Tooth and Tentacle [base class PEACH]

[Hanuman]

I wouldn't naturally synergize Con with Ozo, not because it's more efficient (which it is), but because it's neither contextually appropriate to core Ozo ruleset nor is it archetype to Ozoi. That being said, durable form with other ab. feat stack gives plenty of hp without a need for con nor definitive contextualization of wound avoidance.

[Magikeeper]

I have another question - When using the Corrupting Land feat, what does "Moving" a feature mean? Does it flow off of you? What if the feature was in your stomach and you wanted to move it 5ft from you? Does it just form out of the ground?

(This came up when stuck in a situation where flowing off of me would not be possible [some kind of invisible barrier] but both vision/distance worked.)

~~~~

Would the "one's form in miniature" feat allow the Ozodrin to count as a of itself for Sinister Image? Would it already count as a depiction of itself without the feat?

[Hanuman]

Considering that strange movement is an (Ex) there's not much that specifically blocks ozodrin movement. What kind of invisible barrier is this?

[Magikeeper]

If it has to physically flow off of the Ozodrin any completely sealed barrier would stop corrupting land, since strange movement is a different ability. Another reason you might want to use corrupting land without flowing would be to make a mouth appear in the area without it flowing off of the Ozodrin (my desire to do this in-game has also come up).

As for specific barriers:

Spoiler

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The sort that fills the entire room except for the mirror the feature formed on and the enemy wizards (no square to port to, field left maybe a centimeter of space). Maybe a fine size port would have worked but there wasn't a reason to risk that since I was going to be in and out before the temporal acceleration ended anyway (Gestalt game). I did not have the time nor the resources to figure out what the field really was. It was hinted that the temporal acceleration was screwing me up, but I'd have recognized antimagic so I don't know what it was.

[Hanuman]

Mmm, I don't quite understand how it flows off you (except in a supposed cinematic sense), as far as Owrtho has explained the ozodrin accomplishes most acts by warping both the space and the body around her so honestly you could probably swing that either way. Owtho could invent a definitive ruling but I double it would be more correct than your specific interp, to you at least.

[Magikeeper]

It could go either way, and one interpretation (that you can have the feature just form out of the ground, either normally or by moving it to/from the stomach) favors my specific situation greatly. In such situations I am generally not comfortable making the choice and would prefer knowing Owrtho's intent.

A third question - The menacing manor PRC has an ability that lets you be in your own stomach. Yet, I don't see a reason why the Ozodrin could not already enter their own stomach, either by using corrupting land to form a door or by traveling tentacle.

[Lix Lorn]

A third question - The menacing manor PRC has an ability that lets you be in your own stomach. Yet, I don't see a reason why the Ozodrin could not already enter their own stomach, either by using corrupting land to form a door or by traveling tentacle.

I would assume this is a case of 'Of course you can't do it. Because it doesn't make sense.'

[Necroticplague]

I would assume this is a case of 'Of course you can't do it. Because it doesn't make sense.'

It doesn't magically make more sense once you take Menacing Manor, though I would still argue you couldn't do it before then. Your stomach doesn't really exist as a location in the normal sense, it's just some spot inside you. However, once you have the ability to open a door to it, it does exist as a concrete place:the place on the other side of the door.Of course, that leaves a fairly good question: if you enter you're stomach using Growing Gate, close it as a standard action, how the heck do you get out? Are you then stuck there? Does the next growing gate you open appear where the old one was? Because the way I'm seeing it now, cutting the stomach off while you're inside it essentially separates it into a divine morphic demiplane (with you being the one who can change it). Of course, if you had Ones Form In Miniature, then you could leave a part of you behind and have it open a mouth to get out, but short of either that or sinister image, you can't get out. After all, climbing out would only end up with the person crawling out your throat:which is still inside the stomach. Possibly just an addendum to Growing Gate: the Growing Gate does not dissapear and can not be removed while the menacing manor is within his own stomach.

Also, when using Corrupting Land or Flesh Calls to Flesh, do the separated parts of you/features still count as you for the purpose of strange movement: e.i., you could use 5 feet of strange movement to instantly be within 5 feet of any features placed or pieces separated (or possibly more stupidly: use a standard action to use up 0 feet of strange movement to instantly be at the square of any placed features or separated parts).

[Magikeeper]

I would assume this is a case of 'Of course you can't do it. Because it doesn't make sense.'

Well, what happens when the Ozodrin uses corrupting land to move a mouth-turned-entryway to a nearby wall and then tries to bullrush an opponent through it? Does the Ozodin hit an invisible, invincible barrier that only prevents themselves from entering the stomach? This is what I've been assuming for now, although it is a bit weird.

Anyway, a lot of these questions could go either way.

[Hanuman]

Well, what happens when the Ozodrin uses corrupting land to move a mouth-turned-entryway to a nearby wall and then tries to bullrush an opponent through it? Does the Ozodin hit an invisible, invincible barrier that only prevents themselves from entering the stomach? This is what I've been assuming for now, although it is a bit weird.

Anyway, a lot of these questions could go either way.

You enter your own stomach entirely to accomplish strange movement, it's counter-indicative that your stomach would create a barrier from entry.

Personally I'm reworking the ozodrin's stomach dimension to use gramatic semi-spaces for a large homebrew project, in that sense an ozodrin semi-plane would exist as a bulge in space where the ozodrin last was and would be tethered, it can then fold space to move as strange movement, changing it's semi-spacial tethering and re-appearing out of the bulge.

Or something.

[vasharanpaladin]

You enter your own stomach entirely to accomplish strange movement, it's counter-indicative that your stomach would create a barrier from entry.

Personally I'm reworking the ozodrin's stomach dimension to use gramatic semi-spaces for a large homebrew project, in that sense an ozodrin semi-plane would exist as a bulge in space where the ozodrin last was and would be tethered, it can then fold space to move as strange movement, changing it's semi-spacial tethering and re-appearing out of the bulge.

Or something.

Technobabble in heroic fantasy. Gotta love eldritch abomination PC's.

[Hanuman]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unl...press/aberrant

Found this recently, its similar to Ozodrin, I'll come back with more later (slowly working on Ozodrin v2)

[Hanuman]

Ozodrin² Draft Notes:

Table.a1 (Original Ozodrin FP Balance Ranges)
{table=head]Level|FP RANGE|AVR. FP
1st|

4-11

|

7.5

|
2nd|

7-14

|

10.5

|
4rd|

13-23

|

18

|
8th|

25-38

|

31.5

|
10th|

31-45

|

38

|
13th|

37-64

|

50.5

|
16th|

46-76

|

61

|
[/table]

Since the creation of the Aberrant (Pathfinder Aegis ACF) we actually have some hard data points in terms of balance reference for the ozodrin's features, especially since the Aberrant is pointbuy in a similar way.

The aberrant gets about 1/3 FP advancement but it's "customizations" are more potent per point, it can gain a 1d4 spike, a tentacle or a +2 perception (listen + spot)+lookaroundcover for 1 customization point, and this is at level 1, this means that not only are spikes and tentacles balanced at that level but 1 point is actually worth about 3-4FP per. The balancing factor is that you can only shift about 9-10FP around each time, and only once a day per 2 levels (which is actually fine).

So what this actually tells us is that the ozodrin is balanced to get features earlier, and that she can start with more FP. and still be quite balanced.

For instance, if you have 3FP + (+3Cha) and 3 aberrant feats you could have 9, if we assume that 3FP=1CP this is balanced to aegis, this is aproximate because FP and CP buys are not always balanced directly to each-other, or provide indirect bonuses that can't follow direct comparisons.

One of the biggest differences between the ozodrin and the aberrant in terms of balance is that the aberrant had hard-caps for it's pointbuy, which is actually a fairly clever way to avoid stacking one thing too much, it also has limitation on transformations which limits how confusing it is to the DM, but honestly I think it's not needed and should be an optional rule for heavy-loaded DMs.


The only issue here is that to balance these the ozodrin's Cha has to be 16-17, if it's 12 then the aegis will vastly out-power it's add-ons and if it's 20 the ozodrin will be more powerful, needing aberrant feats to be equal at level 1 is totally ok by me, but it's not sustainable.
The best approach I can think of for now is to let passive benefits balance it out, which is vague enough to not worry too much until a better idea is thought up (because I simply don't have a better base-system calculation idea yet).

The aberrant's PP, full BAB and decent saves make the ozodrin look fairly balanced conceptually, what needs to be fine-tuned are the features, when they are unlocked, and applying some hard-caps to them which scale with level. This will balance out the class profoundly and will cause the ozodrin to play less gimicky (like turning into a torso shooting colossal spikes at level 8).

I'll keep posting updates as I work into it, give some feedback thanks!


Edit-

Now to start working with quick concepts and just fire them out:

-Tentacle at Level 1 (2 to 3FP)
-Spike at Level 1 (2 to 3FP)
-Eyes (+1 Perception/FP)
-Eyestalk Augment allows you to look around corners while still having full cover, you do not gain the perception benefit from eye features or augments which do not have stalks as well. (arguably you could put them on tentacles for the same effect, we'll cover this later)
-+1hp/level, +1DR and lowers speed by 10' at Level 1 (4 to 6FP)
-Adds 1 strength damage to spike attack at level 1 (4 to 6FP)
-Shoot 2 spikes up 180' at level 1 (4 to 6FP)

Tear Flesh

When the aberrant has successfully grabbed a creature with its tentacles, he deals 1d6 damage per attached tentacle when target breaks free, The aberrant must have the tentacles customization before selecting this customization.

VERY interesting, level 1 (4 to 6fp)

-Add toxin to any used weapon, 1d2 dex damage 1/round for 6 rounds, at level 1 (6 to 9FP)

-Bonus against combat maneuvers such as bullrush and trip and a bonus to climb at level 1 (3 to 6FP)

-Gain +2 Strength at level 1 (4 to 6FP)

Now that these are starting to unfold in true balance it's looking like evolutionist and ozodrin an start mingling, but this is very helpful for developing the Organ feature for now.

[Elderand]

First I must say I love this class however there is one aspect of it (so far) on which I am not entirely clear.

Spoiler

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Bizarre Grappler (Ex): At fourth level, an ozodrin gains improved grapple as a bonus feat, even if it doesn't meet the prerequisites. If it already has improved grapple it gains a bonus aberrant feat.
In addition, it is treated as if it had the monstrous feat Snatch (Monster Manual p. 304), with the exception that it also counts for tentacle attacks (instead of just bite and claw attacks) and features need not be huge or larger to benefit from it. This counts as both snatch and improved grab for the case of qualifying for prerequisites. If the ozodrin already had improved grab, snatch, or both it gains a +2 bonus to grapple checks for each one. This bonus is gained retroactively if either are acquired later in the ozodrin’s career. Note that it does not actually gain the feat snatch.

I'm not entriely sure what you gain from this
It seems pretty clear you gain the benefit of improved grad (no AOO and +4 to grapple)

But what does the "feature need not be huge or larger to benefit from it" means ? If this mean on ozodrin can gain the benefit of snatch even if his features aren't 3 size (for mouth) and 4 size (for claws and I assume tentacles) larger than the enemy, does it imply the ozodrin measure his ability to grapple based on the size of his features and not on himself ?

That is to say, can an ozodrin grapple a colossal creature as long as he has a feature of size gargantuan or larger ?

If that's the case, how does size bonus to grapple apply ? Does a medium sized ozodrin with a huge tentacle grappling someone gain the +8 to grapple from the size of the tentacle or does he use his own, medium bonus of +0 ?

So which is correct ?

A medium ozodrin with a colossal tentacle grapple a medium creature with a grapple bonus of :
A) +4 from improved grapple and +16 from using a colossal tentacle for it for a total of +20
B) +4 from improved grapple and +0 from being medium sized for a total of +4

Other question : does an ozodrin with strange grappler gain the ability to hold a creature with just the part of it's body it used to initiate the grapple at -20 ?
If he does gain this benefit, does he ignore the need for the opponent to be one size smaller than himself the same way he ignore the size difference for snatch ?

[Necroticplague]

First I must say I love this class however there is one aspect of it (so far) on which I am not entirely clear.



I'm not entriely sure what you gain from this
It seems pretty clear you gain the benefit of improved grad (no AOO and +4 to grapple)

But what does the "feature need not be huge or larger to benefit from it" means ? If this mean on ozodrin can gain the benefit of snatch even if his features aren't 3 size (for mouth) and 4 size (for claws and I assume tentacles) larger than the enemy, does it imply the ozodrin measure his ability to grapple based on the size of his features and not on himself ?

No, it doesn't mean you get to ignore the parts about 3 and 4 sizes smaller, it means that the feat works at all for features smaller than Huge, ignoring the normal prerequisite for Snatch requiring you to be Huge. As for about grappling with different sizes: you determine what limbs you are going to use in the grapple. You use the largest one for the size modifier. You only add bonuses to grapple for whatever features you're involving in grappling that person, so splitting up makes you much less effective, even if a single person has almost no chance of escaping.

But if you're using a feature larger than you, then yes, you can grapple enemies normally too big for you.

Correct answer is A

As for whether they can just hold on with the features for a -20, that has nothing to do with the class itself, just how you interpret Snatch itself. I don't think it allows you to do that, because it only allows you to "choose to start a grapple...as though it had the Improved Grab special attack."So I don't think so, it just means they can roll grapple after slapping it with tentacles, biting it, or scratching it.

[qazzquimby]

I'd like to take a moment to shamelessly self advertise my Ozodrin Prc here.
It blends Ozodrin with Lix Lorn's Swarmlord, leading to a whole lot of flexibility with its features and mutations.

I'm unsure of its balanced and I'm not incredibly experienced with homebrew, so I would gladly accept criticism or advice if people have any.

[Hanuman]

Very interesting, I'll play around with that PrC's concepts in my draft.

[vinihigino]

Liked a lot! but I think it would be better if it was an extremely focused transmuter.

I have tried to do some work similar with your features a long time ago, but your are better. Maybe I will improve my project based (stealing) in what a I saw here

[vinihigino]

If you like this thread maybe you like the Aberrant mage

[Primal Fury]

Got a question for anyone listening: I'm working on a base class that will use the Form and Feature class abilities, and maybe Aberrant Affinity too, but the focus won't be all on shape-changing, requiring me to reduce the number of Features the class has access to, and the amount of Form points it gets.

How low do you think it needs to go? I'm thinking Charisma + Aberrant feats + Twice class level OR class level. What do you guys think?

[Hanuman]

Got a question for anyone listening: I'm working on a base class that will use the Form and Feature class abilities, and maybe Aberrant Affinity too, but the focus won't be all on shape-changing, requiring me to reduce the number of Features the class has access to, and the amount of Form points it gets.

How low do you think it needs to go? I'm thinking Charisma + Aberrant feats + Twice class level OR class level. What do you guys think?

Um, that's entirely dictated by what balance the class has. Owrtho's Ozodrin doesn't really have anything in the way of hard-caps so even having just eyes doesn't really mean you can't have 100FP.

I mean, even if you just want an extra pair of arms it's going to cost you a few levels of FP, so I wouldn't worry about lowering the cap unless the added strength and utility overpowers it because it is like, a full wizard caster for instance.

[Necroticplague]

Um, that's entirely dictated by what balance the class has. Owrtho's Ozodrin doesn't really have anything in the way of hard-caps so even having just eyes doesn't really mean you can't have 100FP.

I mean, even if you just want an extra pair of arms it's going to cost you a few levels of FP, so I wouldn't worry about lowering the cap unless the added strength and utility overpowers it because it is like, a full wizard caster for instance.

To back this up: The only real hard cap is the amount of natural attacks you can have from features.

[Draken]

To back this up: The only real hard cap is the amount of natural attacks you can have from features.

I believe that the size of natural weapons also caps at colossal.

[Hanuman]

I believe that the size of natural weapons also caps at colossal.

For now

[OhMyGodImOnFire]

So this might be a very foolish question, but I was confused by this part of the Devour feature:

"The ozodrin may cough up any magical or inorganic items possessed by one or more completely eaten opponents (opponents that were killed by bite attacks effected by this ability, even if they did not deal con damage) as a standard action as long as they do so within ten minutes of eating the opponent(s). Pieces of inorganic opponents such as iron golems cannot be coughed up this way..."

So first, is that just a missed contradiction, or am I not getting something? Can you or can you not cough up inorganic items? Or do you mean that I had to have eaten the entire inorganic creature before I can cough it up? And of course, if I eat part of the creature, then it breaks free, what happens to the bits of it that are already in the stomach? I'm going to assume that it's being dissolved by digestive juices and such, but it would be awesome if I could get a definitive answer

[Elderand]

So this might be a very foolish question, but I was confused by this part of the Devour feature:

"The ozodrin may cough up any magical or inorganic items possessed by one or more completely eaten opponents (opponents that were killed by bite attacks effected by this ability, even if they did not deal con damage) as a standard action as long as they do so within ten minutes of eating the opponent(s). Pieces of inorganic opponents such as iron golems cannot be coughed up this way..."

So first, is that just a missed contradiction, or am I not getting something? Can you or can you not cough up inorganic items? Or do you mean that I had to have eaten the entire inorganic creature before I can cough it up? And of course, if I eat part of the creature, then it breaks free, what happens to the bits of it that are already in the stomach? I'm going to assume that it's being dissolved by digestive juices and such, but it would be awesome if I could get a definitive answer

There isn't a contradiction. You can cough up inorganic items like a sword or backpack. If you eat an inorganic creature you can't cough it up. For the purpose of the rule a golem is no different than an orc, can't cough an orc skeleton, can't cough up an iron golem's head.

[Hanuman]

The disconnect probably is due to the fact it says opponent and not creature.

I'm honestly not sure why you can't cough up inorganic creature bits, this may be only to clarify..backwards..that you are capable of eating inorganic matter?

Otherwise it'd just stay in you...

[Draken]

So this might be a very foolish question, but I was confused by this part of the Devour feature:

"The ozodrin may cough up any magical or inorganic items possessed by one or more completely eaten opponents (opponents that were killed by bite attacks effected by this ability, even if they did not deal con damage) as a standard action as long as they do so within ten minutes of eating the opponent(s). Pieces of inorganic opponents such as iron golems cannot be coughed up this way..."

So first, is that just a missed contradiction, or am I not getting something? Can you or can you not cough up inorganic items? Or do you mean that I had to have eaten the entire inorganic creature before I can cough it up? And of course, if I eat part of the creature, then it breaks free, what happens to the bits of it that are already in the stomach? I'm going to assume that it's being dissolved by digestive juices and such, but it would be awesome if I could get a definitive answer

I believe the intent of that split is that:

1. You can spit out inorganic objects that were being carried by a creature you ate.

2. If you ate an inorganic creature, you can't break it to pieces and spit out said pieces.

So, lets say. You ate a warforged holding a sword. You can spit out the warforged's sword, but you couldn't spit out his arm. If he had a battlefist, you could spit that, but the arm under the battlefist would be unharmed.

[OhMyGodImOnFire]

Ah okay. So then, if I can't spit up an inorganic creature, what happens to it (another obvious question I know, but I'd rather have it straight than interpret it)? Does your stomach just digest it? I can't imagine that it's good for the Ozodrin to have piles of inorganic creatures just accumulating in his/her stomach.

[Hanuman]

Ah okay. So then, if I can't spit up an inorganic creature, what happens to it (another obvious question I know, but I'd rather have it straight than interpret it)? Does your stomach just digest it? I can't imagine that it's good for the Ozodrin to have piles of inorganic creatures just accumulating in his/her stomach.

The stomach digests creatures slain by devour, it's saying that you may not treat inorganic creatures as if their different bodyparts are items in themselves.

Digestion is not covered by a sidebar in Owrtho's ozodrin, I'll write one later but for now consider coughing up items as an exception to automatically digesting any slain creature.