LGBTitp - Part Six

[Kobold-Bard]

I think what K-B was getting at was that the person in question was transgender and biologically female?

Indeed. He has decided he is a gay man, not a woman, and took offence to me referring to him as a female. I R confuz, but as long as I don't try to grope him, I should be fine.

[Dogmantra]

>.O

Kind of like that.

Well in that case it would have been acceptable if he didn't know about it.

[AmberVael]

Well in that case it would have been acceptable if he didn't know about it.

I was referring to what you just said.

"transgender and biologically female"

Technically? Correct.
Socially... that's not really something you should say. Say transmale. Don't say "biologically ____." It's not really polite.

[Dogmantra]

Socially... that's not really something you should say. Say transmale. Don't say "biologically ____." It's not really polite.

Ah, alrighty. It's very hard to pick a term that actually conveys everything you mean when they're all rather similar. But I probably should have given it more thought, 'cause I can think of at least one other way of saying it that avoids the whole issue, so my apologies.

[Lix Lorn]

I don't get awkward about pronouns. When referring to myself on Skype, I tend to use zie and hir cause I can't be bothered to pick one and stick with it. XD

[Dogmantra]

When referring to myself on Skype, I tend to use zie and hir cause I can't be bothered to pick one and stick with it. XD

You also tend to use the third person apparently?

[Lix Lorn]

Lix finds that the third person entertains Lix.

[Worira]

I was referring to what you just said.

"transgender and biologically female"

Technically? Correct.
Socially... that's not really something you should say. Say transmale. Don't say "biologically ____." It's not really polite.

Nitpicking word choice at people who are sympathetic towards you is a really good way to alienate yourself.

[blackfox]

Fixed it fur you.

I see wat u did ther.

[Danne]

Indeed. He has decided he is a gay man, not a woman, and took offence to me referring to him as a female. I R confuz, but as long as I don't try to grope him, I should be fine.

Ah. Well then he's not a "woman" who yelled at you. Though that's no reason for him to be rude to you for making an honest mistake.

Nitpicking word choice at people who are sympathetic towards you is a really good way to alienate yourself.

I'd say there's a difference between nitpicking and educating someone. Though I guess I'm in the minority there? I prefer to be corrected if I'm wrong but my brother says that most people don't like to be corrected. I do not understand this.

[AmberVael]

Nitpicking word choice at people who are sympathetic towards you is a really good way to alienate yourself.

Nitpicking implies... triviality. That is to say, I think you're downplaying the issue too far.

To say "biologically _____" is a pretty major faux pas, at least in the community I'm familiar with (though an unfortunately common one, which is why I didn't go rabid over it). I'm not trying to snootily correct terms (though I may not have had the best attitude, for which I apologize), but rather, tell someone that the language they are using is downright rude, and socially unacceptable to the community being addressed.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I don't really agree, but that's my personal experience, since the group of transmales I've become involved with over the past few months will often explain themselves as "biologically female".

[Serpentine]

Here is one of the times places on the Internet where I feel I can say "ROFL" without being deceptive.

Sooo... You left your chair, and rolled on the floor laughing?

I was referring to what you just said.

"transgender and biologically female"

Technically? Correct.
Socially... that's not really something you should say. Say transmale. Don't say "biologically ____." It's not really polite.

But it's true, and is helpful for clarification for people not familiar with the lingo

[Coidzor]

Me, I just hope Kobold Bard's friend manages to figure out what's going on and manages to avoid any kind of cycle of groping blindly in the dark.

Expecting friends to somehow know things without being told in contradiction to previously intimated intelligence and then laying into them over it doesn't fill me with confidence though.

[Kobold-Bard]

Me, I just hope Kobold Bard's friend manages to figure out what's going on and manages to avoid any kind of cycle of groping blindly in the dark.

Expecting friends to somehow know things without being told in contradiction to previously intimated intelligence and then laying into them over it doesn't fill me with confidence though.

It wasn't proper anger, just a bit of venting (I think) because he'd had another of "the talks" with his family the day before and it didn't go brilliantly.

[Quincunx]

Me, I just hope Kobold Bard's friend manages to figure out what's going on and manages to avoid any kind of cycle of groping blindly in the dark.

Expecting friends to somehow know things without being told in contradiction to previously intimated intelligence and then laying into them over it doesn't fill me with confidence though.

Most people exist and think in mono, I'm starting to think. Bring up their existence in stereo (you used to be this, now you are that, and this and that are contradictory and true, and I perceive both) and they'll blast you one. Conscious doublethink, circular and self-supporting thought, is the tool.

[golentan]

EDIT: Hey, interesting thought! Since Pokemon have to do what their owners tell them to, who would be the dom in the relationship?

Ideally, the Pokemon.

A healthy Dom/Sub relationship hinges on the idea that when the Sub says "Enough" it is so instantly and without question, without the possibility of travelling further down the offending action path. Especially not with some sort of coercion.

On the current page: Humans and Gender, once again. Honestly, it never ceases to amaze me the extent to which you people psychologically damage yourselves over the smallest things. Arrangement of Fluid sacks. The appearance of a mammary gland. Years of repression (sometimes externalized: even violently) over finding yourself physically attracted to a different group of members of your own species than you assumed you would as a child. And Botox. Ashen Thirteenth, Botox. Who decided that they were more upset by the appearance of wrinkles as they aged than afraid of injecting botulism, one of the more potent *nerve toxins,* into their *head.* Supposedly the site of a nervous system allegedly capable of rational thought.

And you know what I realized recently? The people I know undergoing stress related depression are doing so as a result of their working conditions. They selected the jobs inflicting these depressive episodes to placate their families. Who pressured them to seek more competitive (and hence stressful) educations and professions solely in an attempt to guarantee their future happiness.

That's right. They are doing something they hate because their families want them to be happy, and refuse to leave because their families think that they won't be as happy if they do. And so they chug happy pills by the truckload to avoid suicidal behaviors, which means they have to worry about financing their psychiatrist's visits, which further adds to stress. All because someone else decided years back that they'd be happiest in a few general lines of work, and guilt trips them when they try to stray to something more personally satisfying.

I'm about half an inch from deciding that everyone I know is part of some big set up to mess with my head, and that if I call them on it Candid Camera will come out from inside my closet and say "That's right, we spent decades and a global conspiracy to act in completely nonsensical and counterproductive ways simply to lead to this moment of confusion you see before you." It almost makes more sense to me than the idea that people can become so emotionally dependent on a physical trait that it consumes their lives to such an extent, or that they'd let other people's desire to help and perceptions of their emotional state lead them into situations that damage that emotional state.

I realize that it's an actual affliction, and once an affliction is present you must deal with it rather than repress it into something worse, but WHY IS IT A PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE?!!! Why is it that the arrangement of a few cubic inches of flesh is so painful as to require the use of hormonal replacements and invasive surgery procedures to get a fascimile of a slightly different arrangement of the same basic substructure (a few glands, fluid sack, cavity)? And given that it evidently is so painful, why is it made such a hurdle and social stigma to jump through? It's all driving me insane!

[Serpentine]

And you know what I realized recently? The people I know undergoing stress related depression are doing so as a result of their working conditions. They selected the jobs inflicting these depressive episodes to placate their families. Who pressured them to seek more competitive (and hence stressful) educations and professions solely in an attempt to guarantee their future happiness.

Huh. That's an interesting way of looking at it. No personal experience of it, myself (everyone, including me, just assumed I'd go to uni. Would've been a surprise if I hadn't, for all of us, but there wasn't actually any pressure), but it sounds about right.

No comment on the rest.

[AmberVael]

But it's true, and is helpful for clarification for people not familiar with the lingo

Doesn't make it any more polite, at least with the people I know.

[Serpentine]

Not something you want to rub in their face, perhaps, but when explaining a situation it seems more than reasonable to me.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Because I know people who aren't offended by it, I think its more a case by case PC basis, like how some are offended by being called black as opposed to African American, or how some people would rather be called homosexual than gay.

[Scorpina]

Exactly, everyone has different preferences in terminology and different terms of offence. I find it safest to check with people whenever possible. Of course, that can in itself lead to awkwardness, but such is life.

[Lord Raziere]

Exactly, everyone has different preferences in terminology and different terms of offence. I find it safest to check with people whenever possible. Of course, that can in itself lead to awkwardness, but such is life.

good! don't call me idiotic, uncreative, narcissistic or self-righteous and your fine with me!

of course, not exactly what your talking about, but I think it still applies.

[Scorpina]

good! don't call me idiotic, uncreative, narcissistic or self-righteous and your fine with me!

of course, not exactly what your talking about, but I think it still applies.

What about if I call you 'Captain Captainson'?

[Lord Raziere]

What about if I call you 'Captain Captainson'?

don't know watchya mean by that so I feel nuthin'.

[Scorpina]

I was just picking a random name as a joke. It obviously didn't work.

I feel it's best if we all just move on with our lives now.

[Raistlin1040]

I find "transman" and "transwoman" to be needlessly complicated. It doesn't lend itself well to people who aren't familiar with it. After all, you could interpret a transman as a MAN who is a TRANSsexual, or a TRANSsexual who identifies as a MAN. Yes, calling someone who feels like they are, and should be, a woman a "biologically male" person might be somewhat faux pas, but it's the simplest way to explain it, and it's not like they're lying. Generally, I prefer descriptions like MtF and FtM, because they explain what they are in the term.

I generally prefer genderfrak for myself, but that's because I am "Other" on the gender binary, so...

[Delusion]

All this talk about pronouns makes me happy that Finnish doesn't have gender specific pronouns. Though lack of them causes endless hilarity when you need to translate something.

[Jacklu]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

I think that clarifies the whole "Gender pronoun confusion" issue.

Though, personally, I do prefer MtF and FtM when trying to convey a person's gender/sex in conversations like this. At least initially. After that "he" and "she" work perfectly fine.

Also, *glomps Amber and cuddles*

Also, also, Jackie has... been giving consideration to possibly seeking counseling and maybe looking into hormone therapy in the near future.

[Xzeno]

Finnish is an awesome language. Otherwise, all I have to say on pronouns is that I will never EVER use "they" as a gender-neutral singular pronoun (unless by accident). I use "he or she". Sometimes "he".

Sooo... You left your chair, and rolled on the floor laughing?

No. That's not what happened at all. I wish I owned a chair.

As for the pokemon discussion, it's over, and I'm not about to make any comment tied to this user name. That's all I'm saying.