Drowtales: The Info Dump

[HandofShadows]

Grabbing Ariel's hair in a fight worked about as well as I thought it would. I thought she handled winning rather well and tried to defuse the situation.

[Vinyadan]

And now, to the real sparring!

[Vinyadan]

Let's see if things can get started after 13 pages of cameos... Sometimes, I think about how the comic would look without cameos, and it would be much better. Than I realize that without cameos there would be no comic.

[eschmenk]

I don't understand why you have been complaining about the cameos in this chapter. IMO, they have been less of a problem than they often are. I don't think Kern would have done things much differently in this chapter even if people weren't paying for the cameos. He had things that he wanted to show, so he used the cameo characters to show some of them. He probably would have created other characters and used them if he didn't have the cameo characters to use.

[Vinyadan]

To me, it all looks like a big loss of time. A ton of throwaway characters, each of which must clutter the scene by saying something. The little guy giving the weapon to Ariel is an example. He wasn't necessary; plus, he doesn't look very smart by giving Ariel the same weapon she used as a kid.
Thanks to the cameos, we now know that some people are happy with Ariel, and others aren't. But we already knew that! Wasn't that the point of having a number of episodes in which Ariel interacted with other soldiers? And we already knew that House Suube is unhappy with Ariel and that Koil doesn't care. What we now have learnt is that some grunt isn't happy with Quain herself and the Valifisation of the clan. But that didn't need such a show to be shown. Orange Girl being alone also doesn't really give a dimension of what is going on: she looks more like an oddball than the representative of a current of Sarg discontent.
In other words, my problem is the use of... did I just count 15? identified characters, to have an action which could be done better by 4-5 + Ariel & Da Bosses.

Yes, it is going better than usual, because the story has until now moved in a rather linear fashion. But more complicated plotlines help hide the lack of role for the cameos, while the simple way in which this one is handled bores me. No doubt, it is better than the cluster in which the chapters in Felde turned: awesome for all that is shown and happens, but also utterly cluttered and chaotic.

So, the short and honest answer is: "Because these last 13 pages bored me".

[eschmenk]

So, the short and honest answer is: "Because these last 13 pages bored me".

Why wouldn't the same 13 pages have bored you even if they didn't have cameo characters in them?

We still would have had the orange girl. She just wouldn't have been a cameo character. We would have still had characters saying many of the same things the cameo characters said. They just wouldn't have been cameo characters. Granted, we probably wouldn't have had the weird person sitting on top of a pole and there would have been a few other minor differences, but in general terms, it would have been pretty much the same.

Kern reigned in the cameos a couple of chapters ago and he's not letting the people who are paying for them to make decisions that he doesn't want anymore. That means any blame must fall on Kern's shoulders, not the cameos. Kern is the one who wanted to build slowly up to the main sparring match by showing us stuff that we didn't really need to have shown to us. The cameos aren't to blame for that.

IMO, your logic is based on the false premise that things would be significantly different if not for the cameos. That was the point of my previous comment. Your response ignored that and merely repeated what you had said before.

[Asmodean_]

Is it a sin that I'm playing a drow character but haven't read this yet?

[eschmenk]

Is it a sin that I'm playing a drow character but haven't read this yet?

No. It's not really a gaming comic. You might be surprised at how different it is from what you know.

[Asmodean_]

No. It's not really a gaming comic. You might be surprised at how different it is from what you know.

TBH I don't know much. I'll give it a look though.

[Vinyadan]

Why wouldn't the same 13 pages have bored you even if they didn't have cameo characters in them?
[...]
IMO, your logic is based on the false premise that things would be significantly different if not for the cameos. That was the point of my previous comment. Your response ignored that and merely repeated what you had said before.

Actually, I thought that the implied answer was readable: 15 characters = more pages; the characters need to speak = broken action. Orange only takes 5 pages.

Yes, I think things would be different if it weren't for random and not very meaningful characters cluttering the screen and needing to speak. The storytelling would be more compelling and I wouldn't be bored. And I can't imagine cameos being more discrete.

Also, I don't want to look like a GN, but this is something I often see: it's rein in, not reign in. The thing reined in is compared to a restrained horse. It's actually kind of fascinating, because reins are used to direct the horse, and reigning partly means direct or govern. To give free rein also often is written as "free reign" for similar reasons.

[eschmenk]

Actually, I thought that the implied answer was readable: 15 characters = more pages; the characters need to speak = broken action. Orange only takes 5 pages.

Yes, I think things would be different if it weren't for random and not very meaningful characters cluttering the screen and needing to speak. The storytelling would be more compelling and I wouldn't be bored. And I can't imagine cameos being more discrete.

OK, I think we will have to agree to disagree on what it would have been like if not for cameos. IMO, Kern sometimes did even worse than that before there were any cameos, so I'm more inclined to blame Kern. Also Kern justified the talking in those pages for storytelling reasons, so I'm sure much of it would have happened anyway. I admit that things might have been shortened a little if not for the cameos, but I would still expect a minimum of 10 pages, and I could imagine it being even worse than it was (maybe 15 pages) if not for the cameos.

Also, I don't want to look like a GN, but this is something I often see: it's rein in, not reign in. The thing reined in is compared to a restrained horse. It's actually kind of fascinating, because reins are used to direct the horse, and reigning partly means direct or govern. To give free rein also often is written as "free reign" for similar reasons.

The sad thing is that I actually did think about it, but got it backwards anyway.

[HandofShadows]

TBH I don't know much. I'll give it a look though.

The drow in this story are not much like those you find in a D&D game. Magic is totally different and the culture is very different other than females being the stronger/dominate gender. (Hi there Quain!) In general these drow are closer (But not the same) to humans in thinking and emotions than the drow in D&D are.

[Vinyadan]

"I love being thrashed by my mummy, it's the only time we do something together!"

[Asmodean_]

The drow in this story are not much like those you find in a D&D game. Magic is totally different and the culture is very different other than females being the stronger/dominate gender. (Hi there Quain!) In general these drow are closer (But not the same) to humans in thinking and emotions than the drow in D&D are.

I've had a look at a few random pages. "EAT CAKE" sealed the deal for me. Count me a fan.

[HandofShadows]

Spoiler

Show

Kern knows how to twist the screws when he wants. DemonNaal is on the run and she stumbles on her mom Waes. Will one of them recognize the other? Probably not. :(

[Vinyadan]

An exceptionally coherent speech from a mentally ill person, although its sanity may need to be tested.

[HandofShadows]

Zala actually seems to be sane still. The poison seems to be interfering with her memory and nervous system rather than driving her crazy.

[Vinyadan]

Quain is wondering, "do I have something on my face?"

[gooddragon1]

Quain is wondering, "do I have something on my face?"

Or perhaps something in her teeth?

[HandofShadows]

Spoiler

Show

Aaaand a cut to Diva. She has always been my favorite character. I always thought she was a better person than how she appeared to act and this goes a long way to proving I was right. Even after trying to kill her, Diva honestly still loves her children.

[Vinyadan]

And Diva tries to try! Having the reputation of a drunkard probably helps avoiding being called crazy.

[Vinyadan]

Ladies and gentlemen, it's on. The second confrontation I've been waiting for the whole comic, and it looks like anything could happen.

[eschmenk]

Even after trying to kill her, Diva honestly still loves her children.

Apparently not one of them, based on the voiceover.

To me it seems completely nonsensical that Snady would allow herself to be trapped in her own home so easily.

[CWater]

This summoner.. She has a crown like some Zala's kids, but in Snads colour. Could Snad have made other kids than Kalki?

[eschmenk]

This summoner.. She has a crown like some Zala's kids, but in Snads colour. Could Snad have made other kids than Kalki?

Someone in the forum there identified her as Nehleanee Vel'Sharen, one of Zala'ess's children and a cameo.

[CWater]

Someone in the forum there identified her as Nehleanee Vel'Sharen, one of Zala'ess's children and a cameo.

Ah, ok. Her colours are misleading.

[eschmenk]

Ah, ok. Her colours are misleading.

I think they show where her loyalty is. She's not pretending to loyal to Zala'ess anymore.

Snady doesn't care about bloodlines. Snady handpicked girls that she liked and basically adopted them and it wouldn't matter to her that Nehleanee isn't really her daughter.

[HandofShadows]

Fixed that

"Snady doesn't care about bloodlines. Snady handpicked girls that she that she thought she could use and basically brainwashed them and it wouldn't matter to her that Nehleanee was killed so long as it advanced her plans."

[Vinyadan]

Purple was Diva's and the Sharen's colour. It probably isn't strange to see it used even in other houses than Snadhya's. The girl also was in Zala's "hovel" during the negotiations, although she only had one stone on her diadem (as well as braids). I guess Snadhya threw her a bone. http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10416
According to the Wiki, she actually is Zala's granddaughter, which means that 1. Some of Zala's descendants actually managed to reproduce (maybe before the tainting in Orthobbae?) and 2. She is Suna's niece.

[HandofShadows]

Good

Spoiler

Show

Icyhot! Snads seems to have lost this round big time. Loosing the 3 empath sisters is huge loss for her as she can't replace them. And with them gone, the soldiers down below wil regain their bearings and go to town.