LGBTitp - Part Six

[Elentari]

thubby's right about sneaky=attracting security. Maybe just saunter into the men's dressing room with both guy and girl clothes. If anyone gives you funny looks, just say "They're for my *fillintheblankhere*"

[Ostien]

So uh... How does one go about purchasing clothes of the opposite sex without feeling incredibly awkward?

The best I've got so far is: "Hi, I'm getting this for my girlfriend... is there a male changing room nearby?"

As for buying feminine gendered clothing as a male bodied individual, i have this to say: Thrift stores are your friend Seriously no one at a place like that will give you two looks. There are many types of thrift stores but one like a salvation army are usually best for being completely invisible. Stuff there is so cheap that they are hardly concerned with observing anyone (but you can still get really really good finds like designer clothes for under ten bucks). Though places like that tend not to have dressing rooms, at most something like a movable divider. So that may be a big minus

On the other hand the higher end "resale" shops operate more like normal department stores and may be just as awkward with respect to the observations and reactions of the staff. Also yeah acting shifty at a place like that may cause you to get more attention then you want. So yeah I have found that the seedier the better really as far as stores go, as odd as that sounds.

I also agree finding a female friend to go with is a great option, but understandably hard if you are not out as a crossdresser/genderqueer/bigender/trans/(inset more awesome gender funky options here) or as you said you don't know anyone that you think would help/understand. But seriously think about taking the plunge and coming out to some cisgenderd girl. You'd be surprised at how accepting cisgirls can be with people in your situation (I sure was), and hey they get a shopping buddy and you get the benefit of their accumulated knowledge on the subject of all things fem that they have probably been exposed to.

I guess I'll stop my rambling, hope some of that was helpful.

Also, Welcome Danne ::waves::

[Lix Lorn]

I talked to my GP today.

[Danne]

Also, Welcome Danne ::waves::

Thank you! ::waves back::

Also, I want to clarify that when I suggested "hiding/smuggling" the girl clothes, I meant more "stick a skirt between two men's polo shirts" as opposed to "fold the skirt up and bundle it in a pair of jeans," the former being something that would shield the article of clothing from casual view enroute to the changing room while still looking completely natural, and the latter likely to get you in trouble if security sees you. So bad choice of wording on my part, I apologize.

[Thufir]

IIRC, Dogmantra is from the UK... we don't have much in the way of security people in clothes shops.
Charity shops are also a good suggestion. I mean, in some they don't even label separate male and female sections, which gives you easy deniability if you want it

[Ostien]

Thank you! ::waves back::

Also, I want to clarify that when I suggested "hiding/smuggling" the girl clothes, I meant more "stick a skirt between two men's polo shirts" as opposed to "fold the skirt up and bundle it in a pair of jeans," the former being something that would shield the article of clothing from casual view enroute to the changing room while still looking completely natural, and the latter likely to get you in trouble if security sees you. So bad choice of wording on my part, I apologize.

Oh no thats what I assumed you and other meant by all means (actually I didn't think otherwise until you said that). I was just saying that doing the whole feet shifting thing and looking around over your shoulder and just generally awkward may illicit some not so pleasant reactions from the loss prevention/security staff if they are present. So basically anyone doing this would have to be comfortable which is somewhat why I suggested seedy thrift stores in which no one really notices anything you do. Sometimes its nice to be invisible and not have to deal with being observed/judged. Sad though that this has to be an issue, but oh well gotta make the best of it

Oh yeah, @thufir I am talking from a American point of view, so that may make some of what I suggested irrelevant. Didn't know that though that the UK has less security at clothing stores. Here it is much more present, sometimes people who are supposed to like customers walk around to keep an eye on shoppers. The more you know

[Dihan]

I talked to my GP today.

All good I hope!

I also like the Arbok Gijinka avatar you have.

[Fay Graydon]

I talked to my GP today.

Awesome hun! ^^
What happened? =3
tells us all about it ^^

[Dogmantra]

Oh yeah, @thufir I am talking from a American point of view, so that may make some of what I suggested irrelevant. Didn't know that though that the UK has less security at clothing stores. Here it is much more present, sometimes people who are supposed to like customers walk around to keep an eye on shoppers. The more you know

They have that sort of security in the bigger shops, but to get to one of those, I'd have to drive and something tells me "Hey dad, can you take me to Matalan, I want to buy some women's clothing" won't work. I shan't be too worried about security.

(Though chances are I'll still not go, perhaps due to laziness)

[Fay Graydon]

They have that sort of security in the bigger shops, but to get to one of those, I'd have to drive and something tells me "Hey dad, can you take me to Matalan, I want to buy some women's clothing" won't work. I shan't be too worried about security.

(Though chances are I'll still not go, perhaps due to laziness)

Actually that line works for me XD
I recently bought some new bras in C cup as I'm supposedly getting some C cup fake bewbs for my birthday till I have real ones ^^

[Dihan]

Something just occurred to me...

I unknowingly somehow managed to gravitate towards people who were LGBT. My gaydar has always been on the fritz, maybe it's just a subconscious thing and I just have to trust it more.

Yeah, I have a lesbian friend and a gay friend of that lesbian friend. The lesbian friend also gained a position in the next academic year in the LGBT Union in my university too. I didn't join it because every time I went to a Clubs and Societies fair they weren't there.

I'm not a complete failure!

[Fay Graydon]

Something just occurred to me...

I unknowingly somehow managed to gravitate towards people who were LGBT. My gaydar has always been on the fritz, maybe it's just a subconscious thing and I just have to trust it more.

Yeah, I have a lesbian friend and a gay friend of that lesbian friend. The lesbian friend also gained a position in the next academic year in the LGBT Union in my university too. I didn't join it because every time I went to a Clubs and Societies fair they weren't there.

I'm not a complete failure!

there are LGBT unions at unis and stuff? O.O
I'm pretty sure I'm the only TG in my collage and only know of 3 G and a few L/B girls so yeah >.>

[Thufir]

there are LGBT unions at unis and stuff? O.O
I'm pretty sure I'm the only TG in my collage and only know of 3 G and a few L/B girls so yeah >.>

Yeah. You didn't know that?
People are more likely to be open about these things in uni I think. It's a big time for coming out of your shell in various ways.

[Ostien]

Yeah. You didn't know that?
People are more likely to be open about these things in uni I think. It's a big time for coming out of your shell in various ways.

Same in America, most universities have an LGBT group on campus not just in the areas you'd expect either. Academia in general is a great safe haven, I love it, you can pretty much openly be a freak! I'm so excited I'm going to grad school in the fall

[Coidzor]

Fayte: If that's truly the case and not the result of you not being very aware of what's going on at your uni, I feel very bad for you. I really, really hope that you'll take a look and find something that'll pleasantly surprise you.

no one really cared.

Pretty much this.

So uh... How does one go about purchasing clothes of the opposite sex without feeling incredibly awkward?

You shop at stores that also have male changing rooms, you use them to try on women's clothing, and you don't over analyze everything or dwell on the what-ifs.

The only thing that makes it awkward is if you act awkward or creepy about it. If you feel the need to explain yourself, well, THAT'S the problem right there. The demons you need to vanquish being inside you, not monsters you'll encounter on the path.

Hiding the clothes with male ones just prolongs and heightens the feelings of shame and confirms them as being justified.

[Dogmantra]

You seem rather well versed in the semantics of drag, Coidy Woidy... is there something you're not telling us?

[Coidzor]

You seem rather well versed in the semantics of drag, Coidy Woidy... is there something you're not telling us?

No, at least not to my knowledge. I don't believe I have a whole lot of knowledge on such subjects, I just have a smattering of pop psychology and am not ashamed to say that I have crossdressed before. Admittedly, I've only done it in a humorous context, but I don't really care about wearing women's clothing. I care about how I'm treated and put an end to things once I felt myself experiencing abuse at the hands of some of my friends, but I'd do it again.

I believe I've mentioned a bit about it, not sure if it was in here or the RWA thread about the last time I did so. Anyway, I have a very strong sense of right and wrong, a result of the child abuse inherent in a religious upbringing, such that I very strongly disapprove of reinforcing feelings of shame. If one feels ashamed, either one needs to change one's behavior or one is feeling shame over something that one should not feel shame for. In which case, the person's way of thinking needs to be modified. It's rather inhuman and callous at times, but here it seems to be a bit more forgiving and more about helping people than bemoaning the belief that grows stronger within me every so often that mankind is not actually improving itself.

I've actually been meaning to find a dress that fits me for awhile now. Problem is I'm fat enough to have really bad quality A-cups. Which means I'd have to really look hard to find something that would even come close to flattering my figure considering dresses for tall women emphasize their elongated, slim forms. Considering that my ex had trouble finding things as a 5'11" woman, I sometimes feel leery about how much time and effort it would take for a 6'1" man.

[Danne]

I talked to my GP today.

"GP" = grandparents?

And congrats! Hope things went well for you.

[Dogmantra]

"GP" = grandparents?

General Practioner, or doctor, if I guess correctly.

[Fay Graydon]

General Practioner, or doctor, if I guess correctly.

correct :P

[Danne]

If one feels ashamed, either one needs to change one's behavior or one is feeling shame over something that one should not feel shame for. In which case, the person's way of thinking needs to be modified. It's rather inhuman and callous at times, but here it seems to be a bit more forgiving and more about helping people than bemoaning the belief that grows stronger within me every so often that mankind is not actually improving itself.

Well yes, ideally a person should be able to be completely confident in him- and/or herself such that the opinions or perceived opinions of others do not cause feelings of shame. Personally, I don't really understand how someone else's opinions have any bearing on me (unless their opinions cause them to react in a violent or otherwise harmful manner toward me) -- I figured out that out when the kids in my fifth grade class treated me nicely when I wore one pair of pants and bullied me when I wore another. My clothing does not change me, so why should it affect how they treat me?

But some people need to take baby steps. If a person is too nervous to purchase women's clothing because of possible shame if someone notices, then, IMO, the first step should be to find away to keep people from noticing. (Most people probably won't notice in the first place, but having a metaphorical security blanket is never a bad thing.) Making that first step gets that person comfortable with the idea of buying girls' clothes and familiarizes them with the process. Hopefully, after two or three times, that person would then feel comfortable just marching in and buying what they want.

Or so it would seem to me.

General Practioner, or doctor, if I guess correctly.

Ah. Thanks.

Well, still. Congrats are still in order.

[Jacklu]

Something just occurred to me...

I unknowingly somehow managed to gravitate towards people who were LGBT. My gaydar has always been on the fritz, maybe it's just a subconscious thing and I just have to trust it more.

Yeah, I have a lesbian friend and a gay friend of that lesbian friend. The lesbian friend also gained a position in the next academic year in the LGBT Union in my university too. I didn't join it because every time I went to a Clubs and Societies fair they weren't there.

I'm not a complete failure!

Oddly, I noticed this exact same thing about myself at some point. As it stands, I have more transsexual friends online then I have friends total offline. Not complaining, granted. Gives me a wonderful support group. ^_^

[golentan]

So, right now I'm wondering if I have low testosterone. Like, improperly functioning gland low. There have been things over the years: My late onset puberty, wide hips, inability to grow facial hair, low aggression, consistently skewed to feminine brain (for example, on the test floating around here earlier) and difficulty with the functionality of certain things... They work, just not as well as they're supposed to, you understand. *Ahem*

Also, I tend to attract people who have interest in women: I've only had a single relationship where the other person was purely interested in men, and I've wound up making out with self avowed "lesbians" and "Straight men" more times than I can count (7). Prenatal testing everyone was sure I'd be a girl before I popped out (no DNA tests and they couldn't get a clear ultrasound but everything else looked female).

And... now that I'm losing weight... I have breasts. Not big ones, you understand, but definite A cups. Enough that my shirts hang wrong. Enough that I have underhang. I could dismiss them when I was heavier, but they're still there now. Maybe they'll go away, but they've stayed the same size over the last 30 lbs. I have no idea if it's worth asking my doctor about this.

Be pretty funny if I did, all things considering.

[Coidzor]

Yeah, if they persist without shrinking due to losing weight and building muscle mass, yeah.

Certain things can cause the development of breasts in conjunction with being overweight though. I believe they've found that certain tea tree oil beauty/hygiene products seem to help things along.

[Serpentine]

Maybe you're intersexed? Is it bad that I think that'd be kinda neat? <.< Probably worth talking to your doctor, though, anyway.

there are LGBT unions at unis and stuff? O.O

I don't think we have an LGBT union or anything like that at my uni, but the Queer Space has been reinstated after the Young Liberal debacle a few years ago, and there's something called "AllyUNE" around. I'll go look at this sign, see if it says what it is...
It has a website. Just a sec...
Lets see... Some sort of research project ("Addressing Hidden Factors that Impinge upon (GLBTI) Student Retention in Teaching and Learning"), "Ally Training", "The UNE Ally Network is a program to raise awareness about the issues faced by gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and intersex (GLBTI) staff and students. It consists of a network of staff and students who, after pre-requisite training, identify as ALLIES. The intention of the Ally program is to provide enough visibility and awareness of GLBTI that it can influence a cultural change in UNE community attitudes. The support UNE Ally Network members provide is informal and amounts to being a person who GLBTI staff or students feel they can speak freely and safely to, and mix with without fear of negativity. Allies also have resource information they can share and should someone be wanting professional advice Allies know where to refer the person for assistance.

The UNE Ally Network members do not address grievance issues or provide counselling. Grievances are dealt with through Employment Equity & Diversity or Student Equity. Counselling, for both staff and students, is provided by professional counsellors in Student Assist. Allies are a point of contact and referral for these concerns.

The members of the Ally Network are committed to creating an inclusive and respectful culture at UNE for its GLBTI community."...
Well. This is a big step up from the "Heterosexual Officer" and "Heterosexual of the Year Competition" of a few years ago.

[albis]

wow. There's nothing like this where I'm from, but at the academy I go to there's lots of gay-lesbian-whatever people... no one pays us any mind, everyone blends perfectly in with everyone else :)

[Rauthiss]

Maybe you're intersexed? Is it bad that I think that'd be kinda neat? <.< Probably worth talking to your doctor, though,

Not at all. I've always found the concept of intersexuals incredibly fascinating, and I'm incredibly jealous of actual intersexed individuals.

[Coidzor]

That's definitely a unique stance to take, considering all of the crap they have to deal with just with the metaphysics of their existence and then there's the actual physiology and medicine.

You know, it is possible for people to have hormonal imbalances without having a transcription error, Serps.

It's like jumping to the conclusion that someone has herpes because they're itching when it could just as well be some detergent left on their clothes.

Hell, there's even Klinefelters who aren't intersexed, at least not by the usual definition I've seen used. Most of the time it seems to be referring to hermaphroditism and individuals whose gonads are housed in the opposite sex's tubing.

[golentan]

I feel pretty comfortably male. Though I wouldn't feel uncomfortable being female. As per my signature, I don't have time for existential crises. I do think the intersex conclusion is big leap to make just yet, right now I'm just wondering if I should get a blood test for hormonal funkiness in the light of the history of weirdness I have, or whether I'm reading too much into things and should give it another 6 months or so and see if I lose the breasts.

Though that might be disappointing if I did. Sure, on the one hand they might be associated with health problems, but on the other hand for the moment I have breasts in my preferred size that I can play with any time I want to...

[Serpentine]

I said "maybe", followed by information that might indicate even that "maybe" to be a peculiar bit of wishful thinking. It was a long way from "OH EM GEE GOLLY! U'R LIEK TOTALLY HERMAPHRODITE! =O