Bleach Reborn OOC 3: Discussion

[strawberryman]

Vi's appearance is still based on Komori Kiri from Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei.

As for where I found the pic, let's just say I've done a lot of digging.

[horngeek]

I also agree with this, for the same reasons that I suggested that Vizard characters should find someone else to play their Inner Hollow. In the subjugation phase of power, the opponent actively wants to prevent you from subjugating it. I think that it's much easier to write that sort of story with two people than one. Conflict between you and yourself is sorta boring to write, and it's sorta boring to read.

As before, I will not support mandating this, for the reasons I said before.

[Lorolar]

Hey guys, on the (last threads brief) subject of unstable vizards I reposted this character idea a while back and it got completely missed in the chaos of the thread winded up.

So the character concept I've had brewing is a (very) unstable vizard, the problem lies in trying to find a way to have him there from the start and actualy having powers at that point without overshadowing anyone.

Essentialy his intended powerset is healing which when he flips (and looses control entirely until way later in the story) changes to damage equal to the healing he did ala Hanataro's Zanpukto. Obviously he wouldnt start off with any vizardness, like Ichigo really, and would start with weak healing powers. Next power jump would be completely uncontrolled masking which is a danger to others and thus prompts him to learn to at least prevent it appearing. After that comes learning to dismiss it when active, and then to turn it on. Non shinigami whose healing comes from weird gloves (either made of energy of hollowesque bone havent decided yet) and I was hoping for advice on how to go about balancing and developing through that power set. And if thats okay with everyone of course.

[Draken]

I have no inherent problems with unstable vizards myself. But one must consider that it's not an easy life.

[CMOTDibbler]

So is 10th officially the police force? I was just wondering, looking at the wiki and all... Oh, and what's the password into the wiki?

[Frozen_Feet]

The password is: Kch.

[KnightDisciple]

So is 10th officially the police force? I was just wondering, looking at the wiki and all... Oh, and what's the password into the wiki?

I don't know if we've had a 10th Captain Candidate yet. So, we can't say for sure. Since the roles are being much more clearly defined by Captains this time around.

[CMOTDibbler]

Huh I thought tvga had a candidate... and Kch as the password isn't working for me. I'm not sure why...

[Edge]

It's not "Kch". It's "Kch." with the full stop.

[XtheYeti]

...I have a question.

Is Bleach Reborn going to have a lower power level that the current BleachitP? Because I look through the regisrty thread and I see: Vice-captain, Captain, Espada, Captain, Captain, Espada, Von Giester, Vizard, Vice-Captain. And so on and so forth...I mean there are awakened humans here and there...and low-ish powered Quincy or Shinigami thrown in here and there...but the majority of characters I see are all more powerful than my character will ever be able to handle. Do I need to amp him up? Cause I don't want him to ever be down graded to a secondary tier character like Tien and Yamcha in DBZ. I don't mind if there are people that are stronger than him. Far from it. But by the look of things, Nicol Bolas will be worthless in many plots, because he wont be strong enough to pose a credible threat.

I have even been considering creating a normal Hollow as a PC. He would eventually become a Gillian, then a Odhuchas, And I was going to see if some one wanted him as their characters principal rival. But if everyone is going to be playing this powerful of characters the Hollow would be dead in 15 seconds.

[KnightDisciple]

...I have a question.

Is Bleach Reborn going to have a lower power level that the current BleachitP? Because I look through the regisrty thread and I see: Vice-captain, Captain, Espada, Captain, Captain, Espada, Von Giester, Vizard, Vice-Captain. And so on and so forth...I mean there are awakened humans here and there...and low-ish powered Quincy or Shinigami thrown in here and there...but the majority of characters I see are all more powerful than my character will ever be able to handle. Do I need to amp him up? Cause I don't want him to ever be down graded to a secondary tier character like Tien and Yamcha in DBZ. I don't mind if there are people that are stronger than him. Far from it. But by the look of things, Nicol Bolas will be worthless in many plots, because he wont be strong enough to pose a credible threat.

I have even been considering creating a normal Hollow as a PC. He would eventually become a Gillian, then a Odhuchas, And I was going to see if some one wanted him as their characters principal rival. But if everyone is going to be playing this powerful of characters the Hollow would be dead in 15 seconds.

...Have you actually counted the number of non-Captain/Espada characters?

Of my 4 characters, I have: A Captain; A Knight of the Enclave, currently at maybe, maybe extremely low seated officer level; a Kido Corps unseated, who doesn't even have Shikai; and a spiritually aware human who will, sometime soon after game start, manifest telekinesis.

Now, are the Captains strong? Sure. They're Captains. Even then, they're not that crazy. I mean, Masaru's strong, sure. But he's not OMGWTFBBQ strong (like Satoshi is >_>).

Also keep in mind that it is, in fact, possible to run more than one plot at once. Meaning that we can, in fact, match characters to the proper challenge. So you don't need to just ramp Nick up. When he's done developing, he'll be pretty potent. But just because he can't PWN everyone, doesn't mean he won't be a viable character.

[Frozen_Feet]

...and yes, it was decided early on this game will be lower power than the previous one. Spotlight's on the Mortal World - Quincys, Mediums and Unseated Shinigami will receive more focus than the Captains and Espada.

[XtheYeti]

...Have you actually counted the number of non-Captain/Espada characters?

Of my 4 characters, I have: A Captain; A Knight of the Enclave, currently at maybe, maybe extremely low seated officer level; a Kido Corps unseated, who doesn't even have Shikai; and a spiritually aware human who will, sometime soon after game start, manifest telekinesis.

Now, are the Captains strong? Sure. They're Captains. Even then, they're not that crazy. I mean, Masaru's strong, sure. But he's not OMGWTFBBQ strong (like Satoshi is >_>).

Also keep in mind that it is, in fact, possible to run more than one plot at once. Meaning that we can, in fact, match characters to the proper challenge. So you don't need to just ramp Nick up. When he's done developing, he'll be pretty potent. But just because he can't PWN everyone, doesn't mean he won't be a viable character.

No no no. I don't want Nico to be able to beat everyone. I want anyone of high end Vice-Captain, and any of Captain level to be able to beat him. Captain rank should be able to beat him pretty easy.


BTW. What does everyone think of my Regular Hollow character idea?

[Frozen_Feet]

"Don't worry, kid. If you want to be beaten to pulp, I'm always available."

"Don't worry, kid. If you want to be eaten as lunch, I'm always available."

If you want to make a normal hollow, go ahead. However, advancing to Gillian or Adjuchas is problematic, because it involves your character being chewed as bubblegum and losing his identity and inviduality in the interim. I suggest you go straight to natural Arrancar, and gain future power ups by working his ass off.

[Tackyhillbillu]

To add to Knight, I have 4 characters.

Ude. Ude's strong, but he is a captain. What the hell did you expect? And even so, he isn't insanely strong.

Aki. Aki is probably on the upper end of the power scale for the mortal world at this point. She can use Silver Tubes, which means she is fairly powerful for our mortal characters. But honestly, she still isn't all that strong. Her physical abilities are, at best, on par with an unseated. Her bow is awful. And Schele Schneiders are pretty much just beam swords that snap after two or three blows.

Tani. Tani drives on a motorbike which can fly, and hits things with Spears. That is pretty much the some total of his abilities.

The Conductor. He's... hard to classify. However, he is the Exequias of the Hueco Muendo, so he should be more powerful then most. His minions, which you will see far more often then him, are weaklings. They are physically weaker then most Shinigami, and they have one effect they produce.

---

Also, aiming to beat any of the Vice Captains? Yeah, that is way to high. Vice Captains are powerful. Your aim in power level should be, at tops, mid seated Shinigami, and equivalents. Your character can grow, but expecting to beat Vice Captains is a bit much.

[KnightDisciple]

No no no. I don't want Nico to be able to beat everyone. I want anyone of high end Vice-Captain, and any of Captain level to be able to beat him. Captain rank should be able to beat him pretty easy.


BTW. What does everyone think of my Regular Hollow character idea?

So, if it is okay that they beat him....what are you complaining about?

Your regular Hollow could be a decent foe for the Mortals and Unseated characters.

[XtheYeti]

"Don't worry, kid. If you want to be beaten to pulp, I'm always available."

"Don't worry, kid. If you want to be eaten as lunch, I'm always available."

If you want to make a normal hollow, go ahead. However, advancing to Gillian or Adjuchas is problematic, because it involves your character being chewed as bubblegum and losing his identity and inviduality in the interim. I suggest you go straight to natural Arrancar, and gain future power ups by working his ass off.

I know that it means his individuality will be gone for a while. I actually had planned for it to happen. I wanted his rival/nemisis person to think that he was beaten for good, then spring him backon them when they are powerful enough to deal with him as a awakened Gillian. And then as an Adjuchas.


My main issue is that there are just so many characters that Nico is completely out classed by. Like as in well over a quarter of the characters in the game. Pretty much 30-40% of the characters.

Nico would only be able to beat some of the lowest power Vice-Captains, and that would take all his strength, and it would be a crap shoot, basically he would need luck on his side.

[KnightDisciple]

I know that it means his individuality will be gone for a while. I actually had planned for it to happen. I wanted his rival/nemisis person to think that he was beaten for good, then spring him backon them when they are powerful enough to deal with him as a awakened Gillian. And then as an Adjuchas.


My main issue is that there are just so many characters that Nico is completely out classed by. Like as in well over a quarter of the characters in the game. Pretty much 30-40% of the characters.

Nico would only be able to beat some of the lowest power Vice-Captains, and that would take all his strength, and it would be a crap shoot, basically he would need luck on his side.

Again, I'm not sure what your actual problem is.

There are 13 Captains and the Kido Commander. All of them have Vice-Captains. By default, that's 26 people who can beat Nick.

Except, we haven't filled more than maybe half those positions.

We've got something like a dozen Mortal characters. At least that many Shinigami. A half-dozen Enclave characters. A smattering of less powerful Hollow characters.

I mean, the game hasn't started yet. We might well see more characters of this level pop up.

But we need some Captains.

What, do you want us to literally have no Captains or Vice-Captains at all? Do you want us to make the Captains weaker? Seriously, what are you asking to be done here?

[Terry576]

...I have a question.

Is Bleach Reborn going to have a lower power level that the current BleachitP? Because I look through the regisrty thread and I see: Vice-captain, Captain, Espada, Captain, Captain, Espada, Von Giester, Vizard, Vice-Captain. And so on and so forth...I mean there are awakened humans here and there...and low-ish powered Quincy or Shinigami thrown in here and there...but the majority of characters I see are all more powerful than my character will ever be able to handle. Do I need to amp him up? Cause I don't want him to ever be down graded to a secondary tier character like Tien and Yamcha in DBZ. I don't mind if there are people that are stronger than him. Far from it. But by the look of things, Nicol Bolas will be worthless in many plots, because he wont be strong enough to pose a credible threat.

I have even been considering creating a normal Hollow as a PC. He would eventually become a Gillian, then a Odhuchas, And I was going to see if some one wanted him as their characters principal rival. But if everyone is going to be playing this powerful of characters the Hollow would be dead in 15 seconds.

You know what's funny? I had the EXACT SAME IDEA.

No joke. I wanted to create virtually the exact same Hollow turning into an Adhuchas, then Vasto Lordes thing. It would've been AWESOME. I was thinking of his come back being kind of like what happened in Rave Master with Lot.

I know that it means his individuality will be gone for a while. I actually had planned for it to happen. I wanted his rival/nemisis person to think that he was beaten for good, then spring him backon them when they are powerful enough to deal with him as a awakened Gillian. And then as an Adjuchas.


My main issue is that there are just so many characters that Nico is completely out classed by. Like as in well over a quarter of the characters in the game. Pretty much 30-40% of the characters.

Nico would only be able to beat some of the lowest power Vice-Captains, and that would take all his strength, and it would be a crap shoot, basically he would need luck on his side.

The sole fact that he can beat Low-powered Vices is pretty damned impressive for a human. But the game's got another monthish to start. I've already had an entire arc planned out for Kaz, mostly revolving around his sword, a vat of hollow blood, alcohol, and really, really, REALLY bad ideas.

(Yeah, Unstable Vizard was his plan. No, the Inner Hollow won't be really important to the PLOT, just kind of something to bring up to make him go insane every now and again. Sword of Peace, Soul Of Apathy, Hollow of Bloodlust. This amuses me greatly.)

But, lets take my character sheet:

Karite - Vice Captain. Pretty powerful, but still room for improvement. (Bankai, his true Shikai.)

Isaac - Enclave Sixth Knight. Plenty of lovely backstory.

Alexas - Sixth Espada. Mostly plot character, planned backstory.

Kaz - The pure plot character. Mortal, Substitute Shinigami, no Shikai, no Bankai, terrible at Kido. This is my FAVORITE character.

Not really all that powerful out of the 4, and Karite/Alexas can't do anything for about 20 threads.

[XtheYeti]

Again, I'm not sure what your actual problem is.

There are 13 Captains and the Kido Commander. All of them have Vice-Captains. By default, that's 26 people who can beat Nick.

Except, we haven't filled more than maybe half those positions.

We've got something like a dozen Mortal characters. At least that many Shinigami. A half-dozen Enclave characters. A smattering of less powerful Hollow characters.

I mean, the game hasn't started yet. We might well see more characters of this level pop up.

But we need some Captains.

What, do you want us to literally have no Captains or Vice-Captains at all? Do you want us to make the Captains weaker? Seriously, what are you asking to be done here?

I actually don't have a problem with Captain PC's. My main question, and point, was that I thought we were going to have a generally low power game. And I made Nico to fit into that. I was simply wondering if that had changed, due to the fact that we have like....I think 15 or 15 captain possibilities. If we plan on keeping the power level lower, and the captain power level characters will have a diminished role in the game, then Nico's power level is perfect. He wont be the strongest, or the baddest, but he wont be a slouch either. I am not trying to ask anyone to lower any of their characters powers. I am simply trying to make sure that Nico does not, as I said before. Become a second tier character.

If I sound whiny and like I'm trying to start a fight I do apologize. That is not my intention.

On my Hollow PC. I have no intention of letting him become a Vasta Lordes. Ever. Maybe an Arrancar, but he would be a lower level one. Not Espada power.

[Tackyhillbillu]

Nico would only be able to beat some of the lowest power Vice-Captains, and that would take all his strength, and it would be a crap shoot, basically he would need luck on his side.

You see, this? No. Vice Captain isn't the power level to start at. In this incarnation, I think it was stated that VC would be under the same kind of restrictions as Captains, even if they would be looser.

Vice Captains are very, very powerful. They are some of the most powerful beings in the Gotei 13. Ideally (though the system probably doesn't work this way) even the weakest of them is the 26th strongest being in the entire organization.

[horngeek]

Also, aiming to beat any of the Vice Captains? Yeah, that is way to high. Vice Captains are powerful. Your aim in power level should be, at tops, mid seated Shinigami, and equivalents. Your character can grow, but expecting to beat Vice Captains is a bit much.

Izumi, at some point, will be able to beat Vice Captains.

But I expect that to take a while- it's not going to be gain Shikai and BAM, can beat someone like Ikkaku.

[strawberryman]

Then why are you looking at the previous RP?

It's been said several times, even in the opening post, that this incarnation is going to be lower-powered than our previous run. There is no comparison.

[XtheYeti]

You see, this? No. Vice Captain isn't the power level to start at. In this incarnation, I think it was stated that VC would be under the same kind of restrictions as Captains, even if they would be looser.

Vice Captains are very, very powerful. They are some of the most powerful beings in the Gotei 13. Ideally (though the system probably doesn't work this way) even the weakest of them is the 26th strongest being in the entire organization.

No no no. Nico wouldn't be a match for any of the lowest power VC's until he had reached his maximum potential. He will start out at unseated Shinigami power. As in nameless NPC power to start off.

[Frozen_Feet]

My main issue is that there are just so many characters that Nico is completely out classed by. Like as in well over a quarter of the characters in the game. Pretty much 30-40% of the characters.

Those 30% to 40% of character are also ones least likely to ever fight against or beside him. What you're saying is like claiming rifles are useless when there are nukes about. It's simply not true, because of Inverse Law of Utility and Lethality.

Also, your character doesn't need to be able to win anyone in single combat, because he's a Hero and has Power of Friendship to back him up. Forget that, and you'll just make him an Ineffectual Loner.

[Tackyhillbillu]

Izumi, at some point, will be able to beat Vice Captains.

But I expect that to take a while- it's not going to be gain Shikai and BAM, can beat someone like Ikkaku.

Oh, I'm not saying people shouldn't let their characters grow to the point where they can do that. But as a starting point (or even as an immediete goal) it places them outside the appropriate power level for this game, or so I have been lead to believe.

[XtheYeti]

No no no. Nico wouldn't be a match for any of the lowest power VC's until he had reached his maximum potential. He will start out at unseated Shinigami power. As in nameless NPC power to start off.

Nico wont start off anywhere near VC power level.

I had forgotten the power of friendship. Nico will use that.

[KnightDisciple]

X....

Of course we've got several Captains and Vice-Captains (though I think your number of "15" might be off).

You know why?

Someone has to give orders to the lower seated and unseated.

Not only that, as we've seen, the Captains help define what each Division is even about. So without that guidance, at most each Division will have only a small description to go on.

So, yes, they exist.

That doesn't mean you're going to fight them.

Will they ever enter a fight? Maybe. I mean, it would be unfair to ask people to create the characters to help run the Gotei, but tell them they can never use them. Same with the Espada.

But that doesn't negate the ability of the Mortals to assist with things.

[XtheYeti]

X....

Of course we've got several Captains and Vice-Captains (though I think your number of "15" might be off).

You know why?

Someone has to give orders to the lower seated and unseated.

Not only that, as we've seen, the Captains help define what each Division is even about. So without that guidance, at most each Division will have only a small description to go on.

So, yes, they exist.

That doesn't mean you're going to fight them.

Will they ever enter a fight? Maybe. I mean, it would be unfair to ask people to create the characters to help run the Gotei, but tell them they can never use them. Same with the Espada.

But that doesn't negate the ability of the Mortals to assist with things.

The number is probably off. But I think we had at least enough captain possibilities to have one for each of the 13 court guards.

I am happy that they exist, I am happy to have them help define their squads. And I am happy to have PC's to give orders.

As I said. I am not complaining about them. I was simply asking if I needed to upgrade Nicks power level.

[Terry576]

X....

Of course we've got several Captains and Vice-Captains (though I think your number of "15" might be off).

You know why?

Someone has to give orders to the lower seated and unseated.

Not only that, as we've seen, the Captains help define what each Division is even about. So without that guidance, at most each Division will have only a small description to go on.

So, yes, they exist.

That doesn't mean you're going to fight them.

Will they ever enter a fight? Maybe. I mean, it would be unfair to ask people to create the characters to help run the Gotei, but tell them they can never use them. Same with the Espada.

But that doesn't negate the ability of the Mortals to assist with things.

See Also: Bleach the Manga/Anime.