Relationship Woes and Advice: The Thirteenth Woerier

[Serpentine]

A suit is a good contender, but anything that you can put on, know that you're dressed to the nines, and think "I look goooooooooood."

[Totally Guy]

Try going to a naked corn maze. If that doesn't help, play D&D with your group...naked!

Cripes, we're doing that again in 5 weeks time.

I've lost weight. My arms are looking bulkier, waist is looking trimmer (no abs though). Moobs... grr... more persistent than everything else... (that makes it worse!)

I ought to get some really good clothes... But because I was taught that I'd always struggle to have enough money I always shop around and go for cheaper things... I ought to put a few hundred pounds in my pocket and go shopping with someone who knows style...

[Serpentine]

Any good op shops near you? You can often find some really good stuff in them, for dirt cheap.
Just going out and trying things on can be good, too. Especially if you've lost weight and can be pleasantly surprised at the sizes that fit you, instead of put on weight

[YPU]

Not to talk you into big spending, but it is true that people often feel better looking in more expansive clothes.
So if I can go to town with a bit of money it might not be a bad idea. Else you might actually need to find clothes that actually look good besides having an expansive brand name on then.

[BSW]

Like a suit. Suits are sexy.

Agreed. With the caveat that the suit has to actually fit properly. Off the rack is perfectly fine but you always need to have the suit adjusted. Also, it can't be an overly cheap suit. The really cheap suits always look cheap.


The most important thing though is that you find something that you think you look good in. You also need to get comfortable wearing it. If you're not comfortable, then you'll always look a bit insecure while you're wearing it... and that isn't sexy.

[Eloi]

You know what's sexier than suits? Hoodies.

Who's with me?

...

...

...

Okay then suits it is then...

[skywalker]

In all seriousness, the best way to improve body image is to work out. Its hard, it may not be easy, or fun, but trust me when I say that nothing else in the world makes you feel the way you feel after a hard workout, especially immediately after the post workout shower.

Any physical activity will do, in my experience. Anything that reminds you that you're descended from a long line of warriors, hunters, and other highly active, sexy things.

They're sexy for the viewer though. I don't know a lot of guys who look at their uniform and say, "Time to put on the sexy." I hear, instead, a lot of complaints, mostly about collars and ties.

Not me. When I put on my suits, I turn and look in the mirror and go "F***... I look good."

BUT!:

Agreed. With the caveat that the suit has to actually fit properly. Off the rack is perfectly fine but you always need to have the suit adjusted. Also, it can't be an overly cheap suit. The really cheap suits always look cheap.

This. It doesn't need to be Savile Row tailored, but it does need to be made to fit your body properly.

Also, don't wear a suit to, like, McDonald's. Obviously. You look like you're trying too hard.

I've lost weight. My arms are looking bulkier, waist is looking trimmer (no abs though). Moobs... grr... more persistent than everything else... (that makes it worse!)

Abs are some of the hardest thing to get. We're designed to carry fat in front of them, so getting them to show is one of the most difficult things. You have to have really low body fat %, or be of a less-common body type. You might actually have abs that just aren't visible. I have tremendous abs but never any definition down there. Also, same with moobs. You can build up the muscle under the fat and that will actually make them more prominent. A lot of guys who work out a lot don't have the ripped chest look because of how bulk is carried. Needs moar cardio haha. (Ugh )

[Quincunx]

This might also be the time to try different types of sexy. . .flashy sexy (not you, I think, but who knows?), debonair sexy (with suit), suave sexy (with suit and witty repartee), studly sexy, steady sexy, cuddly sexy, excuse me while I go take a shower.

You know what's sexier than suits? Hoodies.

Who's with me?

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...

...

Okay then suits it is then...

You would be very happy here. Hope you like tracksuits to go with 'em. Hoodies are unhappy-making if you have any interest in longer hair though.

[snoopy13a]

Suits are great for slightly overweight people to look good. A quality suit will cover 20 or so extra pounds.

However, in the US, very few people wear suits on a daily basis. It is essentially down to most attorneys (lawyers are required to wear suits in the courtroom but some who aren't going to court that day won't wear a suit) and some people who work at more conservative places of business. Physicians don't usually wear suits. Some go with the lab coat and tie look while others will go without a tie. At the hospital, some will wear a lab coat for rounds while others will change into scrubs.

Personally, I think the business casual look is sloppy. A man wearing a golf shirt and carrying weight around the middle doesn't scream professionalism in my book.

[Serpentine]

Also, don't wear a suit to, like, McDonald's. Obviously. You look like you're trying too hard.

Pft. Inappropriate situational formal attire rawks. Bit more comfortable in a group, though.

Hoodies... meh.

[Zeb The Troll]

Personally, I think the business casual look is sloppy. A man wearing a golf shirt and carrying weight around the middle doesn't scream professionalism in my book.

Out of curiosity, what would you recommend we wear on a daily basis then?

[Nano]

Spoiler

Show

So guys, I'm something of a social recluse, as a result of nature and focusing almost all my attentions on one person in what turned out to be an unhealthy way. Only now I'm going stir crazy, I'm driving myself further into depression and apathy as a result of loneliness, and I'm becoming increasingly irritable to anyone who actually does want to talk to me (2-3 people max.)

I need to recover. Also, I need to meet people. I've never been comfortable in crowds, though, and the drive to actually introduce myself to and start conversations with new people is practically gone. Anyone have any advice? Failing that, does anyone want to hang out sometime?

[Zeb The Troll]

Spoiler

Show

So guys, I'm something of a social recluse, as a result of nature and focusing almost all my attentions on one person in what turned out to be an unhealthy way. Only now I'm going stir crazy, I'm driving myself further into depression and apathy as a result of loneliness, and I'm becoming increasingly irritable to anyone who actually does want to talk to me (2-3 people max.)

I need to recover. Also, I need to meet people. I've never been comfortable in crowds, though, and the drive to actually introduce myself to and start conversations with new people is practically gone. Anyone have any advice? Failing that, does anyone want to hang out sometime?

If you're anywhere near Baltimore/Northern Virginia, you'd be more than welcome to come hang out with us. (Apologies if I should know where you are by now. I keep being surprised when I hear someone lives near me and then, when I comment on it, I'm told that we've had this conversation previously.)

[Nano]

Unfortunately I have the great displeasure of living in Texas, otherwise I'd gladly take you up on your offer. (And no, the only times I can think of us talking is over WAR or Aion.)

[Serpentine]

Where are you up to, life-wise?

[Nano]

Seventeen, coming into my final year of high school, no driver's license yet but it'll probably happen sometime this summer if not Monday.

[Serpentine]

Hm. That's a little trickier.
Any friendly acquaintances you could try getting to know better? Otherwise, have a look at what community education type things are around that you might be interested in (a book club or a pottery class or a writing course, something like that. Maybe whatever your equivalent to Tafe is), or join a club, or some charity work - something that gets you out and doing something, and interacting with other people.

[Scorpina]

Okay, I've been toying with the idea of posting in this thread for a bit now, and I've decided to bite the bullet: there's this girl. She's a co-worker, and she's gorgeous and we get on really well. Not long after I started at work I (accidentally, as it happens) came out as bi to most of the staff - her included. Later that day, she came up to me in private, said how inspired she was at my bravery and confided that she too enjoys the company of women.

Since then, we've been out together a couple of times on things that may or may not have been dates, we've kissed and I've told her directly that I want to be her girlfriend. She isn't ready for that, she says. Especially because it'd be taking a step closer to being 'out', which she is also not ready for (especially at work). Now, of course I respect this and I understand it completely, and I've told her that I can wait until she feels more comfortable - something that seemed to make her happy. I've also been looking for other work, which might help. (I haven't been looking because of this, it's just a happy coincidence).

Right now, I'm just doing my best to be patient and hope things will work out. Am I right to do that? Is there any good way to cope with it?

[SuperPanda]

Re: Scorpina

I don't think there is a "right" way to do those things. When I've been in situations where I wind up waiting on a person the people around me tell me that I shouldn't stop looking for other avenues. The way some of the less diplomatic men I know say it is "put her on the back burner and remember to stir every now and then."

Basically, you need to remember that you are just as important as she is and that her fear of coming out in contest with the affections you two share.

My own situation is not that different in its own way. I came out to China to work in education and while here I met a wonderful woman (though I am a man I will soon get to how it is similar). We hit things off well but there was a catch. Shortly after things started going well she got a good placement in the military with a branch of a security arm... for reasons that should be obvious she can't date foreign nationals or she might be accused of espionage.

Now she is highly qualified for a number of other jobs and this job wasn't her first pick, but its still a difficulty which she would have to overcome if she were to pick me.

Your case is better in some ways. Your lovely lady is looking for the courage to be true to herself, something she will more likely than not find eventually. My lady is probably never going to decide to chance her future on love and abandon a prestigious posting and risk being frowned on by her family.

We are both hoping that the situation will change and that they'll come our way, but neither of us have any idea when it will happen.

So, my advice (taken with a grain of salt since I am a man, in a foreign country, with very different experiences) is that you need to look out for you in the end. Set a time in your head that you think its reasonable to wait for, set it now and hold yourself to it. Don't burn her bridge if she takes longer than that, just stop waiting for her. If she shows up while your still around, great! If not, you were more than good to her.

Relationships where you have to risk public/familial disapproval are scary. Sometimes they do like you, but just not enough. I hope your case isn't like that and that you help her find the strength to be true to herself.

On how to cope with the waiting... Hopefully the next people will have great advice. :)

[MountainKing]

Right now, I'm just doing my best to be patient and hope things will work out. Am I right to do that? Is there any good way to cope with it?

As I am likewise a dude, I will do my utmost to give gender-neutral advice on this; at the moment, as I don't know you terribly well, I only have two things to say about your situation, Scorpina, and I hope they help.

1.) Absolutely. The list of cliches concerning patience is endless, but in my experience they're true to the last, and given that from the sound of things, at the very least you two care about each other on some level, I would have to say that patience will pay out well in the end. In this, I wish you the best.

2.) Do NOT under any circumstances stop looking for other work, particularly if you want to pursue this further. Every single "at work" relationship I've ever witnessed, bar ONE, has ended in miserable, burning failure, complete with heightened tensions, thinly veiled irritation, and snippy remarks. Maybe that's just my experience; maybe it'll actually be just fine. My take on it? Don't risk it. Working with someone you're also in a relationship with can cause a serious amount of grief and awkwardness, and as such, it's a situation that I *always* advise against.

As the poster before me, take this with a grain of salt, though for me, it's because I don't have first hand knowledge of you or your attractee, nor your situation itself (both in the specific and general sense).

[skywalker]

Pft. Inappropriate situational formal attire rawks. Bit more comfortable in a group, though.

Yeah, if it's in a group, I suppose. But just by yourself? You look as though you're trying to be weird (or trying too hard, or are lost in a different era, depending on age), and at least for me, that's not what I'm interested in.

Right now, I'm just doing my best to be patient and hope things will work out. Am I right to do that? Is there any good way to cope with it?

I think Panda-guy is kinda right. If you don't mind waiting, then do so. But don't close your eyes to the rest of the world. Could be somebody even better around the next corner. I don't think you should necessarily have a set time or whatever, just don't close your mind either way (to other people or to her). Make sense?

[BSW]

Personally, I think the business casual look is sloppy. A man wearing a golf shirt and carrying weight around the middle doesn't scream professionalism in my book.

Common misconception right there. A man wearing a golf or polo shirt ISN'T in business casual attire. The best way to think of business casual for men is as literally half of a suit. It's what you have when you're wearing a suit and you take your jacket and tie off and undo the top button of your dress shirt. In other words, it's a dress shirt, nice slacks, and dress shoes.

The look you're thinking of is actually called semi-casual. It typically consists something like a polo and slacks or a dress shirt and nice jeans.

So guys, I'm something of a social recluse, as a result of nature and focusing almost all my attentions on one person in what turned out to be an unhealthy way. Only now I'm going stir crazy, I'm driving myself further into depression and apathy as a result of loneliness, and I'm becoming increasingly irritable to anyone who actually does want to talk to me (2-3 people max.)

I need to recover. Also, I need to meet people. I've never been comfortable in crowds, though, and the drive to actually introduce myself to and start conversations with new people is practically gone. Anyone have any advice? Failing that, does anyone want to hang out sometime?

I was a bit of a social recluse myself when I was your age. My advice is as follows:

1) Get off the computer. MMOs like WAR and Aion may be fun time-killers, but they're not very conducive to making friends in real life. You're not going to meet very many people on the internet who you can actually socialize with in real life on any sort of regular basis.

2) You visit this website, so you're clearly into gaming and the like. Find a local game/comic shop where people congregate and go hang out there. Make an effort to talk to people there. I think most, if not all, will be quite sympathetic to someone who has a hard time getting to know new people.

3) Join a club or some extra-curricular activity at school and actually participate. It's a good way of forcing yourself to meet and talk to people. Any clubs that require a lot of personal interaction are good for this.

4) Look into non-school affiliated activities to participate in. Taking martial arts lessons can be a good way to meet people. Whatever activity you choose, make the effort to speak to your fellows.

5) Make an effort to suggest activities with people who you seem to hit it off with. Suggest getting a group of people together to go see a movie.

Note, everything I suggested requires effort on your part. You said "the drive to introduce yourself and start conversations is practically gone." You've got to force yourself to do it anyway.

Friendship isn't just going to fall into your lap. You've gotta be proactive or you'll just continue to be alone.

[sktarq]

Right now, I'm just doing my best to be patient and hope things will work out. Am I right to do that? Is there any good way to cope with it?

Sound like the right course of action to me. But then again I've waited more than a few times. For relationship to end, for people to move, and most relevantly for someone to be ready to tell their parents that they didn't want to date within their Ethnicity/Religion. And been waited on.

So advice....Mostly the biggest rocks in the road that I've hit plus a couple coping ideas.

First thing I'd recommend is to remember that you are not dating. This may be easy or it may be a pain. If she can't accept a relationship with you now don't emotionally commit to her. It may mean you just flirt with whomever you find attractive. It helps with the pining and is generally better for your emotional health. And if something happens with someone else- well you're single-it's okay and see where life takes you. Other posters have mentioned this and I second them

On not letting things fizzle (hot). By the sounds of things you have already got your pseudo-dates and the occasional kiss going. This is good but dangerous. The lack of any defined relationship can set a few traps. Mostly it is just things to watch for. Depending on how sexually attracted/aggressive you are libido etc it is easy to let those occasional kisses to become outsize in importance....especially if you don't have other people. Even if you spend 99.99% of your time doing nothing "girlfriendy" it can come off wrong and spoil the whole thing. Thing to watch for here is emotional kicks. Even if he isn't ready for a relationship she is deeming you "special" and that can be a huge ego stroke. From time to time listen to your heartbeat or butterflies to tell you where you are getting your emotional connection. If it is becoming anchored by the physical (which is easier when you don't see each other regularly such as work) then bite the bullet and tone it down. That hurts but the other way is obsession.
Also watch for the Girlfriend in all but name. This is one that may be right for a while but should be entered with open eyes. Basically you are dating except for anything public or (often) sexual. It is sorta like very close friends with a lead on. The Real thing to watch for here is reciprocity. It's easy when you are ready for a relationship and they aren't for it to end up as a lopsided friendship, often without either side meaning to make it such. It kills the idea that they'd been better off making a change and eventually feels like you are being used which kills the romance.

On not letting things Fizzle (cold): Two main things here. Don't let your emotions shut off about it. That means knowing it will hurt when she is saying no with the position of her feet and that she will say that for a while at least. It's letting yourself be reminded why you have a crush on her and not shoving it down. Lots of people try to control "inappropriate" emotions. Don't let yourself control your emotions but only your actions.
As for the other main idea here, keep up the not-quite-dates. And make sure that every once in a while when you are meeting up just as friends that it is "date like". Don't forget to sneak in the flirt. Sounds easy but it is easy to get lazy and appear to be over the crush or just not be able for her to think of you "that way" or at least enough to overcome her "outing" worries

On Pedestals. When you have such a person who isn't quite ready it is very easy to put them on a pedestal. It doesn't help and feels a bit creepy to find yourself on one, which gives you less of a chance to ever actually HAVE the relationship. It also puts you in the position of having a very good reality not living up to your out-of-this-world expectations and the relationship suffers-often ending for it.

On coping. It's tough. Figure out how comfortable she is with you being date like and indulge every once in a while. Don't dream about a future together when you can help it-leads to all sorts of problems. Find a routine thing to do together (Movie Thursdays, Making pie on sundays, paintball etc) that gives you regular contact. It helps during emotional swings that you have a friend thing to do to break the ice if things got awkward last time, and to move past the pain without killing the emotion behind it. Also make sure you do something similar with a different friend/group to steady you...if you are going on a path you know will hurt for a bit having an emotional release (Id say both friends and something physical like a sport or gym) is critical.

Finally figure out what emotional conditions will get you to stop waiting. Having a known cut off point helps immensely. I'd recommend not making it a given amount of time but of a state of the relationship. Dates can always be pushed back. It's a known point and an emotional backstop that helps to tell you that you are not crazy and helps you stay that way.

EDIT: any ways of helping it along I will leave to you and deny all knowledge....and add it to the files.

[Coidzor]

How long should one wait for someone to make up their mind after the whole dating formally rather than doing things together as friends thing has been put forth before saying that it's doomed to failure even if she says yes?

If she does finally say yes and start formally dating my best friend, what can I do in order to stand her presence given the hell she's put me through by having to give advice to my best friend on a situation that seems like hell^2?

Also, if they do start dating, I'm pretty sure she hates me as despite my best foot forward she acts like I spontaneously suck the happiness and warmth out of her life just by existing within 50 feet of her, how do I confirm whether she actually has a problem with me or if she's just giving off inappropriate cues in keeping with her general lack of social exposure? I mean, after the initial five minute period she's able to suppress most outward signs of any unease, but whenever she sees me there's this moment of shock and abject horror that spreads across her face like a flood from the Mississippi River.

[Pyrian]

You don't like her, she doesn't like you, and she's currently dating stringing along your best friend? Feel free to advise your best friend (preferably not in her presence) that until he has a commitment from her he should act uncommitted himself. Other than that... I recommend that you keep your nose clean and your mouth firmly shut in all ways regarding her and their "relationship" (such as it is). Keep to the high road! You'll want to be on high ground when the tide-of-slime breaks...

[loopy]

I genuinely like a girl for once, but my mind shuts down whenever I'm around her.

Damn, relationships and dating are so much easier when I'm not emotionally involved!

[Serpentine]

Sucked in

[loopy]

Sucked in

Its okay, whenever I get too down, I just indulge in meaningless sex and everything seems better again.

On a more serious note: Not letting a girl lead you on is fine. Accidentally telling a girl your plans for not letting her lead you on... Not so much.

[J.Gellert]

On a more serious note: Not letting a girl lead you on is fine. Accidentally telling a girl your plans for not letting her lead you on... Not so much.

It's not that bad, if you try to be playful about it.

[The Succubus]

How long should one wait for someone to make up their mind after the whole dating formally rather than doing things together as friends thing has been put forth before saying that it's doomed to failure even if she says yes?

If she does finally say yes and start formally dating my best friend, what can I do in order to stand her presence given the hell she's put me through by having to give advice to my best friend on a situation that seems like hell^2?

Also, if they do start dating, I'm pretty sure she hates me as despite my best foot forward she acts like I spontaneously suck the happiness and warmth out of her life just by existing within 50 feet of her, how do I confirm whether she actually has a problem with me or if she's just giving off inappropriate cues in keeping with her general lack of social exposure? I mean, after the initial five minute period she's able to suppress most outward signs of any unease, but whenever she sees me there's this moment of shock and abject horror that spreads across her face like a flood from the Mississippi River.

Have you talked to your friend about it? Have you asked him how he truly feels about her?

Also, weird sig you have there.