[BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn: OOC Thread 9

[riccaru]

Discussing them beforehand prevents bad elements from being associated with the plot.

In any case, the actions of Takeshi here qualify as a major plot, not a major reveal, even by your own standards.

Has anyone thought of the distinct possibility that Central would intervene if Takeshi was going to make things worse? It's a pretty grim idea, but couldn't Central just order the Omni to put him down hard if he were to screw up? Heck, maybe the Central is actually what's keeping the outer layers of the rukon as slummy. That would be kind of odd though. Still, plots can pretty much snowball from here.

[nothingclever]

*snort* Hehe. Nice punrricane NC.

Thanks, I'm glad to see someone enjoys them as much as I do.

[Sucrose]

Has anyone thought of the distinct possibility that Central would intervene if Takeshi was going to make things worse? It's a pretty grim idea, but couldn't Central just order the Omni to put him down hard if he were to screw up? Heck, maybe the Central is actually what's keeping the outer layers of the rukon as slummy. That would be kind of odd though. Still, plots can pretty much snowball from here.

I'm not saying that Innis's plot is inherently bad. I'm saying that it should have been brought up for discussion, rather than kick-started without the agreement of the community.

[13_CBS]

Has anyone thought of the distinct possibility that Central would intervene if Takeshi was going to make things worse? It's a pretty grim idea, but couldn't Central just order the Omni to put him down hard if he were to screw up?

Depending on what sort of folks our Central 46 are, they might not actually care.

Heck, maybe the Central is actually what's keeping the outer layers of the rukon as slummy. That would be kind of odd though.

Again, depending on what sort of folks our Central 46 are, elitism may play a factor.

[Frozen_Feet]

Discussing them beforehand prevents bad elements from being associated with the plot.

Unfortunately, some elements only earn their place much later from their initial appearances. Sometimes, it's impossible to tell how bad or good an element is beforehand. Discussing all potential ways any given element could affect the plot takes away time that could be used to write the actual story - for the good of the game, we have to be willing to let some things slide, or it runs higher risk of stagnating.

Ranty rant ahead:

Spoiler

Show

Lets put it this way - we've had some ridiculously in-depth discussions of smallest things in the OOC. Many arguments and plotholes could've been pointed out or filled in-game, and it'd have been much more interesting that way. By demanding each plot element goes through the OOC first, we potentially choke our own creativity, as introducing new elements becomes a chore. It is more prone to causing continuity lock out, since new players will get the feeling of walking on egg shells.

I disagree on your assessment of Takeshi actions, because you forget one thing - Takeshi was drunk when he send his initial message to Emet. Emet, Yuuta or any number of other characters could've told Takeshi to sit down and shut up any moment. Same goes for his rant about his plans. It didn't have to, and doesn't have to, be something that touches anyone beside Takeshi and his immediate circle.

It was one character's bright idea. It was made to sound out like irreversible damage was already done to the setting. Any number of in-game factors could've halted, and can halt, Innis's ploy on its tracks.

Ultimately, this boils down to OOC reacting VS IC reacting. I prefer the latter, because I'm here to read and write the story, not semantical arguments about nature of Rukongai.

[Frozen_Feet]

Has anyone thought of the distinct possibility that Central would intervene if Takeshi was going to make things worse? It's a pretty grim idea, but couldn't Central just order the Omni to put him down hard if he were to screw up? Heck, maybe the Central is actually what's keeping the outer layers of the rukon as slummy. That would be kind of odd though. Still, plots can pretty much snowball from here.

I'm a central member, and unless I'm terribly mistaken, I was the first one to bring up in-game possibility of Central saying 'no' to Takeshi. However, I will say this now: I'm not particularly interested in talking out how or why Central would act on the matter. I would rather have a character, in the frellin' game, send them a letter, from his or her perspective, and then decide, from the perspective of in-game Central 46, whether action is necessary.

[Sucrose]

Unfortunately, some elements only earn their place much later from their initial appearances. Sometimes, it's impossible to tell how bad or good an element is beforehand. Discussing all potential ways any given element could affect the plot takes away time that could be used to write the actual story - for the good of the game, we have to be willing to let some things slide, or it runs higher risk of stagnating.

Ranty rant ahead:

Spoiler

Show

Lets put it this way - we've had some ridiculously in-depth discussions of smallest things in the OOC. Many arguments and plotholes could've been pointed out or filled in-game, and it'd have been much more interesting that way. By demanding each plot element goes through the OOC first, we potentially choke our own creativity, as introducing new elements becomes a chore. It is more prone to causing continuity lock out, since new players will get the feeling of walking on egg shells.

I disagree on your assessment of Takeshi actions, because you forget one thing - Takeshi was drunk when he send his initial message to Emet. Emet, Yuuta or any number of other characters could've told Takeshi to sit down and shut up any moment. Same goes for his rant about his plans. It didn't have to, and doesn't have to, be something that touches anyone beside Takeshi and his immediate circle.

It was one character's bright idea. It was made to sound out like irreversible damage was already done to the setting. Any number of in-game factors could've halted, and can halt, Innis's ploy on its tracks.

Ultimately, this boils down to OOC reacting VS IC reacting. I prefer the latter, because I'm here to read and write the story, not semantical arguments about nature of Rukongai.

So, your assumption is that any event would eventually lead to good RP, then? That there aren't story elements that could cause serious damage to the feel of the game simply by their introduction?

If that's the case, we have nothing to discuss. I disagree, very strongly, with your belief.

[riccaru]

How in Cthulhu's name is Edward getting away with all these puns? Seriously, I know he's a "sweet talker" but there should be a limit! by Gods people!

[horngeek]

So, your assumption is that any event would eventually lead to good RP, then? That there aren't story elements that could cause serious damage to the feel of the game simply by their introduction?

If that's the case, we have nothing to discuss. I disagree, very strongly, with your belief.

Define 'Good RP'.

{{Incidentally, I believe we're now obsessed with 'good RP' to the exclusion of, quite frankly, having fun. Which is the primary purpose of this game.}}

[13_CBS]

[Rukongai]

Kyou yawns, stretching a bit as she wanders around, looking for breakfast. For a moment she stops, blinking as she hears loud voices not too far from her. Without hesitation, she hops across a few roofs to investigate.

After a few moments, she catches up to Yoshi and the twins, looking down at their antics with something between annoyance and amusement. She hums a bit at Yoshi... I think that guy's a 12ther... Hm. Wonder what he's doing with the screwballs.

I...somehow missed this post. Apologies, strawberryman.

[Sucrose]

Define 'Good RP'.

{{Incidentally, I believe we're now obsessed with 'good RP' to the exclusion of, quite frankly, having fun. Which is the primary purpose of this game.}}

Good RP is enjoyable RP.

I believe that there are twists that exist that inevitably cause more harm than good.

[Innis Cabal]

Overview for Plot

1. Takeshi redoes the Kido Corp to not be a total mess of buildings, bringing it from “Crazy Maze of Streets and Walls” to “Open streets that are on a grid and buildings that make sense”. His plan was to pull in the 7th to help to show the Gotei that the two groups can work together. If this is shot down, he’s doing it himself with his own Division.
2. Hiring Rukon workers to fill in the work force. He has personal reasons. No I’m not saying because they’re important to his character. They will get paid and taught how to defend themselves from gangs so they don’t get robbed.
3. Later plans to try and insert some Kido Corp goods in the Rukon, so that eventually. EVENTUALLY they won’t be as crappy and that their opinion of Soul Society is imporved. This is the longest term and area most intended to fail.
4. Combat the Yakuza and other Gangs in the Rukon through the Kido Corp. Again, Personal. Reasons.
5. Peeve off the Upper class. Read above. Personal Reasons.
6. Cement his carrer as the Kido Corp, showing he won’t back down from opposition just because they don’t like what he’s doing. He’s no puppet, and he wants to show it. Again, lots and lots of backstory and personal reasons.

That’s all that’s planned folks. No major instant overturn of the Rukon. No gung-ho Civil war. In fact, there’s no real long term plan on getting out to the Rukon with Kido Crop. Goods. It’s just a long term plan that if it happens, will be great but its not really banked on.

{{Incidentally, I believe we're now obsessed with 'good RP' to the exclusion of, quite frankly, having fun. Which is the primary purpose of this game.}}

As it stands, the constant bickering, people ganging up on everything I post and demanding me to explain my every action. Or telling me I'll have my points argued down so they do not become mainstream is causing me not to have alot of fun with this game.

[Frozen_Feet]

So, your assumption is that any event would eventually lead to good RP, then? That there aren't story elements that could cause serious damage to the feel of the game simply by their introduction?

If that's the case, we have nothing to discuss. I disagree, very strongly, with your belief.

More foaming at the mouth to follow:

Spoiler

Show

In general, yes, I do believe any elements can make a good story, if the storymakers are good enough. For this game, I do think and agree there are elements that would cause damage to the game. But if we have to pass every idea through the OOC the prevent those, we have far bigger problems than said elements.

The restrictions and guidelines for new ideas should be something that can be summarized in few sentences, so that someone can potentially contribute after reading the first post, and not be forced to go through 5 pages of OOC discussion for every page of IC.

Many problems can be solved and many elements redeemed by following the story's own logic concerning them, that's what I'm saying. The worth of many elements is nebulous at best - trying to discern the value of each one beforehand is waste of time, when there are players (like me) who could latch on to minor details any given moment and make them much more important than they initially were.

Even in the case of elements that could harm the game simply by their introduction, I'm not convinced we can't just say NO when such elements appear IC, because they should be bloody damn obvious by definition. This board does allow deleting posts without moderator rights, after all.

[Draken]

Looks like a good setup to me.

Innis' plot, I mean, the outline makes it look like a good plot.

[strawberryman]

As it stands, the constant bickering, people ganging up on everything I post and demanding me to explain my every action. Or telling me I'll have my points argued down so they do not become mainstream is causing me not to have alot of fun with this game.

Because, like other people whose names I won't mention, certain numbers of us are just trying to pick on you and have no other good reason for it.

Right.

[Sucrose]

More foaming at the mouth to follow:

Spoiler

Show

In general, yes, I do believe any elements can make a good story, if the storymakers are good enough. For this game, I do think and agree there are elements that would cause damage to the game. But if we have to pass every idea through the OOC the prevent those, we have far bigger problems than said elements.

The restrictions and guidelines for new ideas should be something that can be summarized in few sentences, so that someone can potentially contribute after reading the first post, and not be forced to go through 5 pages of OOC discussion for every page of IC.

Many problems can be solved and many elements redeemed by following the story's own logic concerning them, that's what I'm saying. The worth of many elements is nebulous at best - trying to discern the value of each one beforehand is waste of time, when there are players (like me) who could latch on to minor details any given moment and make them much more important than they initially were.

Even in the case of elements that could harm the game simply by their introduction, I'm not convinced we can't just say NO when such elements appear IC, because they should be bloody damn obvious by definition. This board does allow deleting posts without moderator rights, after all.

As stated, we have nothing further to discuss.

[Innis Cabal]

Looks like a good setup to me.

Innis' plot, I mean, the outline makes it look like a good plot.

I thought so to I didn't honestly expect this many problems with it. Came as quite a shock to me.

[KnightDisciple]

I'm hoping "combat the Yakuza" is more metaphorical, accomplished through means of economics and the like, rather than literal fights.

[riccaru]

I'm hoping "combat the Yakuza" is more metaphorical, accomplished through means of economics and the like, rather than literal fights.

A captain level fighting a few rukon yakuza wouldn't be a fight, more of a slaughter.

[Sucrose]

A captain level fighting a few rukon yakuza wouldn't be a fight, more of a slaughter.

Which is presumably why KD would prefer that it be an indirect conflict.

[Innis Cabal]

I'm hoping "combat the Yakuza" is more metaphorical, accomplished through means of economics and the like, rather than literal fights.

I haven't planned it that far. And I'd rather like not to. I don't see how it being literal or figurative changes anything. How everything plays out is how everything plays out. Other people have plots that are going on to. We'll see how they all mesh.

Because, like other people whose names I won't mention, certain numbers of us are just trying to pick on you and have no other good reason for it.

Right.

Everyone else is allowed to voice their opinion when other people are being nasty. I just did it in a lump post.

[13_CBS]

Overview for Plot

1. Takeshi redoes the Kido Corp to not be a total mess of buildings, bringing it from “Crazy Maze of Streets and Walls” to “Open streets that are on a grid and buildings that make sense”. His plan was to pull in the 7th to help to show the Gotei that the two groups can work together. If this is shot down, he’s doing it himself with his own Division.
2. Hiring Rukon workers to fill in the work force. He has personal reasons. No I’m not saying because they’re important to his character. They will get paid and taught how to defend themselves from gangs so they don’t get robbed.
3. Later plans to try and insert some Kido Corp goods in the Rukon, so that eventually. EVENTUALLY they won’t be as crappy and that their opinion of Soul Society is imporved. This is the longest term and area most intended to fail.
4. Combat the Yakuza and other Gangs in the Rukon through the Kido Corp. Again, Personal. Reasons.
5. Peeve off the Upper class. Read above. Personal Reasons.
6. Cement his carrer as the Kido Corp, showing he won’t back down from opposition just because they don’t like what he’s doing. He’s no puppet, and he wants to show it. Again, lots and lots of backstory and personal reasons.

That...sounds really really interesting, actually. If you ever need them, Shinji and Ikimi ought to be available for your use; if Takeshi ever talks to them about it, the twins are likely to join in (or at least Shinji is) since they were probably raised to look on commoners favorably.

[Draken]

I don't really see why there is so much fuss about it either. Takeshi's plan can go south, it happens, happens to the best plans, and much mor elikely to happen to the drunk plans. And if it happens, the Central 46 should punish him according to the grievance of the result, In Character, after the screw-ups are all said and done.

But it should really all be solved IC, specially because he is just planning, not acting. Any character can just go in and kick sense into his head (actual kicking is optional).

It's what I find wonderful about Las Noches, you know, it is widely accepted that any character there can do anything they want, but if they screw up then the espada will punish them, harshly, or worse, Von Geister will melt their faces (literally, death not necessarily included).

It should be the same for SS, really... Well, minus Von Geister, the punishment there comes from Central 46(5) and 3rd Division.

[Innis Cabal]

That...sounds really really interesting, actually. If you ever need them, Shinji and Ikimi ought to be available for your use; if Takeshi ever talks to them about it, the twins are likely to join in (or at least Shinji is) since they were probably raised to look on commoners favorably.

Why thank you. Like I said, from what everyone was telling me as we were discussing and planning it out, it seemed to be recived rather positively.

There will be plenty of room or plenty of people to get involved in this plot. Its not one I intend to really push until later. Its going to take IC time for everything to click and chances are most of said things won't happen.

I am a "Play it as it rolls" player. I can't see the future. None of that might happen. *Shrug* We'll just have to see. Thats what makes it fun.

[strawberryman]

Everyone else is allowed to voice their opinion when other people are being nasty. I just did it in a lump post.

And I have the right to rebuke it as nonsense at least in my own case, personal feelings for certain people aside. Excuse me if I take a certain level of annoyance towards attempting (or at least seeming like it) to victimize ones self.

Nothing else to say here.

[13_CBS]

And I have the right to rebuke it as nonsense at least in my own case, personal feelings for certain people aside. Excuse me if I take a certain level of annoyance towards attempting (or at least seeming like it) to victimize ones self.

Nothing else to say here.

I understand that you're...miffed at Innis, but for the sake of this thread and this game, could we leave the bad feelings behind and go back to enjoying the game?

[Sucrose]

I understand that you're...miffed at Innis, but for the sake of this thread and this game, could we leave the bad feelings behind and go back to enjoying the game?

I'm quite certain that Innis Cabal can defend himself, 13.

[Innis Cabal]

And I have the right to rebuke it as nonsense at least in my own case, personal feelings for certain people aside. Excuse me if I take a certain level of annoyance towards attempting (or at least seeming like it) to victimize ones self.

Nothing else to say here.

Not disputing that. Heck, I'll fight to the death to defend your right to say it. But, I'm still going to say what I said and leave it at that. And if you wanna step in and call it nonsense...well...go ahead. I even said I might have been a bit sensitive. Not going to dispuite that either.

But, I know several people have actually not gotten into this game because of claimed bullying and personal issues. And frankly that bothers me. We're supposed to be an open community, and I've got PM's saying people want to join but. Well, there shouldn't be any buts. There should just be new players, and new characters in the threads.

I myself would like to bury those, this is a new start and we should all. Every one of us, take a fresh start. Everyone's free to do as they choose. But I know at least I will freely RP and discuss anything with anyone even if we've had arguments in the past. New start. New chances to write a story. Thats why I'm here. Again, its everyone's perogitive to do so or not do so. And no one can fault you for it, or even make anyone do otherwise.

Its a free country. The only thing we have to follow is the Forum rules.

I'm quite certain that Innis Cabal can defend himself, 13.

Yep, fully in my ability to do so. But 13 has ever right to ask the personal issues be left at the door for the sake of the game. Thats all I have to say on the matter

If people wanna continue, they know how to reach me. [email protected] thats my MSN tag. Or PM me here on my account. Either way. Lets take it out of the OOC for everyone's sake.

[Viera Champion]

As it stands, the constant bickering, people ganging up on everything I post and demanding me to explain my every action. Or telling me I'll have my points argued down so they do not become mainstream is causing me not to have alot of fun with this game.

I must agree with him here and state that this seems to start being true for a lot of people, luckily I have managed to avoid to much criticism of what I'm doing. And I don't WANT to put anybody on the spot, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to right now. I know for a fact that DoomITP quit this because of KnightDisciple's constant criticisms of EVERYTHING he did.

And for that matter, I know your intentions are good KD, but you do seem to have problems with practically EVERYTHING.

[13_CBS]

I'm quite certain that Innis Cabal can defend himself, 13.

Yes, but I get the feeling that these harsh criticisms will be flying back and forth, doing little to convince either parties of their faults (whatever they are) but doing much to raise tempers, and I don't really like it when people get angry. It gets in the way of things, you see.