MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

[Lix Lorn]

I think he's just pointing out that very few monsters have high physical and mental stats.

[Kish]

I think he's just pointing out that very few monsters have high physical and mental stats.

That would be dead wrong. Very few epic monsters don't have high physical and mental stats. Indeed, "This creature's listed Wisdom/Charisma seems oddly high for the creature in the darkness" has been a perennial problem in finding matches for him.

[Lix Lorn]

Oh, well, you certainly know more than me. I'll be quiet now.

...no sarcasm there, I mean it. xD

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That would be dead wrong. Very few epic monsters don't have high physical and mental stats. Indeed, "This creature's listed Wisdom/Charisma seems oddly high for the creature in the darkness" has been a perennial problem in finding matches for him.

It hasn't been that much of a problem. We know it has high strength, constitution, intelligence and charisma ("beautiful and yet horrible"). And we know his species, if not him, wouldn't normally be that lacking in wisdom ("scarier than you should be"). So it is not that hard to handwave the lack of wisdom as Rich messing with mental stats for purposes of the story.

Grey Wolf

[Lix Lorn]

Also, MiTD is an elite character, so it could be that his stats were rolled... even monsters with Wis 18 could roll triple one at character creation, right?
I think?

[Kish]

Sure. It's more of a concern when the creature in question defaults to Wisdom 37.

[Lix Lorn]

...I see. xD

[Irbis]

I know what MitD is!

It's...

Spoiler

Show

Loch Ness Monster!

Ok, bear with me for a second - iconic monster? Check. Not created by Rich? Check. Possibly quadruped, with great reach? If we accept plesiosaur theory, check. Stereotypical big game hunters would have heard about him, not native to rainforest. Check.

What would be the best D20 approximation? Big dinosaur, with high CR (we know these exist in both D&D and OotS), + monster of legend (duh!) template. It gives AC bonus and DR 10 (MitD invulnerability), frightful presence (his shout), see in the darkness (duh), divine magic (miracle?), bonus to mental stats (useful, as dinosaurs are rather low).

Can have family, leaves strange tracks, has swallow whole, is neutral - it does fit nicely, isn't it?

So, what do you think? :P

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Loch Ness Monster!

Ok, bear with me for a second - iconic monster? Check. Not created by Rich? Check. Possibly quadruped, with great reach? If we accept plesiosaur theory, check. Stereotypical big game hunters would have heard about him, not native to rainforest. Check.

What would be the best D20 approximation? Big dinosaur, with high CR (we know these exist in both D&D and OotS), + monster of legend (duh!) template. It gives AC bonus and DR 10 (MitD invulnerability), frightful presence (his shout), see in the darkness (duh), divine magic (miracle?), bonus to mental stats (useful, as dinosaurs are rather low).

Can have family, leaves strange tracks, has swallow whole, is neutral - it does fit nicely, isn't it?

If MitD had divine spells, why wouldn't he be able to help create undead? How would it fit in the box and under the umbrella?

By the way, its fame status and its alignment are neither pros nor cons.

Also, please read the note at the top of page one. Anyone reading this thread wants to hear theories about MitD. There is no reason to spoiler them.

Grey Wolf

[Savannah]

bonus to mental stats (useful, as dinosaurs are rather low).

I'm not familiar with the monster of legend template. How high would this take the MitD's mental stats? He seems to be quite intelligent, given how quickly he picked up Go.

The other stuff all looks reasonable to me, but it also seems to be missing some things:
* How well can the Loch Ness monster move and fight on land? It's an aquatic monster, but MitD is always on land.
* How is it going to fit into the box/under the umbrella?
* How are you explaining the earthquake stomp?
* How are you explaining hitting Miko and horse through a solid brick wall?
* How are you explaining the reactions to the MitD's appearance in the circus scene? Is the Loch Ness monster really horrific enough to provoke vomiting in disgust and still be considered beautiful?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm not familiar with the monster of legend template. How high would this take the MitD's mental stats? He seems to be quite intelligent, given how quickly he picked up Go.

For the record, I assume he is referring to this; it's the best I could find in a quick google search.

HD set to d8 (if lower than that, otherwise keep the original)
Natural AC +5
Slam, Bite, Claw and Gore attacks
Special Attacks:
Breath Weapon(Su)
Frightful Presence(Ex)
Raging Blood(Su)
Divine Spells
Special Qualities:
DR 10/+1
Enhanced Attributes
Fast Healing 5hp/round
Greater Damage(Ex)
Haste(Su)
Immunities
Reflective Hide
Regrow Limbs
See in Darkness
Spell Resistence 10+1/2xHD
Subtype
Base Save Increase +3
Abilities Increase: Str +10, Dex +6, Con +10, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4
Improved Initiative and Multiattack feats

CR *only* +2

To answer your question, INT barely improves, so it is not really an explanation of MitD's mental abilities. I'm also wondering how many divine spells it would get - assuming "as if it were a cleric of the same level", a pleiosaurus probably wouldn't get miracle (and yet would still be in trouble from raise dead).

Edit: another problem: the DR is irrelevant, both Miko and Belkar have magical weapons, and so it wouldn't apply.

Grey Wolf

[Irbis]

If MitD had divine spells, why wouldn't he be able to help create undead?

Well, Reddy and Xykon apparently don't know about that ability - and they shouldn't, as it is not a part of "core" monster, just like speech (speech is just easier to observe). I think all you link barres is the MitD having 5 actual clerical levels, if it can cast spells from another source it might be very well capable of doing so.

In fact, if we take Redcloak at face value, all forms of divine magic must be discarded, all forms of arcane magic requiring preparation must be discarded as well - whet then remains? Pacts with other powers (like a warlock - but I think it's not the case) or innate magic, just like the one I propose MitD has

In fact, MitD must have some sort of magic, or innate abilities responsible for anything from Escape to rain (a reference to Scotland?) so it's likely Redcloak doesn't know what he is talking about.

How would it fit in the box and under the umbrella?

Simply - Nessie would be long, but rather thin. It can coil inside of either. Even if large, the main body would be medium-sized, easily fitting under both.

By the way, its fame status and its alignment are neither pros nor cons.

Well, it's certainly not invented by Rich, iconic, and capable of being recognized after reveal

The only problem I see with Nessie is dinosaurs not speaking, but as BGH already said, it is built-in into whatever MitD is and therefore expected. Maybe it was awakened, was animal companion to a powerful druid ("father"?), or is crossbreed?

[Savannah]

Err...what about any of the points in my post that you haven't addressed yet?

Furthermore, if the template Grey Wolf posted is what you're thinking of, MitD's intelligence is either 3 or 4, depending on whether a plesiosaur's base Int is 1 or 2. Nowhere NEAR close to what it should be.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Well, Reddy and Xykon apparently don't know about that ability - and they shouldn't, as it is not a part of "core" monster, just like speech (speech is just easier to observe). I think all your link barres is the MitD having 5 actual clerical levels, if it can cast spells from another source it might be very well capable of doing so.

(English corrected to make my life easier)

Let's see if I'm understanding you: you are claiming that RC thinks he is just a plesiosaurus, not knowing he is Nessy, right? OK, somewhat dubious, but I can see that sort of working.

That said, in that comic MitD was wanting something to do, and if he had been able to cast animate dead, even if it wasn't from cleric levels, he would have. But he is sometimes oblivious to his own powers, so that's fine. Nevertheless, in this topic, you have not addressed the other problem: which cleric levels does that template give? The most powerful dinosaur I can find, the triceratops, it's CR9. I find it hard to believe that a Triceratops Of Legend would have access to miracle.

In fact, if we take Redcloak at face value, all forms of divine magic must be discarded, all forms of arcane magic requiring preparation must be discarded as well

Wait, what? Why would we discard all forms of arcane magic requiring preparation?

whet then remains? Pacts with other powers (like a warlock - but I think it's not the case) or innate magic, just like the one I propose MitD has

Just because you don't think it could be charisma-based magic (bard, sorcerer) doesn't make it so. Indeed, I find it easy to believe it would be charisma-based, given that MitD figuratively oozes CHA.

In fact, MitD must have some sort of magic, or innate abilities responsible for anything from Escape to rain (a reference to Scotland?) so it's likely Redcloak doesn't know what he is talking about.

Your reasoning does not follow. RC states that MitD cannot help him create undead. That doesn't discard the ability to cast any number of other spells.

Simply - Nessie would be long, but rather thin. It can coil inside of either. Even if large, the main body would be medium-sized, easily fitting under both.

Ummmm... your mental image of Nessy doesn't match mine. The "artist conceptions" of plesiosaurs tend to show it being rather portly around the middle. Not to mention, as Savannah pointed out, the difficulty of a aquatic creature would have moving around, even more so if it was tightly coiled under the umbrella.

Well, it's certainly not invented by Rich, iconic, and capable of being recognized after reveal

Certainly. But apart from the first, they don't help your case.

The only problem I see with Nessie is dinosaurs not speaking, but as BGH already said, it is built-in into whatever MitD is and therefore expected. Maybe it was awakened, was animal companion to a powerful druid ("father"?), or is crossbreed?

Or simply changed by author fiat, and lampshaded. Which it was.

Grey Wolf

[Irbis]

Err...what about any of the points in my post that you haven't addressed yet?

Um... because I haven't seen it at the time of posting?

Ok, some more research. Let's assume Nessie would have had stats similar to that of the highest CR dinosaur, plus Awaken spell (allowing it to speak common), plus monster of legend. New stats are:

Str 52, Dex 17, Con 39, Int 14-15, Wis 15, Cha 20. Total CR - 20/21.

The dino I took as template is Battletitan, Huge dinosaur from MMIII (CR17, HD36). Now that I look at it, monster of legend isn't entirely necessary, the base beast has high enough stats as it is.

* How well can the Loch Ness monster move and fight on land? It's an aquatic monster, but MitD is always on land.

It's aquatic only in the same sense crocodiles are. It still breathes air, and can walk (well, whatever it is called) fine. BT has 40-60 ft speed. Aquatic monsters of similar subtype (like Dragon Eel, looking similar to plesiosaurus, also MM III) have Speed 20 ft, swim 60 ft.

* How is it going to fit into the box/under the umbrella?

If it is smaller than his father, it's just Large. Both box and umbrella can fit that.

* How are you explaining the earthquake stomp?

52 Str? Spell?

* How are you explaining hitting Miko and horse through a solid brick wall?

As above.

* How are you explaining the reactions to the MitD's appearance in the circus scene? Is the Loch Ness monster really horrific enough to provoke vomiting in disgust and still be considered beautiful?

20 Charisma, plus frightful presence, plus both nessie/battletitan being rather ugly?

Hmmm, not that I look at it, Battletitan also (sort of) fits, but Nessie/Plesiosaurus wins being more iconic and being from the same animal subtype, allowing BT's stats to be substituted into Nessie.

And next:

Let's see if I'm understanding you: you are claiming that RC thinks he is just a plesiosaurus, not knowing he is Nessy, right? OK, somewhat dubious, but I can see that sort of working.

Not exactly, but I can see Nessie being unaware of its high cultural status in other cultures, same as Goblins seeing "just" a dinosaur, not legendary monster.

Edit: another problem: the DR is irrelevant, both Miko and Belkar have magical weapons, and so it wouldn't apply.

AC 36, fast healing, 600 HP?

Wait, what? Why would we discard all forms of arcane magic requiring preparation?

Um... because I haven't seen MitD with a spellbook even once. Everyone assumes he can't even read, so from where exactly he would have pulled a spellbook, prepared whatever spell Escape was, all while being dark in the box and having to "look deep for his own powers"?

Sorry, I don't see it, unless he managed to Wish (with no spells prepared) for a spellbook, prepared spells in 5 seconds, then cast Escape. Too convoluted, IMHO.

Tsukiko even admits she didn't expected MitD to be of help - seeing him with a spellbook would have been a big clue.

Indeed, I find it easy to believe it would be charisma-based, given that MitD figuratively oozes CHA.

He does? Where?

Btw, to me, Bard/Sorcerer = also innate magic.

RC states that MitD cannot help him create undead.

Exact wording to me was a bit different - Redcloak states MitD doesn't have even 5 levels of cleric. It is possible he could have created undead through means unknown to Redcloak, and haven't did so because he was discouraged.

Ummmm... your mental image of Nessy doesn't match mine. The "artist conceptions" of plesiosaurs tend to show it being rather portly around the middle. Not to mention, as Savannah pointed out, the difficulty of a aquatic creature would have moving around, even more so if it was tightly coiled under the umbrella.

Portly? Like this one? If so, I fail to see the problem - the body is under the widest point of the shadow cone of the umbrella, the neck is coiled higher. Since the body can move no matter now the neck is positioned, I fail to see the problem. I'll draw a pic how I think it looks tomorrow.

[Savannah]

Um... because I haven't seen it at the time of posting?

Fair enough, I apologize.

The dino I took as template is Battletitan, Huge dinosaur from MMIII (CR17, HD36). Now that I look at it, monster of legend isn't entirely necessary, the base beast has high enough stats as it is.

Hmm....ripping stats straight from a non-aquatic dinosaur and calling it the Loch Ness monster strikes me as "something Rich made up".....

Furthermore, the plesiosaur exists in D&D already. Stormwrack page 146.

It's aquatic only in the same sense crocodiles are. It still breathes air, and can walk (well, whatever it is called) fine. BT has 40-60 ft speed. Aquatic monsters of similar subtype (like Dragon Eel, looking similar to plesiosaurus, also MM III) have Speed 20 ft, swim 60 ft.

Plesiosaur has speed 10', swim 70'. While it is possible that different stats were used, I don't think of plesiosaurs as something that can walk easily on land.

If it is smaller than his father, it's just Large. Both box and umbrella can fit that.

Plesiosaur is actually gargantuan, 45' long (half of which is neck). Again, there could be different stats, but that's what's given for the actual creature in D&D already.

Remember that if it's smaller, it will have lower Str and Con, and the former will affect it's ability to create the earthquake and fling Miko, if it's not using a spell.

20 Charisma, plus frightful presence, plus both nessie/battletitan being rather ugly?

Sorry, but giant dinosaurs don't make me vomit. In fact, just being ugly probably isn't enough, since it would have to be so revolting that it can turn someone's stomach while still being beautiful.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Ok, some more research. Let's assume Nessie would have had stats similar to that of the highest CR dinosaur, plus Awaken spell (allowing it to speak common), plus monster of legend. New stats are:

Str 52, Dex 17, Con 39, Int 14-15, Wis 15, Cha 20. Total CR - 20/21.

OK, now we've clearly moved into template stack territory. Since Nerdanel can create a better fit out of enough templates in her sleep, I'll stop arguing here. No-one denies that enough templates can turn anything - down to and including house cats - into the most powerful monster ever. But we have no evidence that there is a template stack going on, and since the moment you invoke it turns finding base creature into an impossible quest, it's rather irrelevant to continue to discuss it.

If it is smaller than his father, it's just Large. Both box and umbrella can fit that.

Why would it be smaller than his father? Nessie, I mean? MitD says he is smaller than his dad, but please check first post for possibilities - and Nessie can't simply be "smaller than his father" without further explanation. If it were smaller - for example, because of being a child - then you need to address the problem of child-like strength.

AC 36, fast healing, 600 HP?

In your first post you mentioned DR 10 as a plus. It is not, since it is DR 10/+1. I was merely pointing out that it is not actually a point in your proposal's favour.

Um... because I haven't seen MitD with a spellbook even once. Everyone assumes he can't even read, so from where exactly he would have pulled a spellbook, prepared whatever spell Escape was, all while being dark in the box and having to "look deep for his own powers"?

While this is an argument worth exploring, it does not follow from the comic I was linking. If you are going to explore side issues, please mark it clearly - it is very confusing how you conflate different ideas in the same answers.

Sorry, I don't see it, unless he managed to Wish (with no spells prepared) for a spellbook, prepared spells in 5 seconds, then cast Escape. Too convoluted, IMHO.

On the other hand, many creatures have access to arcane magic with no need for spellbooks, and thus arcane magic itself need not be discarded. Also: see above re: conflation.

He does? Where?

There is the "beautiful" comment, of course. But you must be the first person that doesn't think MitD is highly charismatic (certainly the first person to make an issue of it, to the best of my recollection). I am at a loss to explain this, since it is obvious to me. He is likable, funny, cute, endearing and pretty much a ridiculously powerful puppy. I.e. charismatic.

Exact wording to me was a bit different - Redcloak states MitD doesn't have even 5 levels of cleric. It is possible he could have created undead through means unknown to Redcloak, and haven't did didn't do so because he was discouraged.

There is no wording to discuss here. RC doesn't think MitD can create undead - and believes the only way he could would be to gain cleric levels. But this is irrelevant to my point. Just because RC thinks MitD cannot create undead does it mean RC believes MitD cannot cast any number of other spells, which is what you said here:

In fact, MitD must have some sort of magic, or innate abilities responsible for anything from Escape to rain (a reference to Scotland?) so it's likely Redcloak doesn't know what he is talking about.

RC can perfectly know what MitD is capable of, including thousands of spells it could cast - including, yes, the escape spell, whichever it was - and still know that casting create undead is beyond MitD's abilities.

Portly? Like this one? If so, I fail to see the problem - the body is under the widest point of the shadow cone of the umbrella, the neck is coiled higher. Since the body can move no matter now the neck is positioned, I fail to see the problem. I'll draw a pic how I think it looks tomorrow.

Then let me put it like this: if the body is wider than the base of the shadow, it cannot fit. A plesiosaur with enough strength to be MitD would be too big to be MitD. And Nessie is supposed to be very big. While obviously details on non-existant creatures are hard to come by, this page (picked at random from google results), gives me the following:

• Weight: estimated 2,500 pounds.
• Length: 15 to 40 feet.

which puts it between huge and gargantuan, both too big for MitD.

Grey Wolf

[Bongos]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a sec. Why am I reading in posts that the MitD has fairly high Int and mental abilities? Where did that come from? Did I miss something somewhere?

The MitD always appeared relatively stupid to me, and where has he exhibited any mental abilities?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Savannah]

He picks up Go very fast when O-Chul is teaching him, indicating a high (or at least passable) Int. My main point with the Int needing to be high is the fact that as a monster of legend dinosaur, 4 Int is not high enough, since Thog (who presumably has an Int somewhere around there) has trouble speaking but MitD does not.

My personal feeling is that MitD has medium to high Int, abysmal Wis, and high Cha. But at the very least, he can't have 4 Int due to his speech.

[Gift Jeraff]

One interpretation of this scene is that he has really high Intelligence. (Though I myself lean towards it indicating something more specific like divination magic, clairsentience psionic powers, Spellcraft, or something.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a sec. Why am I reading in posts that the MitD has fairly high Int and mental abilities? Where did that come from? Did I miss something somewhere?

The MitD always appeared relatively stupid to me, and where has he exhibited any mental abilities?

Inquiring minds want to know.

What the others said, and also: remember that MitD allows others to think for him. I think we all agree that MitD has a terrible WIS score (wether it is natural for his species or not is another matter), but his INT should be high enough that explains his flashes of brilliance.

Grey Wolf

[Bongos]

He picks up Go very fast when O-Chul is teaching him, indicating a high (or at least passable) Int.

But the MitD's Go game is horrible (also O'Chul is kind of cheating.)

Yes there are a few occasions where the MitD seems to display more intelligence than things typically described as really dumb.....but if you compare those to the times when he displays less intelligence than things typically described as really dumb....

[Grey_Wolf_c]

But the MitD's Go game is horrible (also O'Chul is kind of cheating.)

Yes there are a few occasions where the MitD seems to display more intelligence than things typically described as really dumb.....but if you compare those to the times when he displays less intelligence than things typically described as really dumb....

Thus: high int, low wis. Intelligence, in D&D, is the ability to solve problems. Wisdom is the ability to know when to act. MitD's innocent/childlike behaviour fits a low wisdom creature. His ability to pick up strategy games quickly, and to understand complex issues such as the ritual indicates high intelligence. V, by the way, is similar, except less extreme.

Now, there are alternative interpretations (i.e. hypercognition, a psionic power) that could explain the high-int moments, but nothing that really indicates low int (e.g. his speech pattern indicates INT higher than the average orc).

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

[Bongos]

Trust me guys, the MitD isn't picking up on Go all that quickly, more like picking up a single strategy game poorly, and yes of course there is the "ritual" which kind of surprised us all, but is that understanding or just recognition?

There is also the MitD's inability to remember simple instructions (devour Oots), comprehend a simple tactic (3 Xykons), the whole "gate" running gag.

I'm just saying his stupidity has been a recurring joke in the comic hasn't it? And those 2 instances somehow overpower all that?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Trust me guys, the MitD isn't picking up on Go all that quickly, more like picking up a single strategy game poorly, and yes of course there is the "ritual" which kind of surprised us all, but is that understanding or just recognition?

There is also the MitD's inability to remember simple instructions (devour Oots), comprehend a simple tactic (3 Xykons), the whole "gate" running gag.

I'm just saying his stupidity has been a recurring joke in the comic hasn't it? And those 2 instances somehow overpower all that?

Inability to remember instructions: absent-minded. Indicates low WIS. To give an example: Newton, the greatest scientist of all time, was unable to remember meal times, even when he had friends over. He'd leave the table "for a minute", and would be found hours later reading in his library, having completely forgotten his guests, his lunch, and the conversation he had been having. He also had to demonstrate that orbits of planets are elliptical twice (probably one of his greatest contributions), because he managed to loose the first. He once tried to determine scientifically how long it took for an egg to hard boil... except he put his very expensive chronometer in the water, and waited, egg in hand, for the results to come in. The list goes on. No-one doubts his intelligence was heads and shoulders above the rest of humanity. His wisdom, on the other hand, could've used some polish.

Comprehend simple tactics: again, the joke is his inability to remember a long explanation from start to end. This is the pattern of the running joke, in fact.

The gate: more difficult. Its inability to understand what the gate is indicates neither lack of intelligence nor lack of wisdom. I abscribe it to rule of funny, but those that tend to think that MitD is seeing something else - maybe the underlining magic, or even the rift - may have a point.

The Go game: I trust the word of the Paladin when he says MitD is picking up the game quickly, and if the game looks badly played, I'll assign it to a combination of Rich's lack of Go skills, and his need to show O'Chul's point about the two holes. Also, "learning it quickly" isn't the same as "he's as good as someone that's been playing all his life".

So, in conclusion: those instances aren't overpowered by the two examples. Those instances simply don't indicate low INT at all, just low wisdom, or weird going-ons.

[Strife Warzeal]

MiTD could just be not able to spot the gate because of a low wisdom score (failed his spot check ).
Probably impossible because the gate would be like a 5 DC or maybe a 0 since it is rather large... Is it possible to get a negative on a roll?

So more likely rule of funny.

[Imperii]

I would like to propose a possible (minor) re-interpretation of the SBGH scene.

Originally Posted by SBGH
Monocle: "My gods, is it talking? In Common, no less!"
Jenkins: "Unbelievable!"
Monocle: "Well, that will surely fetch a fine price."
Jenkins: "Indeed!"
Monocle: "I tell you, Jenkins, I never expected to see one of these in this part of the world."
Jenkins: "Quite!"
Monocle: "One-in-a-lifetime catch, Jenkins[...]"

The alternative interpretation I would like us to consider - is whether or not the SBGH were surprised that MITD was able to talk, or if it is possible that their surprise is indicative of shock that it would choose to talk (and that chosen language should be that of Commmon) as opposed to say... a more violent reaction to their presence, or what have you. While I do agree that it is quite probable that the correct interpretation is that which we have been using, I also think there is a small possibility that this explanation would fit what we see in the SBGH scene, as well.

Some other points I would like to include, in no particular order:

• I have not read SOD, I instead rely upon reading through the posts of this thread and the information available for purview in the first post
• This is my first time posting in this thread (I believe? I may have posted once in MITD:II, but if so, I do not recall doing so), and I hope that I have done so in an informative and constructive manner to the topic at hand.
• To the best of my knowledge, having read through the thread up to about 10 replies to the end due to the holidays leaving me out of touch, this has not been suggested before.
• Even if what I posit is correct, I believe it does very little to change our search for the MITD, other than to remove the handwaving of a creature's ability to speak and/or speak common, which I believe is a non-issue for most if not all of us, when nominating candidates.
• I would like to express my thanks to those who are active and contribute to the success of this thread which I regularly enjoy (Grey Wolf, Bongos, etc.).

I look forward to hearing thoughts, as to the validity or invalidity thereof of what I have suggested.

Imperii

Ps. Happy holiday weekend!

[Savannah]

Do you have any suggestions for monsters who wouldn't choose to speak/choose to speak common? Most of the monster entries just say "[monster] speaks [language(s)]" with no mention of choosing not to speak or preferring one language over another.

[Imperii]

Do you have any suggestions for monsters who wouldn't choose to speak/choose to speak common? Most of the monster entries just say "[monster] speaks [language(s)]" with no mention of choosing not to speak or preferring one language over another.

I am afraid that I do not have any new candidacies for us to consider, although if we take a look at the Slaad entry in the Forerunner section of the first post, I think that if I am correct, we could reconsider whether their language abilities are, in fact, a con. For our benefit, I will quote the relevant section.

Spoiler

Show

White/Black slaads only.
Pros:

• Very strong, epic defences
• Can teleport others
• Disgusting appearance (humanoid toad)
• Not inmune to mind-affecting spells
• White one fits in the box/umbrella. Black only in the box.

Cons:[list][*]Tricky reproduction cycle means black/white slaads are unlikely to have a "father" (unless it is of the foundling variety).[*]MitD would have to be over 300 years old, having evolved through green, grey and death slaad varieties. This does not mesh well with his mental characteristics. (unless Rich has bent the reproduction flavor text)[*]It may be Product Identity (listed as such in d20.org, but not in the WotC legal documentation).

• Even if it is, it may not be impossible for Rich to use it for free, unlike trademarked creatures.

[*]Can talk common, and thus wouldn't surprise the hunters that he can talk. Unless, that is, slaads usually talk like this (but this is probably Rule of Funny)

[Kurald Galain]

I'm sure someone has brought this up before, but...

The Giant has said that the MITD is something that existed earlier, not that he made up himself. However, he has not said that it's a D&D monster. And yet pretty much everything in this thread revolves around D&D monsters.

Why wouldn't it be a monster from a non-D&D fantasy book, or from classic mythology? For example, Lewis Carroll has weird creatures in spades.