LGBTitp - Part Six

[Coidzor]

Well, I imagine there's a couple of camps on it, probably. I'm of the opinion that if one is not living full-time as a member of the opposite sex (pre-op considerations here) to the point where one no longer feels the need for some term to differentiate it from being dressed, then it's the simplest and best-fitting term to convey one's meaning without having to invent a new term.

So, someone who is trans who has made the switch of what sex they live as in society(need a better thing to call it, but functionally this fits), regardless of hormones and surgeries and such, would not be referred to as crossdressing, since that is both how they dress normally and the appropriate attire for the persona they show to the world.

Someone who is trans but has yet to make the switch, even if they have started taking hormones, is still in the place where crossdressing is the best way to describe it as it is not their norm nor does it fit with the persona they put out into the world around them.

The one downside that occurs to me is that it either becomes odd to apply crossdressing to the attire one grew up wearing or one has to do away with the ability of a post-switch trans individual to crossdress by this interpretation of things.

Which doesn't seem like much of a downside to my sensibilities, but, YMMV.

[Quincunx]

Meh. If these folk (that's a plural used as a plural, folks, not as a gender-neutral singular--see other current thread) cross over the great gender divide, then there's a bit of their lives left on either side, and yes, at least one of those sides will always be cross-: it's part of the cost.

I'm a bit confused as to what's the point on a child that small.

Waiting for them to squirm when the knowledge hits, later in life. Or the charm of a sweet innocent little voice saying, "I don't get it".

[Danne]

Waiting for them to squirm when the knowledge hits, later in life. Or the charm of a sweet innocent little voice saying, "I don't get it".

Also to make the movie more interesting to parents when they watch it with their kids. Obligatory TV Tropes link.

[Lix Lorn]

I find it morbidly amusing that in this thread, and no other-anywhere-we can talk about 'Oh, I wish my parts were smaller. and get a chorus of agreement. XD

[Quincunx]

Oh, the Girl Thread had plenty of that.

[Asta Kask]

Ok, this ticks me off.

Lesbian student sent to fake prom.
Fake prom staged to trick lesbian kids.

Good thing the ACLU is on the case.

[Coidzor]

^: Ahh, prom season. Full of far too much drama and shenanigans for anyone's good.

Oh, goody! It's a continuation of the Mississippi debacle.

I must say though, I'm surprised at how much effort the school put into this. I mean, they're notoriously lazy...

Also to make the movie more interesting to parents when they watch it with their kids. Obligatory TV Tropes link.

I thought the person in question was talking about doing it to the kids themselves. Not via some kind of movie.

[Quincunx]

Ah, segregation. Who keeps thinking it's going to go unnoticed? Who keeps forgetting the "but equal" part without which segregation even fails in theory?

[Pyrian]

Oh, the Girl Thread had plenty of that.

...I imagine there was rather more dissent. Albeit from the guys...

[Lix Lorn]

...maybe so. XD

What. -_- Aaargh. Stupid bigoted people... maybe I can take a leaf from Chloe's book and eat them.

[Coidzor]

Chloe?

Also, either of the two interpretations for that would be decidedly bad for your health.

[Lix Lorn]

My nickname for Closak.
Not particularly, as this hypothetical situation involves me turning into a dragon. If I'm gonna fantasize wildly, by gosh, i'm gonna fantasize WILDLY.

[Coidzor]

You... You named... him Chloe. Ow.

[Lyesmith]

You... You named... him Chloe. Ow.

That's Cruel. Then again, I just don't like the name Chole.

[Lix Lorn]

I like the name Chloe. XD
Besides. Clo-sak. Clo. It was a logical step.
For me.

In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed!

[Kneenibble]

I find it morbidly amusing that in this thread, and no other-anywhere-we can talk about 'Oh, I wish my parts were smaller. and get a chorus of agreement. XD

I find it amusing that even in this thread we can have a room full of supposedly not-male males who still can't resist comparing the size of their unwanted appendages with each other. It's really one of the most fundamental male behavior patterns.

[Lix Lorn]

Just to point out: I didn't. I metacommented. xD

[StereoWaste]

Hello hello~

I am new to the forum, and pansexual though pretty much a lesbian and while I am not very infiltrated into the gay community in my town, I wouldn't mind getting to know some people on here. (:

I read the article on the fake prom awhile back and just so surprised that this little controversy caused so much problems. One of those things you have to just sit back and marvel at.

[Coidzor]

^: Welcome! And yeah. Definitely was a lot more shenanigans than you'd expect anyone to have patience for.

Just one of those snowballing pile of insanity sort of deals, I guess. Morbidly amusing at times too.

Just to point out: I didn't. I metacommented. xD

You mean meta-metacommented since I think we were already in a meta-commentary at the time.

Kneen: What's more interesting was the bragging about it while complaining about it initially.

[Lix Lorn]

Okay, I meta-metacommented.

Heya and Welcome!

[Rutskarn]

and while I am not very infiltrated into the gay community in my town

I have this lovely image of black-clad, sunken-eyed gentlemen rappelling through a skylight. They touch down like spiders in a darkened room--one strikes a flare, and the room is thrown into harsh light, a nest of throw pillows, rainbow posters, and wine coolers. One of the agents presses the button on his vox; "We're in."

[Danne]

Ok, this ticks me off.

Lesbian student sent to fake prom.
Fake prom staged to trick lesbian kids.

Good thing the ACLU is on the case.

Oh dear. That poor girl's been through enough already. I wish they would stop giving her a hard time.

[Quincunx]

And, this being the enlightened century, one of those gentlemen has to peel off the balaclava to reveal high cheekbones and speak in a female timbre.

I find it amusing that even in this thread we can have a room full of supposedly not-male males who still can't resist comparing the size of their unwanted appendages with each other. It's really one of the most fundamental male behavior patterns.

And would you be fulfilling another quintessential male behavior pattern with shameless ogling of the sexual bits, on the grounds that no display should go to waste?

[fknm]

Oh dear. That poor girl's been through enough already. I wish they would stop giving her a hard time.

To be fair, the media has done a pretty biased job covering this.

The girl wasn't banned for being a lesbian; she was banned for stating her intentions to violate the dress code. She used her sexuality to try to force the district to bend to her will, which fired off a huge "poopstorm". All things considered, I can't really blame the other students for having quite a bit of resentment for her.

[Danne]

To be fair, the media has done a pretty biased job covering this.

The girl wasn't banned for being a lesbian; she was banned for stating her intentions to violate the dress code. She used her sexuality to try to force the district to bend to her will, which fired off a huge "poopstorm". All things considered, I can't really blame the other students for having quite a bit of resentment for her.

Not sure where you got that idea. She did ask if she could wear a tux, and was turned down (because if the school allowed girls to wear boy clothes, they'd have to allow boys to wear girl clothes, which clearly would have caused the Four Horsemen to descend upon them or something) but she was also told that if she and her girlfriend were caught acting like a couple (slow dancing, holding hands, kissing, etc.) they would be thrown out.

And they didn't ban her. They told her that she couldn't openly spend the night with someone she loves, and then they cancelled the whole prom when she was brave enough to ask for help from the ACLU. Which she had every right to do, because her rights were being violated. The students were angry at her because their school cancelled prom when they should have been angry at their school for being too wussy to face the lawsuit and cancelling the prom to try to escape it.

[fknm]

but she was also told that if she and her girlfriend were caught acting like a couple (slow dancing, holding hands, kissing, etc.) they would be thrown out.

This contradicts the fact that she wasn't allowed to bring her date. Why set rules on what happens if she "acts like a couple" if her date isn't allowed in the first place?

And they didn't ban her. They told her that she couldn't openly spend the night with someone she loves,

So, they enforced their rules that they have full discretion on who to allow out of people who don't go the school? Oh noes, the oppression!

and then they cancelled the whole prom when she was brave enough to ask for help from the ACLU.

They canceled the whole prom when her histrionics threatened to turn it into a complete circus.

Which she had every right to do, because her rights were being violated.

No, the school enforced its rules impartially. She went to the ACLU, who she knew would throw a big fit, and hoped she could get her way. She didn't.

The students were angry at her because their school cancelled prom when they should have been angry at their school for being too wussy to face the lawsuit and cancelling the prom to try to escape it.

Haha, "too wussy to face the lawsuit"? What, like a small town school has the resources to fight the ACLU? Give me a break.

I grew up in a small rural town. Believe it or not, they don't live up to the stereotypes. However, every once in a while, some kid gets in trouble, and decides to throw a fit to the media, which plays on the stereotypes to create a story where the kid is a hero and everyone in the school, student and administration, is an ignorant inbred. Naturally, students tend to resent the student whose histrionics brought the negative attention onto their community. It happened three times while I was in high school (and no, none of those times involved race, gender, or sexuality). This sort of garbage is not new.

[Danne]

This contradicts the fact that she wasn't allowed to bring her date. Why set rules on what happens if she "acts like a couple" if her date isn't allowed in the first place?

No, she was told they couldn't come together. Her girlfriend could still come. They just weren't allowed to act like they were girlfriends.

They canceled the whole prom when her histrionics threatened to turn it into a complete circus.

How is wearing a tux and slow dancing a "complete circus"? 'Cuz I'm pretty sure that's what, you know, everyone else was planning on doing at the same event.

No, the school enforced its rules impartially.

Schools don't get to have rules that are discriminatory. Period, ever. They don't get to have rules stating that girls can't wear tuxes (or boys can't wear dresses) anymore than they can have rules saying that black people can't wear tuxes or Asians can't wear dresses.

And when they do? Then yes, the injured party gets to sue the stuffing out of them.

Haha, "too wussy to face the lawsuit"? What, like a small town school has the resources to fight the ACLU? Give me a break.

I fail to see how this is relevant. There would have been no need for a lawsuit at all if they'd just let the girl wear what she wanted. It's not like she wanted to show up naked or something; there is no harm in a tuxedo.

My high school prom? There were girls who wore tuxedos, just like most of the boys did. And one boy? He even kissed his boyfriend. Multiple times and in public. And then, OMG, they slow danced. While holding hands. Just like Constance wanted to do.

And somehow the whole thing managed to happen without the school throwing a hissy fit, cancelling anyone's fun, or otherwise making people feel like second class citizens. Go figure.

I'm not trying to make any negative statements about the south, or small towns, or small towns in the south, or the people who live therein. I couldn't possibly know anything about them because I have never been to one (hot climates do not agree with me). All I'm saying is that this particular school district in this particular small town which happens to be located in the south messed up, and the people that they hurt have a right to petition their government for a redress of grievances, the same way that everyone else does.

[Lix Lorn]

Now, even if you WERE correct, this is not the right thread to be arguing against the liberal side of the rights argument.

[fknm]

{Scrubbed}

[Worira]

Ann Coulter is the best possible source to cite.