Naruto Manga thread (Spoilers)

[devinkowalczyk]

Sooo... Turn out Naruto is nowhere near indestructible after all. Who could have guessed?

Also: with what Kisame and Guy showed this week, I don't get why anyone would need Tailed Beasts at all. They both have more Chakra than weakest TBs, and are (potentially) far more destructive. Sure, TB host can be strong with much less training, but he is also a constant danger to your side, and besides, with treatment they get it's a wonder most of them haven't went AWOL. Hell, maybe these that Akatsuki capture were AWOL.

I think that potential power bonus is enough to risk it. Sure some (Kakashi, Gai, Sanin) are stronger then them, but they do become very strong in their own right. Like when Gaara was able to stop the huge explosion over the city. I doubt he could do that now. Or how Bee was able to take on 4 S class ninja rogues.

[lord_khaine]

I really doubt Gai is in any danger of dying, he isnt central enough for it to have real impact on the story, and the author isnt killing people at random.

As for all the problems regarding the hosts, then to start with all we can say for certain is that people like Kakashi and Gai is in the same class as them, but those people are freaks of nature compared to normal ninja's, and not something you can count on to show up each generation.

With the tailed beasts on the other hand, as long as you find a decent host then you are sure to get 1 superninja, who is able to lay waste to a town on his own.

[Thrawn183]

I just want to see Rock Lee win a real fight.

[VanBuren]

I just want to see Rock Lee win a real fight.

That's about as likely as Chad having a fight where he doesn't get curbstomped.

[lord_khaine]

I just want to see Rock Lee win a real fight.

He did win his first one against Sasuke.

[devinkowalczyk]

That is true, he did kick the crap outta sasuke before the semifinals.
Of course, shortly after that Sasuke surpassed him by being able to mimic his reduced speed style attacks plus sharingan.


Wait...HE ISN'T EVEN IN THIS ARC!

[lord_khaine]

That is true, he did kick the crap outta sasuke before the semifinals.
Of course, shortly after that Sasuke surpassed him by being able to mimic his reduced speed style attacks plus sharingan.

We cant really be sure about this though, since Lee did have the option of opening his gates like Gai is doing now.

Still, at this point Sasuke are far above him, but that doesnt say much, since at this point Naruto could beat him in speed and power as well.

[Drolyt]

Go Gai! I really liked the latest chapter, we finally got to see Shark Man's motivation, which is cool.

[Irbis]

Sooo... Gai can defeat anyone with a single punch?

Now that I think about it, why no one else opens any gates? Instant tailed beast, if you know how to do it. Is it really so hard to open 8th gate reliably (iirc, didn't the ninth gate give you the power greater than that of the Fox, then killed you when you closed it)?

Poor Kisame, I don't see how he'll walk out of this.

And isn't the riddle who Kisame saw as 4th Kage finally solved? But then, why was he so surprised Madara is in Akatsuki?

[lord_khaine]

Now that I think about it, why no one else opens any gates? Instant tailed beast, if you know how to do it. Is it really so hard to open 8th gate reliably (iirc, didn't the ninth gate give you the power greater than that of the Fox, then killed you when you closed it)?

opening even the first couple of gates are apperently a rare talent, and opening more gates is suposed to be very unhealthy (though not as unhealthy as getting stabbed by another ninja).

opening the last gate would give you power equal to that of a hokage, but kill you short after (that was how it was explained first time we heard of the gates).

[Frozen_Feet]

There are only eight gates. Opening the last one momentarily gives power greater than that of a kage's by consuming the user's whole body as a fuel.

When Lee opened... was it the first three gates?... he broke every single bone in his body. Even if Gaara hadn't been there to deliver coupe de grace, he would've taken months, probably years to heal.

So, it's not the sort of an ability most people could use - they would win a single battle, at the cost of incapacitating themselves for the war. Only taijutsu masters who've conditioned their body to the extreme can open more than the first one in any safe manner.

[KnightDisciple]

Lee ended up opening 5 in his fight with Gaara. That alone wrecked him pretty bad.

Gai's opened up to 7 Gates with no adverse affects.

In my mind, this means it takes a lot of time and training to be able to open those gates without wrecking your body, even putting aside the death sentence of the 8th gate.

Also, I love the "it's not chakra, it's glowy blue sweat that's evaporating" bit. Because it totally didn't look like chakra, yeah...

[Drolyt]

Yeah, Gai seems to be going against the whole theme of passing the torch to the next generation, since the only member of the next generation stronger than Gai is Naruto (well, Sasuke too, but he's a traitor). Might have something to do with his youth obsession, but really Lee's performance has been underwhelming given what we've seen of Gai.

[KnightDisciple]

Yeah, Gai seems to be going against the whole theme of passing the torch to the next generation, since the only member of the next generation stronger than Gai is Naruto (well, Sasuke too, but he's a traitor). Might have something to do with his youth obsession, but really Lee's performance has been underwhelming given what we've seen of Gai.

I wouldn't say that. Remember, that was Genin Lee. He's Chuunin now.

If you accept the movies as semi-fact, Lee can use 5 gates with no real harm, and can even mix in his drunken boxing.

I'd say Lee has at least as much potential as Gai. If not more. He just has a more linear progression to his ability.

I think it's more that we just haven't seen Lee enough lately to judge properly. I think he'd hold up as one of the more dangerous members of the Konoha 11.

[tyckspoon]

Also, I love the "it's not chakra, it's glowy blue sweat that's evaporating" bit. Because it totally didn't look like chakra, yeah...

Gai's abilities are total BS. I love him for it, but still BS.

[Thrawn183]

If you accept the movies as semi-fact, Lee can use 5 gates with no real harm, and can even mix in his drunken boxing.

I'd say Lee has at least as much potential as Gai. If not more. He just has a more linear progression to his ability.

This I can't agree with. Lee can't use ninjutsu.

[KnightDisciple]

This I can't agree with. Lee can't use ninjutsu.

Literally the only ninjutsu Gai has used is turtle summoning, at least that we've seen.

I highly doubt turtles are a key part of his combat strategy.

Besides, that means Lee can concentrate even more on Taijutsu!

[Silver2195]

And isn't the riddle who Kisame saw as 4th Kage finally solved? But then, why was he so surprised Madara is in Akatsuki?

He wasn't that surprised. He just didn't expect Madara to pose as an idiot like Tobi.

[Trixie]

Lee ended up opening 5 in his fight with Gaara. That alone wrecked him pretty bad.

Gai's opened up to 7 Gates with no adverse affects.

In my mind, this means it takes a lot of time and training to be able to open those gates without wrecking your body, even putting aside the death sentence of the 8th gate.

Um, I re-checked and Kakashi says he can open gates, too.

So, if you can tech that skill to talent-less Lee, why you need Tailed Beasts at all? Anyone who can open a 7th gate can equal a Host, anyone who can open 8th can effortlessly kill a host if needed. Get some prodigies and you won't need unreliable beasties at all.

[Silverraptor]

I was kinda on the disbelief side when he said it was just blue sweat evaporating.

On the other side, Kisame justed wanted to live in a world of truth? Yet the plan involves the entire world living in a lie of peace? Talk about being a hypocrite.

[Drolyt]

Um, I re-checked and Kakashi says he can open gates, too.

So, if you can tech that skill to talent-less Lee, why you need Tailed Beasts at all? Anyone who can open a 7th gate can equal a Host, anyone who can open 8th can effortlessly kill a host if needed. Get some prodigies and you won't need unreliable beasties at all.

Opening the 8th Gate kills you. An average Shinobi opening the 8th Gate becomes as strong as a Kage, not as strong as a Bijuu. Sure someone like Gai could probably take on the Nine Tails by opening the 8th Gate, but Gai is special and it would kill him, leaving him about as well of as the 4th in that department.

[Revanmal]

Um, I re-checked and Kakashi says he can open gates, too.

So, if you can tech that skill to talent-less Lee, why you need Tailed Beasts at all? Anyone who can open a 7th gate can equal a Host, anyone who can open 8th can effortlessly kill a host if needed. Get some prodigies and you won't need unreliable beasties at all.

Lee isn't talentless. It's just that his talent isn't some bloodline or family technique. It isn't even taijutsu. Gai himself says it: Lee is a genius of hard work. Meaning he tries harder than anyone, all the time, and still achieves great strength even without some genetic predisposition or special ability. Considering the only three people we've seen unlock the gates are Lee, Gai, and Kakashi, the latter two being considered some of the best ninja of their generation, I think it says something that a genin can unlock those same skills.

Of course he's not Sasuke or a Jinchuuriki, what with the Haxingan and the bijuu, but besides those things, I doubt anyone his age could beat him.

I was kinda on the disbelief side when he said it was just blue sweat evaporating.

On the other side, Kisame justed wanted to live in a world of truth? Yet the plan involves the entire world living in a lie of peace? Talk about being a hypocrite.

Madara probably just lied to him. "Oh yeah, with my plan I'll totally make everyone see the truth. Just do what I say and all shall be revealed."

[Kato]

On the other side, Kisame justed wanted to live in a world of truth? Yet the plan involves the entire world living in a lie of peace? Talk about being a hypocrite.

I don't want to start any philosophical discussions here, but this largely depends on your definition of peace. 'Hypnotizing everyone into being friendly and cuddly with each other' sounds much better than... uh... let's just say many other crazy plans to pacify the world. It's not that I really like it, but you can't say he's lying about it, can you? It's like... putting everony on drugs to lower their aggressions, or so

Anyway, I liked the chapter, for all the ridiculousness happening and for Kisame getting some background before he dies.

[Prime32]

Um, I re-checked and Kakashi says he can open gates, too.

He's only been seen to open one though.

[VanBuren]

He's only been seen to open one though.

Wasn't that an anime-only scene anyway?

[Prime32]

Wasn't that an anime-only scene anyway?

Pretty sure it was in the manga, though it may not have been as clear what he was doing.

The scene where he was holding onto a cliff with the fingertips of one hand and losing his grip, right?

[VanBuren]

Pretty sure it was in the manga, though it may not have been as clear what he was doing.

The scene where he was holding onto a cliff with the fingertips of one hand and losing his grip, right?

Yeah, but I don't remember the manga explicitly showing him doing the gate thing. Meh, whatever. Kakashi can do it, which is what matters.

[AgentofOdd]

So, if you can tech that skill to talent-less Lee, why you need Tailed Beasts at all? Anyone who can open a 7th gate can equal a Host, anyone who can open 8th can effortlessly kill a host if needed. Get some prodigies and you won't need unreliable beasties at all.

Because until recently, the ninjas were in a perpetual state of war where people were so desperate they used nearly any means necessary to gain an advantage, no matter how risky. And it's not like having a tailed host was a small advantage, or anything. Such people could wipe out all but the most talented ninjas.

Also, what evidence do we have any anyone with the 7th gate open will automatically defeat a tailed beast? Especially since we do have evidence that not all hosts are made equal.

[VanBuren]

Because until recently, the ninjas were in a perpetual state of war where people were so desperate they used nearly any means necessary to gain an advantage, no matter how risky. And it's not like having a tailed host was a small advantage, or anything. Such people could wipe out all but the most talented ninjas.

Also, what evidence do we have any anyone with the 7th gate open will automatically defeat a tailed beast? Especially since we do have evidence that not all hosts are made equal.

Like the Shukaku compared to the Fox?

[Drolyt]

I still think it is more that Gai (and Lee) are special. They have undergone immense training to learn to use the gates safely and effectively. Even using the higher gates seems to be difficult (Kakashi, a genius, apparently knows how to open the first gate, which would still be useful for an average Ninja, but no so much fighting Bijuu or Kages, but only Gai and Lee are known to be able to open the higher gates and had to train like crazy to do so), and given the dangers it isn't like they are an easy path to power. Besides all that the boost gained from the gates is relative to the user. Gai is one of the strongest Ninja in Konoha without using the gates, so the boost he gets is going to be better than what, say, an average Chuunin would get. With the gates Gai the only Konoha Ninja stronger than him are the Kages, the Sannin, and Kakashi. I don't think that the average Ninja could pull that off, gates or no.

Edit: All told the Bijuu seem to be a much better source of "easy, if dangerous" power than teaching people to use the gates.