Hive minds versus Nested minds

[Brother Oni]

I'm not sure which is the better forum for this, so I picked the most general one.

Everyone is familiar with the concept of a hive mind - many individuals combining together to make single entity, the most famous example being the Borg from Star Trek.

I've been re-reading Ghost in the Shell 2 recently and the concept of a nested mind, that is a single mind capable of downloading itself into multiple individuals, caught my attention.

I know that philosophically, they're pretty much opposite concepts (the many into the one, compared to the one into the many), but from a functional, interaction point of view, is there actually a difference?

Suppose I was engaged in a conversation with drones 1 of 7 and 4 of 5, how would that be different to talking to Major Kusanagi body 1 and Major Kusanagi body 2?


The reason why I'm asking is that I'm trying to develop a character based around the nested mind concept, but I'm having issues differentiating it from the hive mind concept.

Anybody have any ideas or comments?

Edit: about the only difference I can think of, is that a hive mind would refer to themselves as 'we', while a nested mind would refer to itself as 'I'.

[Whammydill]

At any given time the hive mind knows what the drones know? Conversely the nested mind's drones experiences are only known by those drones?

[Lillith]

I think you could compare it to that talking to a hive mind would be like talking to a mirror. Big chance that both are going to say the same thing because they have the same brainwaves.

A nestmind is probably comparable to talking with twins (best I can think of). While the same brain and mind, they're two 'individuals' who have different brainwaves (as long as there's no connection between their minds, I'm not sure if that is what you mean), at that moment. So they might give a different answer to the same question because they have different memories from the moment they separated from the 'real one'.

[Form]

I imagine that a nested mind will at first differ very little in personality and response from its parent, but that it will evolve in a different direction from other nested minds as times passes and it has different experiences. Because of that a nested mind may end up very different from the original version and perhaps even end up opposing it.

The minds part of the hive mind I'd expect to always keep acting in unison with each other, since they're all a part of the same entity and have the same experiences.

[Cyrion]

You might also see a difference in how the two kinds of individuals react to a situation. The members of a hive mind will tend to be coordinated and act very well as a cooperative unit. On the other hand, the units of a nested mind will have a tendency to react in the same way because they're very similar (depending on how long they've been separated). Thus, they might be just as likely to get in each other's way as they would be to cooperate.

[SpiderMew]

A nested mind has the flaw of only really being able to process as one person. There would still need to be a main body or person to be the controll center for the whole group, and the nested mind intelegence is limited to the master person. Really only works well (i would think) when that master person is bat-poop crazy.

A hive mind is a bunch of individual minds who have formed the ability to connect with other minds in the hive, and send data to eachother. A hive mind isnt as limited because it dosnt need a master person or unit to give out orders.
Also with a hive mind, the more memebers of your hive that are closer to you, the smarter you all become because of your ability to process information faster.
Best example of a hive mind would be the Geth from the Mass Effect universe. Each Geth is actualy a small AI program, but they grew into a hive mind when they learned that conecting togeather makes them smarter.

[Starshade]

With a nestmind, you mean something simmiliar to Battlestar Galactica's number six, number eight, etc?

Tbh, it could be a bit stronger than a real hivemind for some practical purposes, since a "hive" could overrule the creativity of individuals, a mass of individuals could differentiate a bit, then bring back to the collective experience.

[Brother Oni]

At any given time the hive mind knows what the drones know? Conversely the nested mind's drones experiences are only known by those drones?

Since most examples of a hive mind have its component individuals acting in perfect or almost perfect unison, one must assume they have instantaneous or near instantaneous communications with each other, either by technology or magic.

For the purpose of comparability, I'm assuming the nested mind has similar capabilities, thus each extension knows what another extension knows.

A nestmind is probably comparable to talking with twins (best I can think of). While the same brain and mind, they're two 'individuals' who have different brainwaves (as long as there's no connection between their minds, I'm not sure if that is what you mean), at that moment.

With regard to the twins example, I don't regard that as a nested mind per se, otherwise you could regard clones as a nested mind. Republic Commandos from Star Wars for example would count as a nested mind under this definition as they're all clones of Jango Fett.

I think the issue I'm having distinguishing between the two is due to this 'knowledge update/connectivity' aspect. If the nested mind was only able to assimilate its experiences at intervals, rather than instaneously, then you would have differentiation between the different extensions after time, only for them to become the same after an update.

I suppose the level of interconnectivity would also affect how they behave in case of a communications breakdown. The components of a hive mind may not be able to function or only able to carry out low level tasks depending on how individualised they were prior to joining the hive mind (many of the recently coverted borg drones were able to go back to their past lives, while ones that were raised in the Collective had a great deal more trouble adjusting).
In comparison a nested mind would be able to operate with little to no loss of function, although the bodies might lose some of their effectiveness due to a loss of extra information from the other extensions.

On the other hand, the units of a nested mind will have a tendency to react in the same way because they're very similar (depending on how long they've been separated). Thus, they might be just as likely to get in each other's way as they would be to cooperate.

I see no reason why a nested mind would not be as effective responding to a situation as a hive mind, simply because it'd be like you telling your left and right legs to work together to let you run.

I do see your point if there is asynchronous connectivity between the extensions though. However I still feel they'd act well in unison - take a nested mind that was a soldier. In a combat situation, each extension would know what it was supposed to do and they'd know that their fellow extension would have 'have their back', because if you can't trust yourself, who can you trust?

A nested mind has the flaw of only really being able to process as one person. There would still need to be a main body or person to be the controll center for the whole group, and the nested mind intelegence is limited to the master person. Really only works well (i would think) when that master person is bat-poop crazy.

A hive mind is a bunch of individual minds who have formed the ability to connect with other minds in the hive, and send data to eachother. A hive mind isnt as limited because it dosnt need a master person or unit to give out orders.

While I mostly agree with these differences, I'm trying to work out how they would be different when a normal person interacts with them.

While having a central control person or main body certainly fits within the definition of a nested mind, it's not the one I'm working with. In the Ghost in the Shell example, there is a single person, which can copy herself into multiple bodies, which can all function independently. At the end of the mission, or when there's a need, a body can upload her information, experiences or even entire personality back to the original.

I also disagree that a hive mind isn't as limited. If anything a hive mind is more dependent on maintaining communication as its individual components may not be able to function independently due to never being forced to think for themselves (see my earlier comment about level of individually before being integrated into the hive mind).

As I understand the Geth, a single body is capable of not much more than being able to walk and shoot, thus keep them all separated and they'd get nothing of any importance accomplished.

With a nestmind, you mean something simmiliar to Battlestar Galactica's number six, number eight, etc?

I'm not familiar with the Battlestar Galactica reboot - as mentioned I came across the concept from the Ghost in the Shell 2 manga.

[IonDragon]

Since most examples of a hive mind have its component individuals acting in perfect or almost perfect unison, one must assume they have instantaneous or near instantaneous communications with each other, either by technology or magic.

For the purpose of comparability, I'm assuming the nested mind has similar capabilities, thus each extension knows what another extension knows.

I wouldn't assume that, because it is not a tenant of the concept of Nested Minds. The idea is basically the same as cloning a hard drive to multiple drives and then sticking all of them into computers and letting them go. That is precisely the difference. Each individual gets to act autonomously and communicate only when they chose to do so. Like the tachikomas. They all started with exactly the same programing, but after they became self aware, they experienced things separately.

They are not a perfect example because after the fact they would sync up so they couldn't tell you which body any given event occurred to, but they had distinct personalities develop and IIRC some had individual memories that were not sync'd.

[Brother Oni]

I wouldn't assume that, because it is not a tenant of the concept of Nested Minds. The idea is basically the same as cloning a hard drive to multiple drives and then sticking all of them into computers and letting them go. That is precisely the difference. Each individual gets to act autonomously and communicate only when they chose to do so. Like the tachikomas. They all started with exactly the same programing, but after they became self aware, they experienced things separately.

They are not a perfect example because after the fact they would sync up so they couldn't tell you which body any given event occurred to, but they had distinct personalities develop and IIRC some had individual memories that were not sync'd.

If constant or even asynchronous communication between the different extension is not a tenant of the nested mind concept, then wouldn't that make clones and identical twins an example of a nested mind?
This seems to run counter to the example presented in GitS2 of the Major.

With regard to the fuchikomas, I was under the belief that they were regularly reset to their baseline programming to prevent such differentiation occurring, much like the droids in Star Wars.
With the exception of Batou, who liked to use a particular individual fuchikoma, they were all interchangeable, so I agree they're a not perfect representation of a nested mind, but because their individual development is repeatedly wiped rather than their personalities becoming synchronised.

[IonDragon]

If constant or even asynchronous communication between the different extension is not a tenant of the nested mind concept, then wouldn't that make clones and identical twins an example of a nested mind?
This seems to run counter to the example presented in GitS2 of the Major.

With regard to the fuchikomas, I was under the belief that they were regularly reset to their baseline programming to prevent such differentiation occurring, much like the droids in Star Wars.
With the exception of Batou, who liked to use a particular individual fuchikoma, they were all interchangeable, so I agree they're a not perfect representation of a nested mind, but because their individual development is repeatedly wiped rather than their personalities becoming synchronised.

Bear in mind, I have not read the manga, I've only watched the movies and the anime but the tachikomas were quite different from the fuchikomas. They may have only been created for the anime, but I think they also appeared in the manga with much reduced screen time.

The fuchikomas are the worst example for the point I am trying to make because they all get set 'back to 0' fairly often, and never really make any strides to personal growth. However, if one person were to let's say, duplicate their cyberbrain and have the same one in two bodies there would be no reason they would have to communicate. One could go to America, while the other stayed in Japan. One could develop a taste for... opera (why not) while the other one develops a drinking habit. They would be more likely to develop along the same lines, as twins and 'nurture vs nature' point out, but they don't have to.

Their development is guided by the base imprint, but not dictated by it.

[Recaiden]

But I believe there is supposed to be some interconnectivity even between nested minds.
But they would not have the coordination of a hive mind, only similar responses, because they're not one mind, just almost identical minds.
They would likely have more of a variety of ideas than a hive mind, either because they become different people, or because they get different experiences in between times when they synchronize minds to change.

So, nested minds might connect, but they're not constantly connected like a hive mind.

[Coidzor]

So, sorta like Lucrezia from Girl Genius is a nested mind?

[Math_Mage]

In order to discuss this, we need to clarify what is meant by 'hive mind' and 'nested mind'. For convenience, define hive mind as a single consciousness operating many bodies simultaneously. Acceptable? But 'nested mind' lacks a clear definition. Is it a single consciousness that sends out copies in multiple bodies, which periodically return to sync their selves with the original or each other? Because that just seems like a hive mind with a time delay. To me, 'nested' implies a hierarchy more complicated than one governing many.

Here's an interesting thought. Consider a number of individuals, each with their own consciousness. Take a small group of individuals--say, four--and link them up through some kind of 'overmind', a collective consciousness. The one mind contains the other four, and manages them to some extent; yet the individuals remain distinct from each other.

I can't begin to imagine how this would work, but isn't that kinda the point?

EDIT: Maybe nested minds could refer to something more like this.

[golentan]

A hive mind is far more versatile and individual.

Because it is constructed of disparate components, each is capable of lending a unique process, algorithm, capacity, or other method from the get go. Even more so if the hive mind can integrate or assimilate other beings: it can learn or improve itself rapidly as the need arises.

A nested mind, on the other hand, must take greater time to train in order to improve such qualities. In many cases (such as thought patterning) this is extraordinarily difficult, having to go against one's tendencies. No greater capacity can be generated than existed in the first place, save for raw processing power (if they are synchronized and add minds).

Which, as any computer scientist worth their salt will tell you, is worthless. Sure, it provides capacity for greater things, but you only achieve greater things if you can take advantage of it with your algorithms and other tools.

Math_Mage: Yeah, that's how it goes down. Think, if you will, of your brain as being separate components. You have your visual cortex as one, you have your frontal lobe as another, and left brain and right brain as separate entities, and so forth. Now, look at an optical illusion. Your Visual Cortex will immediately tell you that the illusion is correct. Your frontal lobe will dispute that, and provide that it is an illusion. Your right brain will start being bored by the scenario or gushing about how cool it is (or some other emotion, I don't know what), and will dissect the aesthetics of the visual, while your left brain will pick it apart from a logical perspective and provide a rational solution. Since they are linked and similar in many fundaments, each component will also have various elements in similarity with the others, even as each has it's own clear and distinct individual personality. And you (math_mage the human being), as the overmind, view an illusion and (depending on your respective abilities) formulate a consensus assumption about it, the whole process occurring mostly subconsciously for you.

It's much nicer to do it with a multitude though.

[Brother Oni]

So bringing it back to my original question, how would interaction be different between the two different minds?

[golentan]

So bringing it back to my original question, how would interaction be different between the two different minds?

A hive mind would be more versatile: Quicker to understand points or change tactics in conversation, wider range of potential responses, etc. etc.

A nested mind would be more like talking to Joe, only more so, because there would be more Joe to talk to.

Like I said.

[RandomNPC]

every time I've read a clarification people have started ignoring it in three posts. So here's what I get out of it.

Speaking with any member of a hive mind is like speaking with any other member of a hive mind, as they are always connected.

Speaking with a member of a nested mind depends on time.
Lets say four nested minds are created, and you speak with two of them within minuets of creation, they would seem like a hive mind because they've got the same things going on in the noggin.
The other two you send off into the world for a year and try to have the same conversation as you did with the first two.
If they stuck together they will have simmilar conversations, with a years worth of experiences to add in.
If they split and went totally different ways, it'd be like talking to two people who were raised the same and just recently took different paths.

do I understand and explain well enough? I think I got it...

[Math_Mage]

every time I've read a clarification people have started ignoring it in three posts.

Determined to fulfill that prediction, aren't you?

[Brother Oni]

A hive mind would be more versatile: Quicker to understand points or change tactics in conversation, wider range of potential responses, etc. etc.

Would this still be applicable if the individual components of the hive mind were not fully independent before integration?

Taking the Borg example, a recently converted Klingon warrior would bring a knowledge of tactics and combat to the hive mind. What would a baby born inside the Collective and raised entirely within the Collective be able to bring that would advance the experience/knowledge base of the hive mind?

Would talking to a hive mind still be essentially talking to a single person with a component nominated to be the spokesman for the mind? Or would each of the components voice their own opinions, the mind has a quick vote to see what they agree to, then a single component would announce the results?

I'm not arguing your definitions, I'm just trying to get a clearer idea of the differences so I can help develop the character.

Speaking with a member of a nested mind depends on time.
Lets say four nested minds are created, and you speak with two of them within minuets of creation, they would seem like a hive mind because they've got the same things going on in the noggin.
The other two you send off into the world for a year and try to have the same conversation as you did with the first two.
If they stuck together they will have simmilar conversations, with a years worth of experiences to add in.
If they split and went totally different ways, it'd be like talking to two people who were raised the same and just recently took different paths.

So there's no communication or knowledge sharing between the different extensions of a nested mind? When they're created, they're now completely separate, fully independent individuals?
That sounds more like 'simple' cloning rather than a nested mind, but I guess the two concepts are similar in that respect.

[IonDragon]

So there's no communication or knowledge sharing between the different extensions of a nested mind? When they're created, they're now completely separate, fully independent individuals?
That sounds more like 'simple' cloning rather than a nested mind, but I guess the two concepts are similar in that respect.

This is how I would understand it, yes. Communication is possible, but I think it would mostly be limited to the kind of communication available between any two people normally. This is going to depend on the setting and what exactly we are talking about, however from my understanding of the terms that is the default set up. In essence, glorified, technological cloning of the mind.

Defaulting back to GitS, I'm assuming you mean the events that took place in the second movie when the Major was controlling multiple bodies. I am confident that in that scenario her cyberbrain stayed in one place and remotely operated the other body (or two, I can't recall) at the same time being much more like a Hive Mind or some other form of controlling consciousness.

[Math_Mage]

So there's no communication or knowledge sharing between the different extensions of a nested mind? When they're created, they're now completely separate, fully independent individuals?
That sounds more like 'simple' cloning rather than a nested mind, but I guess the two concepts are similar in that respect.

Clones lack a vertical relationship with an overmind. Examine the vertical relationships and you find the primary difference: a nested mind is built from the bottom up, a hive mind from the top down. A hive is one mind running many bodies; a nested mind is many different individual minds cooperating to form a collective consciousness. The components of a nested mind may disagree with each other; the components of a hive mind cannot, because their attitudes and opinions all spring from the same source.

To answer your question, talking with a hive mind would be essentially the same no matter which body you spoke with. It's all coming from the same consciousness. Assuming you could talk to individual components of a nested mind, you'd likely have a very different experience with each one; but it's more likely you could only communicate with the collective. Another pithy comparison, I guess: You talk to the individual representative of the hive mind, who isn't really an individual; or you talk to the collective consciousness of a nested mind, which is really an individual. Where in one case you have to wrap your head around the fact that you're hearing the same mind from different bodies, in the other you have to wrap your head around the fact that you're talking to one person and not just the group vote of many individuals.

[SDF]

If constant or even asynchronous communication between the different extension is not a tenant of the nested mind concept, then wouldn't that make clones and identical twins an example of a nested mind?
This seems to run counter to the example presented in GitS2 of the Major.

This would not be the case as a nested mind would be a software distro of the originator. A clone or twin would be more analogous to identical hardware.

[Yarram]

A nested mind would be more like talking to Joe, only more so, because there would be more Joe to talk to.

This. A Hive Mind is intelligent. While it can only process so much at a time, there is no doubt that a Hive Mind is as intelligent as the smartest person in it, and more. While a Hive Mind may make less progress or discovery than a collective of autonomous minds, a nested mind is only as smart as one person, and any vice that person has is spread across the whole.

If the nested mind is stupid, then it will fail epically, and even if intelligent, a Hive Mind's value in its adaptability and coordination of different skills to make a whole. A nested mind only has one set of skills, and if that set doesn't include survival skills, it will be a case of, "How much faster can we duplicate than die."

A Nested mind's only value is that of a Zombies. They can out-breed and convert the enemy to their side as their own numbers deplete. The only way to crush that kind of nested mind is to cut them off. Nested minds also have the advantage of slightly more intelligence than zombies.

Without the ability to imprint themselves on others, a nested mind is worthless as a self-sustaining entity, unless the personality duplicated works in exact harmony with itself.

[golentan]

Would this still be applicable if the individual components of the hive mind were not fully independent before integration?

Taking the Borg example, a recently converted Klingon warrior would bring a knowledge of tactics and combat to the hive mind. What would a baby born inside the Collective and raised entirely within the Collective be able to bring that would advance the experience/knowledge base of the hive mind?

Would talking to a hive mind still be essentially talking to a single person with a component nominated to be the spokesman for the mind? Or would each of the components voice their own opinions, the mind has a quick vote to see what they agree to, then a single component would announce the results?

I'm not arguing your definitions, I'm just trying to get a clearer idea of the differences so I can help develop the character.

Yes, to a certain degree. A non-independent mind cannot bring new knowledge with it into the Gestalt, but (barring entirely artificial standardized brains) will have different neural pathways develop. In fact, rapid ability to learn correlates strongly with rate of brain growth in children, so simply by acting as a component in the overall organism a creature should act as something of a "learning capacitor" if it's not being used simply to redistribute knowledge to prevent loss of vital information in the event of death of a key member.

Technobabble aside: Yes: different people have different intrinsic forms and amounts of capacity to contribute regardless of starting knowledge. A klingon baby couldn't bring klingon martial arts or Shakespeare in the original to the borg, but it could bring an aggressive learning style and physical awareness that would help with developing, learning, or reassessing old assimilated knowledge on these matters as it grew more than, say, a human would. And a warrior should be well able to integrate trained material to be usable for others.

[Math_Mage]

This. A Hive Mind is intelligent. While it can only process so much at a time, there is no doubt that a Hive Mind is as intelligent as the smartest person in it, and more. While a Hive Mind may make less progress or discovery than a collective of autonomous minds, a nested mind is only as smart as one person, and any vice that person has is spread across the whole.

If the nested mind is stupid, then it will fail epically, and even if intelligent, a Hive Mind's value in its adaptability and coordination of different skills to make a whole. A nested mind only has one set of skills, and if that set doesn't include survival skills, it will be a case of, "How much faster can we duplicate than die."

A Nested mind's only value is that of a Zombies. They can out-breed and convert the enemy to their side as their own numbers deplete. The only way to crush that kind of nested mind is to cut them off. Nested minds also have the advantage of slightly more intelligence than zombies.

Without the ability to imprint themselves on others, a nested mind is worthless as a self-sustaining entity, unless the personality duplicated works in exact harmony with itself.

Can you define the terms 'hive mind' and 'nested mind' as you are using them?

In fact, could someone please link to a coherent discussion of what a nested mind is? 'Hive mind' seems to be a catch-all term for collectives that share some aspect of consciousness, from Star Trek's Borg to the Matrix's Machines to Doctor Who's Cybermen to Starcraft's Overmind--even Pain's puppet bodies from Naruto are called such. 'Nested mind', on the other hand, does not seem to be discussed much of anywhere.

EDIT: Well, shows what I get for not reading the OP. But what's interesting about clones? [/embarrassed]

[Brother Oni]

This is how I would understand it, yes. Communication is possible, but I think it would mostly be limited to the kind of communication available between any two people normally. This is going to depend on the setting and what exactly we are talking about, however from my understanding of the terms that is the default set up. In essence, glorified, technological cloning of the mind.

I think from the discussion here, there are essentially two types of nested minds - ones with constant communication and ones without.

Ones with constant communication, be it by technology (GitS with wireless broadband) or magic (telepathy), would be very similar to a Hive mind. A subset of this would be ones with asynchronous communication where the extension differentiate to a noticable degree between updates and drift between the two types.

Ones without special communication abilities, would be much more distinct from hive minds - similar individuals with the same goal, but without any special innate co-ordination. These would cover clones and other situations where the extension develop into their own separate personality and independent individual.

Defaulting back to GitS, I'm assuming you mean the events that took place in the second movie when the Major was controlling multiple bodies. I am confident that in that scenario her cyberbrain stayed in one place and remotely operated the other body (or two, I can't recall) at the same time being much more like a Hive Mind or some other form of controlling consciousness.

Well I'm referring to the second manga, which explores the concept a bit more than the movie, where all it's mentioned is that she can't download more of her advanced combat capabilities into the body she's occupying as the pleasure doll software can't handle it.

This would not be the case as a nested mind would be a software distro of the originator. A clone or twin would be more analogous to identical hardware.

Well, you still need software to run the hardware.
I think it'll be easier to stick to clones in the sci-fi sense (ie with built in personality copying) rather than strict scientific sense, but there's nothing stopping the nested mind from copying itself onto a 'blank' clone as far as I can see.

A Nested mind's only value is that of a Zombies. They can out-breed and convert the enemy to their side as their own numbers deplete. The only way to crush that kind of nested mind is to cut them off. Nested minds also have the advantage of slightly more intelligence than zombies.

Without the ability to imprint themselves on others, a nested mind is worthless as a self-sustaining entity, unless the personality duplicated works in exact harmony with itself.

It seems to me that you're assuming a Nested Mind can't learn and cannot communicate with the other extensions (so less than the second type I proposed earlier).

While you value them on the same level as a Zombie, depending on the capability of the original mind, you could end up with an Agent Smith from the Matrix sequels where it just simply dominates the environment.

Technobabble aside: Yes: different people have different intrinsic forms and amounts of capacity to contribute regardless of starting knowledge. A klingon baby couldn't bring klingon martial arts or Shakespeare in the original to the borg, but it could bring an aggressive learning style and physical awareness that would help with developing, learning, or reassessing old assimilated knowledge on these matters as it grew more than, say, a human would. And a warrior should be well able to integrate trained material to be usable for others.

This is bordering on a nature versus nurture situation here, but I'd rather keep the thread focused on the original topic.

Can you define the terms 'hive mind' and 'nested mind' as you are using them?

EDIT: Well, shows what I get for not reading the OP. But what's interesting about clones? [/embarrassed]

That's the problem that I'm trying to get my head around. Philosophically, they're opposite concepts - a hive mind is made of many individual minds, while a nested mind is many individuals made of one mind.
As you've said, top down compared to bottom up.

Clones in the sci-fi sense (ie with personality copying) would count as a nested mind under certain interpretations, as they they're many individuals made from one mind.
This would impart them with an additional set of attributes, not least improved effectiveness in combat, since you always know you can trust yourself to watch your back.

SDF mentioned that clones would probably be identical (or near enough) hardware rather software distribution (copying of the nested mind), but I still think you need the software to run the hardware.

[hamishspence]

In the Star Wars Bounty Hunters Wars trilogy (The Mandalorian Armour, Slave Ship, Hard Merchandise) there is an alien which is basically a nested mind- and one of its lesser minds grows smart enough to overthrow its "parent".

[golentan]

Yes. Some people's brains are hardwired differently. This gives them different abilities to think in certain patterns, at different speeds, and what not. The structure on which you run software affects the outcome. When the hardware comes with software to take advantage of this, you get different results. This is not a deterministic statement about what they will grow to become as a person, but different people have intrinsically different potential for different things.

And a hive mind should and could use that to best advantage. You don't convert a flour mill to make paper unless you have to, any more than you use a barnacle to study how to stalk prey on the serengetti, and a hive mind always has the option (once it reaches a certain size or if it can assimilate other beings) of finding a creature with advantageous tendencies for it's goal.

Without falling into a planet of hat-trick, I would expect a more warlike species with a history of martial prowess to breed for increased spatial awareness, superior motion sensitivity, and aggressive learning, even without bringing eugenics or genetic engineering into the mix. This tendency is ideal for learning physical combat, rapid high fidelity memory formation, engineering, and various other pursuits.

This holds true within a species as well. An unusually large visual cortex here, an unusually active amygdala there, someone with synesthesia on the one side, someone with high functioning autism on another. Each one carries an advantage to "running" certain varieties of "software," often at the expense of others. These hardwired changes in the brain are the bread and butter of an effective hive mind, far more so than "Eat scientist, gain Relativity."

[hamishspence]

Even when it's a group of clones, there can be differentiation into warriors, scouts, reproductives, etc- with them acting as a group, even without much in the way of minds:

http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/n....lasso?id=7438