo]

It's a joke, Bayar. I'm not running you down, as I personally don't know much about the rules (I'm one of the high refs who is more focused on things like match calls or making/updating rounds), but in this case I do know a bit more about Arena precedent than you due to having a lot more matches. And what you described actually is what happened, but when someone attempts to attack an enemy who is out of their range, they typically do not get a rewind. Arena precedent says that only truly illegal actions get those; ill-advised ones, like attacking an enemy who is too close or too far away (like trying to Color Spray an opponent who's 20 feet away, or things of that nature, as it usually comes up with spells) are simply lost actions. So going by precedent, Ned got his readied attack, which whiffed, and the AoO, which hit (I think), and then attempted to attack on his turn and chuffed it by not moving back to put Yoshi in range. Thus, we are at Yoshi's turn.

Actually, Sallera, I think these rolls were for the AoO, weren't they? He rolled them twice.

[Sallera]

Rolled them for his Round 9 attack twice. He never actually stated he was taking the AoO.

[hustlertwo]

Then he needs to roll for the AoO, I guess.


Refs, not holding up play

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Why would he roll for the same round twice? Oh, and Sallera, looks like it's just about time for us to have the round 75 finals.

[Sallera]

Refs:

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Because he thought he got a rewind due to not being in range. And aye, it is. Finally. Incidentally, why are we spoilering this?

[hustlertwo]

Refs (still not holding up play, carry on)

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I didn't feel like sending a PM out, and there's no sense getting off-topic in the middle of a match. And it seems like his old roll would have counted for the round, since he was rolling it for the same thing (namely, the round whatever number attack. But I don't really know what RAW or precedent is for keeping a roll in that situation.

[Sallera]

Refs:

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Oh, he certainly should have kept the roll. He just appears to be rather new at this, despite being a returning gladiator.

[hustlertwo]

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Of course, he kept it anyhow, despite the improbability of achieving the same roll twice in a row on two different dice.

[lord sarthax]

AoO I guess.
attack
(1d20+6)[19]
damage
(1d8+4)[9]

[lord sarthax]

That should be a +7 not a +6 making it a 20. Doubt it matters though.

[hustlertwo]

I know we had some confusion there, so I won't hand down any DQs. But Mav, it's been your go for a couple days now.

[hustlertwo]

Hmmm, looks like Mav's seriously gone, no posts in here for a week and hasn't even logged on for almost four days.

Yoshi is disqualified, Ned is victorious!