MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

[Winged789]

I am sure someone already covered this, and it is weak at best...but i'll share the thought anyway.

it occurred to me to look at the monster's hand, you know the one that is holding the umbrella, to see if it would give any kind of indication on what he or she may be. As i am sure most of you are already aware however there is no such hand, however the MiTD is holding on to that umbrella is invisible to us.

so either it is levitating it somehow (probably well within the abilities of anything that can teleport people) or the top of is is resting on him in such a way that it is covering whatever it touches in darkness.

thoughts?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I am sure someone already covered this, and it is weak at best...but i'll share the thought anyway.

it occurred to me to look at the monster's hand, you know the one that is holding the umbrella, to see if it would give any kind of indication on what he or she may be. As i am sure most of you are already aware however there is no such hand, however the MiTD is holding on to that umbrella is invisible to us.

so either it is levitating it somehow (probably well within the abilities of anything that can teleport people) or the top of is is resting on him in such a way that it is covering whatever it touches in darkness.

thoughts?

It has been brought up before. It falls under drawing clues - and the imprecision thereof due to Rich's style, and the fact he has an agenda about MitD (i.e. he's being kept hidden on purpose).

In any case, purposeful, active levitation is vanishingly unlikely, since back in SoD, there is a scene where MitD finds himself in the cage, with a bucket of porridge on the outside of the cage. If he were capable of levitation, he would have levitated the bucket to him. But what he does is rock the box until the bucket is hooked by a rivet.

Now, if you don't want to accept that Rich simply won't draw anything of MitD, the simplest explanation is indeed that the umbrella is resting on MitD - on his head, if large, or horns, or hump, or whatever.

Grey Wolf

[Lix Lorn]

Or the end of the umbrella could just be deeper in the darkness...

[Qwertystop]

Or that, since most limbs are just black lines, you can't see it anyway.

[Nimrod's Son]

Or that, since most limbs are just black lines, you can't see it anyway.

Yep. The umbrella is no more levitating than Belkar's dagger is.

[1chapelcredit]

Figured it out.

Spoiler

Show

[renovator]

Hi,
Could it be pun on XOR/NOR (becuase the MitD has many things that he doesnt do) and be an Elder XORN/ZORN ( which was based on the sumerian god ASAG) or a XOR-YOST ?

I assume the escape is because the Umbrella is a staff of wishing or a Dragon orb or maybe the Earth glide of the XORN.
I also assume that the MitD has amnesia rather than being young.

XORN (from wiki)
"A xorn is described as having a barrel-shaped body with trilateral radial symmetry; three arms, legs and eyes spaced around its torso. The mouth is located at the top of the body. This description is remarkably similar to the description of Asag, a demon of sumerian mythology, on which the xorn may have been based."

XOR-YOST (from wiki)
"Energons appear as incorporeal floating globes with a pair of spots that resemble eyes. A half-dozen to a dozen tentacles protrude from the sphere. Energons look like octopuses when they "swim" through the air.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...dertype&alpha=
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.

The sumerian God ASAG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asag
was associated with dragons and is described as being so hideous that his presence makes fish boil alive in the rivers.

ASAG also appeared in a Dragon magazine
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135360
http://www.giantitp.com/forums//arch...?t-175570.html
Asag (Issue #334)
CR: 11
HD: 17
How to get it: None by RAW, likely SM IX
Role: Brute
Fluff: The asag are rumored to have once been the lords of the Plane of Earth, but were banished for some offense by mortal sorcerers. As such, they despise most races, but focus their hatred especially on dwarves and gnomes.
Advantages: Two decent slam attacks that can inflict a dehydrating disease. They stun on a natural 20. Blindsense.
Disadvantages: Clumsy, with low AC, DEX, and Initiative. No DR or SR.
Notable SLAs: Detect Magic and Endure Elements at will, plus Stone Shape and Stone Skin 3/day, plus Major Creation 1/day.
Final Evaluation: Not competitive at SM IX - not enough damage and not enough casting. You have better earth-themed creatures.

just a guess
rgds paul

[LuPuWei]

Hi,
Could it be pun on XOR/NOR

I coulda sworn you were talking about Logic gates... (oh right you were, never mind )

... Gates? What gates?


I doubt they'd give the MitD a magic staff though. And Rich does say the MitD digs down deep to discover powers he didn't know he had or some such...

[Lord Bingo]

Figured it out.

Spoiler

Show

OK, gotta ask: Why do you think you figured it out? I don't even know what that is...

[Grey_Wolf_c]

OK, gotta ask: Why do you think you figured it out? I don't even know what that is...

Those are the bubble bobble dragons, from an old arcade game. I took it as an unfunny joke suggestion. But funny or not, since it is not minimally defended, it'll be ignored come next update.

Grey Wolf

[lothos]

Those are the bubble bobble dragons, from an old arcade game. I took it as an unfunny joke suggestion. But funny or not, since it is not minimally defended, it'll be ignored come next update.

Grey Wolf

I used to play bubble bobble a lot on the Commodore Amiga. From what I remember, the dragons themselfs have virtually no powers of thier own in a "default" state other than the ability to blow bubbles and jump on those bubbles. (EDIT - And to temporarily entrap enemies in those bubbles).

Most of the abilities you get in the game come from picking up magic items. For example, pick up the shoe and your movement rate doubles. Pick up one of several colors of sweet and your bubbles get faster moving / more rapid / go further. Pick up a teapot and get all 3 sweet powers.

So in terms of abilities, bubbun and bobbun just don't have anything I'd consider similar to MitD. Even with magic items from the game, I don't think any of them mimic abilities like teleporting others, making it rain...

So, I don't take this seriously either.

My newest suggestion: Pseudonatural Phrenic Tarrasque!

(snip)

Wow.
That's a thesis for a PhD in Templateology. An impressive amount of detail in the work. I'm still not sure templates is the answer, but it's great to investigate it so thoroughly.

[Lord Bingo]

I think I might have brought this up before, but would it be a possibility that the MitD rather than being a specific creature is a stereotype wholly outside the normal rules of D&D? In that sense the MitD would not be something that Rich made up as such since the stereotype with all its typical characteristics exists beforehand, even if it is Rich that gives it shape and purpose in the context of the comic. Admittedly that would be a fine line indeed between something Rich made up and something someone else made up, but is it too fine? I mean, it is hardly original in the common sense of the word.

Specifically I am thinking of wikipedias description of reality warpers which IMO fits the MitD pretty well.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I think I might have brought this up before, but would it be a possibility that the MitD rather than being a specific creature is a stereotype wholly outside the normal rules of D&D? In that sense the MitD would not be something that Rich made up as such since the stereotype with all its typical characteristics exists beforehand, even if it is Rich that gives it shape and purpose in the context of the comic. Admittedly that would be a fine line indeed between something Rich made up and something someone else made up, but is it too fine? I mean, it is hardly original in the common sense of the word.

Specifically I am thinking of wikipedias description of reality warpers which IMO fits the MitD pretty well.

You cannot really draw a stereotype. Rich would have to choose one specific reality warper, one particularly ugly too, to judge the circus scene.

GW

[Garwain]

My good old friend the Pit Fiend is back!

I cannot imagine someone looking at it and saying "I've never seen anything like it". I'm sorry, but we've all seen things like demons.
Grey Wolf

Eh, what? I don't know where you hang out, but I never saw anything like demons. In the medieval setting, I bet those poor folks never did too. So I can TOTALLY see a (1!) random peasant say: "I've never seen anything like it".

No idea why it would make them vommit though. Vommit out of fear?

The major hurdle for this creature remains his alignment and family tree. So yes, I'm hoping big time to see clues in the next strips that confirm this theory.

[Kish]

It's not a medieval setting.

[Silver Swift]

It's not a medieval setting.

Ok, so how likely would it be for a normal person in a generic d&d setting to have seen a demon?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Eh, what? I don't know where you hang out, but I never saw anything like demons. In the medieval setting, I bet those poor folks never did too. So I can TOTALLY see a (1!) random peasant say: "I've never seen anything like it".

You would loose that bet. Medieval people saw demons all the time. Our modern mental pictures of demons comes from medieval church capitals, carvings and gargoyles.

Not that we're talking about a real-life medieval period, nor a random peasant, but a D&D setting where demons actually exist and hang around humans fairly frequently, and a guy in wizard robes.

Grey Wolf

[Swordpriest]

Yes, if the wizard hadn't seen a demon once or twice, I'd be surprised.

[Lord Bingo]

Yes, if the wizard hadn't seen a demon once or twice, I'd be surprised.

I hope you mean: ... hadn't seen a depiction of a demon ...

I agree that it is a fair assumption that most individuals are familiar with the concept of a demon/fiend/whatever, especially in a world where they are known to exist, but that does not equate having seen them in the flesh, standing 20 feet away, wrapped in a cloak of its wings, wreathed in flame and reeking of sulfur. It might just be "standing there" but to claim that this being is familiar enough to them that it is not particularly noteworthy is the real world equivalent of claiming that you would be unaffected if you found a dead body that had been decaying at room temperature for a month because you know how it looks and smells from movies!
Even if we assume that the robed individual in the circus scene is high level enough that he has dabbled in summoning demons I still think it highly unlikely that he has ever had dealings with a fiend of that magnitude. You could chain that demon up and reassure me a million times that it was not going to harm me and I still imagine I would be scared ****less (and possibly crying). I am not sure I would vomit but I understand feeling sick is a common reaction to fear.

[immblueversion]

I hope you mean: ... hadn't seen a depiction of a demon ...

How about a "daemon"? Like the one in your avatar...

(Kind of a little gag not meant to be taken completely seriously...)

[EmperorSarda]

Has PunPun been suggested as a possibility? A PunPun who didn't know the full extent of his powers?

[Grynberg]

Has PunPun been suggested as a possibility? A PunPun who didn't know the full extent of his powers?

If he was unaware of his powers he'd just be another average goblin without any abilities.
PunPun is a self-made man and has to do heavy spellcasting to be powerful (shapechanging/stat boosting etc).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Has PunPun been suggested as a possibility? A PunPun who didn't know the full extent of his powers?

Let me guess, you decided that the first post wasn't worth checking out. Pun-Pun is covered under Section 3b.

I hope you mean: ... hadn't seen a depiction of a demon ...

Yes, since the exact words he used are "I've never seen anything like it!", so it still supports that it looks nothing like a demon.

I agree that it is a fair assumption that most individuals are familiar with the concept of a demon/fiend/whatever, especially in a world where they are known to exist, but that does not equate having seen them in the flesh, standing 20 feet away, wrapped in a cloak of its wings, wreathed in flame and reeking of sulfur. It might just be "standing there" but to claim that this being is familiar enough to them that it is not particularly noteworthy is the real world equivalent of claiming that you would be unaffected if you found a dead body that had been decaying at room temperature for a month because you know how it looks and smells from movies!
Even if we assume that the robed individual in the circus scene is high level enough that he has dabbled in summoning demons I still think it highly unlikely that he has ever had dealings with a fiend of that magnitude. You could chain that demon up and reassure me a million times that it was not going to harm me and I still imagine I would be scared ****less (and possibly crying).

And yet the guy displays nothing of all that. He is not scared, he is not vomiting, he is basically looking quizzically and maybe slightly confused at the creature.

I am not sure I would vomit but I understand feeling sick is a common reaction to fear.

You may understand it so, but I have never heard that myself. Fouling yourself (both solid and liquid), being paralised ("like a deer in the headlights"), running, screaming, are all common symptoms of fear. Vomiting is NOT a common symptom of fear, and neither is sitting there wondering what you are looking at.

The circus scene does not match by any stretch of the mind a circumstance in which the public is, to quote you, "scared ****less". Not from what we see in-comic, not from logic: the circus act wouldn't last very long if the attendants were sent running in all directions every night and, especially, if they could figure out that the red thing with wings and a sulfur smell was a demon.

Grey Wolf

[Lord Bingo]

I will not claim that the Pit Fiend is the perfect candidate but compared to what else we have on the shortlist I think it is pretty good.

It is certainly better than Kermit the Slaad, which in spite of being a likely copyright infringement has still made the list even though it could never be described as beautiful and thus fulfill the requirements of the circus scene.

The Linnorm is colossal and it has two heads! Unless you jump through all kinds of hoops that pretty much disqualifies the suggestion. Even then it needs sorcerer levels to make it a viable bid.

The Dream Larva is basically a worm. It is too big, low level people die on sight and Dreamscape needs to be interpreted liberally to say the least to allow for the escape.

The Protean is one of the better bids. The biggest problem with it as far as I see is that is required to change its shape into something with the correct powers at the right time to explain the escape.

The Neothelid has no legs, no arms and no eyes. It's night only redeeming quality is access to (psionic) teleport.

The Pit Fiend has access to wish, great offensive and defensive capabilities, a suitable size and anatomy, and a great skill set. Yes, it is not perfect, but nothing we currently have on the list is.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It is certainly better than Kermit the Slaad, which in spite of being a likely copyright infringement has still made the list even though it could never be described as beautiful and thus fulfill the requirements of the circus scene.

If you are going to swing around legal arguments, you should read about them. EVERYTHING that has been created since Mickey Mouse is under copyright and thus their use a technical violation. Including Pit Fiends. The question about Slaads is wether they are trademark violations. Which, as far as I can tell, they are not.

The Pit Fiend has access to wish, great offensive and defensive capabilities, a suitable size and anatomy, and a great skill set. Yes, it is not perfect, but nothing we currently have on the list is.

And it doesn't fit, by any stretch of the mind, what is arguably the most key scene of MitD's identity, the one time independent observers got to see it and share their reactions with us. It is not only not perfect, it is not even close to the solution.

I stand by my decision. Without matching the three key scenes, it will not be considered a forerunner.

Grey Wolf

[Sanguine]

It is certainly better than Kermit the Slaad, which in spite of being a likely copyright infringement has still made the list even though it could never be described as beautiful and thus fulfill the requirements of the circus scene.

I feel the need to point out beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I for one have always considered the depictions of Black and White Slaads to have a certain elegance to them. Also they have pretty high Charisma scores.

[Lord Bingo]

I stand by my decision. Without matching the three key scenes, it will not be considered a forerunner.

Grey Wolf

Point taken.

[Grynberg]

And it doesn't fit, by any stretch of the mind, what is arguably the most key scene of MitD's identity, the one time independent observers got to see it and share their reactions with us. It is not only not perfect, it is not even close to the solution.

I think you should consider rethinking the circus scene or dropping it entirely. It's very subjective what people find beautiful or nauseous.
King-kong brought up roughly the same reactions in the movie if you exclude the vomiting - people were afraid, some were excited, some thought it was beautiful and some found it ugly as hell. Change the big ape with a pit fiend and you might get some vomiting even.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I think you should consider rethinking the circus scene or dropping it entirely. It's very subjective what people find beautiful or nauseous.
King-kong brought up roughly the same reactions in the movie if you exclude the vomiting - people were afraid, some were excited, some thought it was beautiful and some found it ugly as hell. Change the big ape with a pit fiend and you might get some vomiting even.

Why? Why would we get vomiting? For Thor's sake, I said this four posts ago. To the best of my knowledge, vomiting is not a reaction to fear. And no, the circus scene is way too central to "just drop it" because someone's pet horse doesn't fit it. Find me an example of people not recognisisng a demon (as being a demonic entity) while someone else vomits at the sight of one, and I'll reconsider.

Re: King-Kong scene. Never seen it, but to me it doesn't sound like it fits at all, because no-one in the circus scene looks afraid to start with - except maybe the little girl, and her reaction is so ambiguous that Occam would say it is more likely prelude to more vomiting than to fear.

Grey Wolf

[ThePhantasm]

To the best of my knowledge, vomiting is not a reaction to fear.

I agree that "fear" is far from being a good explanation of the vomiting, but according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vomiting, vomiting can occur from violent emotions, anxiety, and nervousness, all of which are very much tied to fear.

However, vomiting is typically associated with disgust rather than fear and I'm sure disgust is what Rich wanted to convey.