Drowtales: The Info Dump

[HandofShadows]

We don't know if Princess Naal can be heard normally, maybe only Keil and the readers can "hear" her as we know the other Princes can't be heard by others. But we DO know the Princes and the Forum Blob can interact with matter in a normal way when they want to. Heck they have even physically fought drow and one of them cut one of the Princes head's off. (Not that it caused him much of a problem) Kern's line sounds like he being an unreliable narrator since we can see on this very page what he said was wrong. That also throws some heavy shade on the rest of the statment "As to her appearance, those demons take the one they think they have."

Frankly I don't even think the statement about having demons living inside Keil is right either. If the forum blob "lived" inside Keil then we would not have been cut off from the story on page 153. I think Kern is covering up something. Naalblob bumped into something inside Keil and got swirly eyed. So what it? I think Keil might have some kind of gate inside her that she does not know about. Not a demon summoning gate, maybe something new her mother came up with. We have seen gates carved into people before.

[eschmenk]

"It's not a true body, they can't really pick up things or talk". No, they can just grab people and say things.

One possible (but probably weak) idea is that the demon is too stupid to know that it can't do those things. Notice that "Enough!" was inside a thought bubble, not a speech bubble. Even if Shashanna couldn't feel its hands, that wouldn't mean that the demon couldn't try to grab Shashanna arm. Maybe the artwork depicted the instant the demon tried to grab her or maybe the demon kept trying repeatedly?

Another thing to keep in mind is that Shashanna is basically part demon, just like Kiel. She somehow took over a demon and made it part of her. That seems to give Shashanna (and Kiel) a greater ability to interact with friend demons than people normally have. Maybe that works in reverse, too? It could be that the Naal demon is grabbing Shanna via the demonic part of her and Shashanna is hearing "Enough" via the demonic part of her. The Naal demon might not have been able to grab and yell at someone like Nau, for example. So basically, people like Kiel and Shashanna and some of the Nids are probably exceptions to the rules about interactions. I think this is the more likely explanation.

And the stoic, elaborated Naal we knew from her childhood is definitely turned into a speech impaired, no agency demon who believes to be her? Argh.

Well, the real Naal is dead, so it's not as if we could have expected much more than what we got. We could still hope that Kern gives the new form of the demon some intelligence and have Kiel listen to it. I'm not going to get my hopes up , but it would be nice if it happened. But no, we were never going to get the Beld girl back.

But we DO know the Princes and the Forum Blob can interact with matter in a normal way when they want to.

We do?

Heck they have even physically fought drow and one of them cut one of the Princes head's off. (Not that it caused him much of a problem)

I don't remember them fighting any Drow. Did they? Were they part demon, like Kiel?

If one them cut one cut another's head off, that's not definitely not interacting with normal matter. The other one wouldn't have a real physical head to cut off. That's why cutting off the head wouldn't matter; it's not a real head.

Kern's line sounds like he being an unreliable narrator since we can see on this very page what he said was wrong.

Do you still think so? Was there anything I didn't explain above?

That also throws some heavy shade on the rest of the statment "As to her appearance, those demons take the one they think they have."

"Word of God" is generally considered to be canon. I think the stuff that you are coming up with that's inconsistent with that needs to be considered to be your own personal headcanon.

Frankly I don't even think the statement about having demons living inside Keil is right either. If the forum blob "lived" inside Keil then we would not have been cut off from the story on page 153.

People leave the places where they live. People live in a home, but they leave it to go to work, etc. I think the forum blob had left its home inside Kiel and was captured by Shashanna. Even if it hadn't, why couldn't Shashanna have destroyed it while it remained inside Kiel?

[HandofShadows]

Shashana is sure as heck reacting like a person who has had their arm grabbed. Naal's hands are not passing through her arm like it they would if they could not touch her. She IS being grabbed.

And here http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=9171 we have a Princess knocking someone down and holding them. Before getting her head chopped off of course. Next page he stomps on her head. This shows a very clear interaction with normal matter. If the Forum Blob and Princes could NOT interact with normal matter, you wouldn't be able to cut off their heads with a plain old metal sword or grab and knock down people. Page before we see the Forum Blob cover Keil like a shield to protecter her from fire.

As I stated before there is evidence that the Forum Blob, Princes and now Naal we see are projections, avatars. The the "real" person is someplace else (The Forum Blob and Princes in this reality, Naal not sure yet. She SHOULD stay in the DT reality. (Hope she does.)). controling that avatar. That does NOT mean that Forum Blob and Princes cannot interact with anything since I clearly have shown the can and do. It ONLY means the real person mind/body is someplace else. Your reading way to much into the term "real".

As for Word of God being canon, I point out the Lying Creator. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LyingCreator

[eschmenk]

Shashana is sure as heck reacting like a person who has had their arm grabbed. Naal's hands are not passing through her arm like it they would if they could not touch her. She IS being grabbed.

Yeah, admittedly my original idea wasn't that great. Unfortunately, I don't think you saw my better explanation that I edited in. (Unfortunately, we aren't supposed to double-post, so I have to edit the post if I think of something later on. I don't think yours had posted yet.)

Another thing to keep in mind is that Shashanna is basically part demon, just like Kiel. She somehow took over a demon and made it part of her. That seems to give Shashanna (and Kiel) a greater ability to interact with friend demons than people normally have. Maybe that works in reverse, too? It could be that the Naal demon is grabbing Shanna via the demonic part of her and Shashanna is hearing "Enough" via the demonic part of her. The Naal demon might not have been able to grab and yell at someone like Nau, for example. So basically, people like Kiel and Shashanna and some of the Nids are probably exceptions to the rules about interactions. I think this is the more likely explanation.

I think that's it. They actually can interact with people like Shashanna and Kiel and perhaps other demons, but not with normal non-demonic material. I think Crystal could have found where Kiel was after she killed the fake Diva because the friend demons told the demon inside of Crystal, which is in the back of her mind, so Crystal then knew indirectly.

And here http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=9171 we have a Princess knocking someone down and holding them. Before getting her head chopped off of course. Next page he stomps on her head. This shows a very clear interaction with normal matter. If the Forum Blob and Princes could NOT interact with normal matter, you wouldn't be able to cut off their heads with a plain old metal sword or grab and knock down people. Page before we see the Forum Blob cover Keil like a shield to protecter her from fire.

That page is a good example of why I hate the friend demons. As far as I can tell, the friend demons are just screwing around and pretending to be fighting without actually doing anything. The certainly don't seem to be trying to help in any serious way. Is the one friend demon actually holding the guy down? How did it get its head get cut off? I don't even see the swords move! Then just a couple of pages later, Kern hints at the bottom of the page that maybe the friend demons can communicate with Kiel. If it's already been established that they can interact with the real world, why would that even be a question? OTOH, Nirnaya did stomp her foot, and unless she just did it in frustration, it's hard to think of a good reason for her to do it other than stomping on the demon's head. But why would she expect that to work? So maybe it was just frustration? I can see how you could interpret it the way you did. To me, no way makes sense, though.

As for Word of God being canon, I point out the Lying Creator. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LyingCreator

I think it would be an incredible long shot for that to apply in this case. It would be a pretty bad thing for Kern to do. He withholds stuff and sometimes teases, but I don't think he outright lies. He also communicates poorly, too. Sometimes he doesn't think things through very well and he winds up retconning things. (The first few chapters have been replaced and I think there was a least 3 versions of Chapter 1.) It could be that allowing the friend demons to interact with normal material is something that Kern retconned out, even if that's the correct way to interpret the Chapter 41 stuff?

[Vinyadan]

Kern generally hasn't been that trustworthy when giving info outside the comic. I remember a list of Chel's Top Old Women that included drows but excluded some some ancient elves. Between remakes, daydream and other stuff the whole story has had so many different versions that the only thing that really matters is what is currently shown in the main comic and, maybe, a couple of side stories (Longest Wait). I don't think even the Wiki is reliable.

[JavaScribe]

And here http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=9171 we have a Princess knocking someone down and holding them. Before getting her head chopped off of course. Next page he stomps on her head. This shows a very clear interaction with normal matter. If the Forum Blob and Princes could NOT interact with normal matter, you wouldn't be able to cut off their heads with a plain old metal sword or grab and knock down people. Page before we see the Forum Blob cover Keil like a shield to protecter her from fire.

At one point, it was mentioned that some demons can manifest physically in the same way summons do. The explanation wasn't exactly detailed though, and Kern has outright said that he is never going to fully explain how Kiel's powers work.

[eschmenk]

At one point, it was mentioned that some demons can manifest physically in the same way summons do. The explanation wasn't exactly detailed though, and Kern has outright said that he is never going to fully explain how Kiel's powers work.

IIRC, I had the impression the Kern was trying to have his cake and eat it too in Chapter 41. Basically, he was trying to appeal to readers who wanted a serious story, and those who wanted silliness, by giving the readers both and making it impossible to know which was right. IMO, the result was a big mess. I think the refusing to explain how Kiel's powers work is the same sort of thing. He wants to have rules for his world, but he doesn't want Kiel to need to obey those rules.

I found out about Drowtales (before the timeskip) when someone mentioned, in a discussion about another comic, how it was impossible to know if Kiel was crazy and talking to imaginary people, or if she really could sense the readers. I wish things would have remained like that. I wish Kiel had remained much more like she was then.

Speaking of retcons, back then Kiel would talk to a far corner of the room, rather than to any demons living inside of her.

I need to stop spending so much time talking about this.

[Vinyadan]

This feels a lot like back in the nineties, I don't know why.

Also, today Kern explains some of the inconsistencies but gives no coherent reason for them.

[HandofShadows]

I think I have a possible reason.

The Forum Blob/Princes/Naal are mana based. Mana can and does go through most materials, but it can also interact with thm. We see the Princes eating ice cream, holding spoons and one holding a dish (far right) on this page http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=9966. We see Naal on the current page have her arm inside of Keil's, but she is able to help pull Nau up. Look at the top of her head on these panels. Notice that Naal's "crown" fades away when she is pulling but returns a short time later. It would seem Naal expended energy to help pull Nau up. If she expended enough energy Naal' "body" would become like a blob and could even fade away until the mana level built back up. I think the Forum Blob, Princes (They are back in the last pannel) and Naal passivly absorb man from the environment much like all Fae creaturs do. If you hit them with mana based attacks they seem to be able to absorbe that as well.

[eschmenk]

This feels a lot like back in the nineties, I don't know why.

And you know, like, crystals have like, energy, so you should, like, surround yourself with them. Pyramids were supposed to have energy, too. Those were New Age beliefs that were somewhat popular in the 1980s. People still sell energy crystals, so it hasn't completely died out. Maybe Kern talking about interacting with energy reminded you of that?

I think we have confirmation that the friend demons can not interact with normal Drow like they seemed to be doing back when Kiel killed the fake Diva. That was either them just faking it or it's been reconned since. Nau can't touch Naal or be touched by her, at least not until the next retcon. Swirly-eyed people are still an exception, though. Naal helped Kiel lift Nau by interacting with Kiel, not Nau. She was helping Kiel squeeze with her fingers and pull with her arm. If Kiel's grip had been strong enough, Naal could have just grabbed hold of Kiel's arm and pulled. Or she could have grabbed hold of Kiel's feet so Kiel could use both arms. She couldn't grab Nau, though.

Another welcome difference between previous chapters and the present: At least the friend demons aren't trying to sexually molest Shashanna!

I love how Nau and Kiel are just ignoring Shashanna, who was attacking them a moment ago, though. Shashanna doesn't seem to have any more sense then Nau or Kiel, either. Yes, sure, Shashanna, I'm sure they be happy to stick around and let you perform any sort of experiments on them after what you just tried to do. Hey maybe Shashanna can test how long Kiel could hold on to Nau with and without Naaldemon's help. I'm not sure how she could run the test more than once, though.

To be fair, Shashanna doesn't know that the elevator will be on its way up. I can't blame her for thinking that it would be hard for Nau and Kiel to leave.

I think I have a possible reason.

The Forum Blob/Princes/Naal are mana based. Mana can and does go through most materials, but it can also interact with thm. We see the Princes eating ice cream, holding spoons and one holding a dish (far right) on this page http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=9966.

Which is impossible according to what Kern is saying and what happened on the current page. Kern is simply being inconsistent.

[Vinyadan]

What the heck.

[HandofShadows]

Aaaand we have yet another demonstration of why Diva never stepped down despite wanting very much to do so. All her kids would have royaly *^%*$ Chell sideways and even then they still have managed to do it.

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That was not an immediate kill shot on Shashana. It's too low to have hit her heart, most likely it was the liver or stomach. It may well kill her, but not just immediatly. I do NOT think that Shas will be a nearly as restrained with Silice as she was with Keil and company. She was using minimum force to try and kill them but she won't now.

Poor Diva, Shas is one of the few people that would recognize her in her current form and I think Shas DID recognizer and it gave the Ice <BEEP> the opening. Also I don't think Diva thought Shas was still alive. She looks very surprised on this page.

About Naal and the Princes, suntiger745 and Zenanii made some VERY good points on pg3 of the forum for pg 159 of the story.

[eschmenk]

Of course this had to happen. There wasn't any way Kern was going to allow Shashanna to figure out how those friend demons work, although it would have been hilarious to watch Shashanna get incredibly frustrated and say thing like, "But this is just stupid! It doesn't make any sense at all!"

Shashanna, you really should have been paying some attention to what was going on outside your tower. It would have been very helpful to know if the person visiting you is a stupid, murderous lunatic or not. I guess you understand that now. To be fair though, Snady didn't want her to know what was going on and Kahless would have made it difficult and dangerous to try to work around Snady.

I was wondering how Fame was with Sil'lice, but I see that she's a prisoner. Still, it's very surprising that she's alive if you ignore meta logic. Following any in-story logic she almost certainly should be dead if she didn't manage to escape from Sil'lice. IIRC, there was another Vloz with Fame. I assume he's dead.

Diva: What a waste of what could have been a very interesting character.

About Naal and the Princes, suntiger745 and Zenanii made some VERY good points on pg3 of the forum for pg 159 of the story.

Actually, I don't think they remember things quite right. It was actually in the comic. But yes, it turns out Kern actually did cover his ass by having Kiel say that the area under Orthorbbae contains phlebotinum.

So, anyway, Naaldemon and friend demons are incorporeal as Kern has been saying. However, there is some phlebotinum under Orthorbbae that can be used to turn them corporal, as nonsensical as that is.

[HandofShadows]

It's not the location that gave Keil the ability to pull out the Princes. It was who/what was at that location. Naal. You know Naal, the one with Shadow Powers that we have seen he mom used to kill people with because she can make them solid?

[eschmenk]

...Shadow Powers that we have seen he mom used to kill people with because she can make them solid?

We did? I can remember Naal and her mother disappearing and reappearing, however I don't remember them doing it to anyone else, but I wouldn't be surprised if I forgot. It would be a handy way to deal with any intruders -- make them disappear, then reappear outside. The Beld clan's location would make that particularly effective. Was it something like that?

So I guess the idea is that the glutton demon somehow inherited that ability from Naal and was just randomly casting the spell around it and occasionally hit a friend demon if one were nearby? No wonder Kiel blamed it on the location.

To me, that still doesn't make much sense. Naal's and her mother's ability involved becoming invisible and diffuse. It seemed less like the mass of their bodies were completely gone and more like they diffused into the surroundings then moved and reformed elsewhere. There was an intermediate smoke-like state at the beginning and the end. Whatever happened to the friend demons seems different. It doesn't seem to affect their appearance at all. For whatever reason, Nau was able to see Naaldemon; he just couldn't touch her. Likewise, whatever happened under Orthorbbae was about how solid they were; their appearance and shape and location didn't change, at least not to us. Perhaps the biggest difference is that there wasn't a body to begin with that could form somewhere else. It's hard to see how whatever happened with the the friend demons could be connected to Naal's ability, or what I remember of it, anyway. I guess something at that location (even the glutton) could have warped Naal's abilities so they did something different than they used to, but at that point you may as well as assume some discarded malfunctioning phlebotinum was doing it.

Or maybe you are remembering that Naal's mother killed someone with an ability that's different from the ability that I'm remember Naal and her mother using?

[Vinyadan]

Waes killed a bunch of servants and a crazy noble by perforating them, while Naal engulfed Ariel when they were near Senekha, although I have no idea of how that worked. It was the only time we saw her use her power, I believe.

http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=688
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10765
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10766
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=4227

There also was a page in the side stories talking about Waes becoming increasingly aggressive, which must have been a headache for other clans who didn't want their Vals to mysteriously disappear.

I do not expect a reason to ever be given, but it would make some sense if this had to do with shadow sorcery (which would mean that Sashana was wrong).

[HandofShadows]

Here's one of Waes's "shadows" blocking a sword hit and puching holes in the person wielding the sword. They can be very solid when she want's them to be.
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10765 Here is one were she blocks some of the poison. http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10815 And way back at the start of the series shes mass killing slaves. http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=4227 Waes's power to make her shadows solid is well established and Naal has the same power as her mother.

Darn. Ninja'ed

[Vinyadan]

Here's one of Waes's "shadows" blocking a sword hit and puching holes in the person wielding the sword. They can be very solid when she want's them to be.
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10765 Here is one were she blocks some of the poison. http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10815 And way back at the start of the series shes mass killing slaves. http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=4227 Waes's power to make her shadows solid is well established and Naal has the same power as her mother.

Darn. Ninja'ed

"Laeleed" :P

[eschmenk]

Waes killed a bunch of servants and a crazy noble by perforating them, while Naal engulfed Ariel when they were near Senekha, although I have no idea of how that worked. It was the only time we saw her use her power, I believe.

http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=688
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10765
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10766
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=4227

Well, yes, but none of those examples match what HandofShadows said. I even said that I could remember Naal doing that and it was specifically your first link that I was talking about! But when did Waes do what HandofShadows said she did?

[eschmenk]

Waes killed a bunch of servants and a crazy noble by perforating them, while Naal engulfed Ariel when they were near Senekha, although I have no idea of how that worked. It was the only time we saw her use her power, I believe.

http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=688
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10765
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10766
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=4227

Well, yes, but none of those examples match what HandofShadows said. I even said that I could remember Naal doing that and it was specifically your first link that I was talking about! But when did Waes do what HandofShadows said she did?

Here's one of Waes's "shadows" blocking a sword hit and puching holes in the person wielding the sword. They can be very solid when she want's them to be.
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10765 Here is one were she blocks some of the poison. http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10815 And way back at the start of the series shes mass killing slaves. http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=4227 Waes's power to make her shadows solid is well established and Naal has the same power as her mother.

Darn. Ninja'ed

Nope! None of those example count. That's not what you claimed Waes could do. In those cases, her magic is directly affecting her. The other person is being killed only indirectly by the magic, when they get speared by the extensions of Waes's own body, for example.

Just to be clear, here is your comment again:

It's not the location that gave Keil the ability to pull out the Princes. It was who/what was at that location. Naal. You know Naal, the one with Shadow Powers that we have seen he mom used to kill people with because she can make them solid?

So first you are rude and sarcastic, and now it turns out that you can't even provide any examples where she kills a person by making them solid?

[HandofShadows]

So first you are rude and sarcastic, and now it turns out that you can't even provide any examples where she kills a person by making them solid?

Waes is punching holes THROUGH PEOPLE with her shadow powers and you are claiming Waes can't make her shadows solid? Are you that unable to accept that you are wrong that you ignore mutipule examples of from both Vinyadan and myself?

[eschmenk]

Waes is punching holes THROUGH PEOPLE with her shadow powers and you are claiming Waes can't make her shadows solid? Are you that unable to accept that you are wrong that you ignore mutipule examples of from both Vinyadan and myself?

No. I'm saying that Waes didn't make the other person solid! That's your claim!!! A least it had better be your claim, or your original argument is even more stupid than I thought it was! You were arguing that somehow the Naalglutton was making a different demon solid, so that would clearly be a case of one person making another person solid. What Waes did would only be relevant if it was a matter of her making someone else solid. That's what you had better have meant by "making them solid!"

Now you are acting as if you had claimed that she made shadows solid. That's a new one! Your comment didn't even mention shadows! The closest it came to doing so was talking about shadow powers, which presumably had something to do with making the other person solid (something like the powers she can use on herself), or at least that's the best guess given what you wrote. Obviously you can't make magical powers solid, so that couldn't have been what you meant by "making them solid." And since you didn't even mention any shadows, that couldn't be what you meant by "making them solid." That leaves only making other people solid as the only reasonable interpretation.

And I suggest you tone things down a little. Your sarcasm was rude and uncalled for. A few days ago I stopped talking with you for a short while because you got upset and went way overboard and made ridiculous statements. I hate to have to do that again.

And that wasn't the only problem! In addition to being rude and sarcastic earlier, now you've added and additional false accusation that I'm unwilling to accept that Waes made shadows solid! Let's look at what I said:

So first you are rude and sarcastic, and now it turns out that you can't even provide any examples where she kills a person by making them solid?

Where do I even include the word "shadows?" How can you misstate that as saying that I was unwilling to accept anything to do with shadows?

Now, let's got back to my original statement that your (and Vinyadan's) examples were supposed to satisfy:

We did? I can remember Naal and her mother disappearing and reappearing, however I don't remember them doing it to anyone else, but I wouldn't be surprised if I forgot.

Gee do I talk about shadows there or do I talk about someone else? I think the way to read that is pretty obvious. What about the intruder I talk about immediately afterward? Did you really think the intruder who was going to fall to his death was just a shadow, not another person? It's mind-boggling that you could misinterpret that as talking about shadows, rather than people. Even if I had misinterpreted what you wrote or you wrote something you didn't mean to say, there isn't any excuse for you to not have realized that happened as soon as you saw my response. Instead, you went ahead and gave examples, which were supposedly in response to what I asked about, but your examples were really about something else. If you don't have any examples of what I asked for, then you should have just said so and told me that you didn't mean to say what you said!

No one ever asked about Waes killing anyone with her own shadows. Why did you provide any examples of her apparently doing something like that?

So basically, you wrote an nasty. sarcastic comment that didn't even say what you meant to say, then when I responded politely with an easy to understand reply, you bizarrely misinterpreted my reply and posted some irrelevant examples, then when I point out that they weren't relevant to what I had asked about, you misstated what I was saying and threw in another accusation for good measure. Wow!

[Vinyadan]

New comic.

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Did she just throw the demons inside Sillice's brain? And Nau is learning the power of being inconspicuous. He's been surprisingly efficient at suicidally jumping people out of his league. Anyway, this feels very satisfactory to me.

[HandofShadows]

New comic.

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Did she just throw the demons inside Sillice's brain? And Nau is learning the power of being inconspicuous. He's been surprisingly efficient at suicidally jumping people out of his league. Anyway, this feels very satisfactory to me.

What Da Flark?

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Clearly Silice went up there to kill Sha. While I am not a fan of Sha by any means, this is totally uncalled for. Especially since killing Sha might end up killing a lot of the original cast as the taint consumed them.

As for the Forum Blob being shoved into Silice I have no idea how this will turn out. Getting "connected" to the forum "demons" could very well break Silices mind. I mean just look at the Drowtales Forum members. I'm not 100% that the Forum Blob can even taint anyone like normal demons can. ON the otehr hand I don't think the Forum Blob will take Silice over. That would be way to much 4th wall breaking. I might say Naal could take over Silice or Sha but she had made it clear she's not into eating people.

Kern's comment on this page seems to point to a full on fight breaking out because of what Nau has done. Given that Sha is badly wounded I don't see it going well for Keil and Company. The Princes seem to have lost their bodies again and are basically like the Forum Blob now. Naal doesn't seem like she would be all that great in a fight. At best she could provide a distraction.

And Diva what the heck are you doing?!? I had really expected her to do something. I am disappointed.

[eschmenk]

I think Sillice has been acting even more murderously crazy than normal lately. She has reasons to be upset, but perhaps she's been infected, too? If so, maybe the blob will cure her? Yes, that's dumb, but it would be yet another opportunity for Kern to credit the readers for something nonsensical happening in the story. I hope he wouldn't do that.

Some of the comments in the forum suggest that Sillice may have been tainted. I think that's an extreme long shot.

I think it's probably much more likely that Sillice had the equivalent of a mana bomb go off in her face. The Sharen with Sillice will probably not know what to do because they will be surprised that Sillice attacked Shashanna. They certainly gave Nau plenty of time to interfere, anyway.

Diva may have some touching panels where she will wonder, "How did it ever come to this?" Assuming Shashanna recovers or lives long enough, she may identify OldDiva's presence. (Finding Naaldemon inside Kiel may foreshadow that.) Kern might have been tempted to have a bunch of reminiscing, but I think he'll probably forego that for the sake of working toward an ending.

[HandofShadows]

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Welp Sha's dead. I really hope she left her notes about curing the taint someplace. It's a standoff between the two groups with the Forum Blob and Naal keeping the other side at bay. Guess they didn't bring a sealer with them. Like how Siliec's daughter ran through Naal. That was a good touch. Diva has been busier than I thought she was. It seems she did try and tell her kids she was alive and they didn't belive her. And she had actualy been wanting to get to Sha. That explains why Diva tagged along on this party. Diva clearly didn't know her kid was going to go all stabity stab stab on Sha. You know I feel a but sympathtic towards Sha with her final words. To me it seems that she is saying that her Sharess left she took Sha's heart with her. Imagine trying to get the person you love back for 1,000 years.

[eschmenk]

I really hope she left her notes about curing the taint someplace.

I guess the "Ninth book on the ninth row" is the book where she documented which realities she's already tried to hunt for Sharess in? I'm pretty sure she left lots of notes.

Diva has been busier than I thought she was. It seems she did try and tell her kids she was alive and they didn't belive her.

Look at what she said carefully: "No one would have believed me." That indicates that she did not try to convince them because she thought it wouldn't work. ("No one believed me" would have indicated she tried, but failed; "No one would believe me" could be interpreted either way.)

Diva clearly didn't know her kid was going to go all stabity stab stab on Sha.

If she didn't at least know that Sillice might do that, she didn't know Sillice very well, did she? What difference would it have made, anyway? Keep in mind, by her age, she's seen many people die. She's spent the lives of many people. If Diva felt that it was absolutely necessary for her to take over Shashanna's work, she would have spent Shashanna's life to do so. That's just cold hard logic. She wouldn't have lasted long as Empress if she didn't think that way.

You know I feel a but sympathtic towards Sha with her final words. To me it seems that she is saying that her Sharess left she took Sha's heart with her. Imagine trying to get the person you love back for 1,000 years.

Imagine her trying for 1000 years if she didn't!

[HandofShadows]

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Sha's dead, but at least she had some comfort from Diva as she passed. Probably one of the most touching pages in the entire series. Sha was likely the oldest person on the planet and her passing means the loss of untold knowledge. Sil'lice is tainted and can hear the Forum Blob when they are close to her. They seem to be avoiding her now she is awake though. Diva clearly has put Sil'lice on her &%^$#$ list as she doesn't go to give her any comfort and does not seem to even give a damn.

And some things that I don't think have been noticed by the main forum. There are been some color changes going on in this chapter. The Forum Blob at the start of the chapter is it's normal midnight blue with a lighter blue outline. But now, it's a very dark purple with a lighter purple boarder. This seems to have mostly started after Keil and company got to the 9th tower. Possibly some nether energy got mixed in with the "normal" energy that powers the Forum Blob? Also the center of Diva's eyes turned blue when she talking to Sha. No clue as to what it means though.

[eschmenk]

So now what, Kern is going to let the forum members feel like they deserve credit for making Sillice sane? How much pandering is Kern going to do? Even though it would be hokey if Sillice developed empathy for others merely because she's tainted now, at least it could be done without obvious pandering. However, I can't believe that Kern wouldn't make a big deal about the forum blob being the forum blob.

Diva is supposedly limited in what she can do because of her body. Wouldn't it be something if she moved herself a second time, but into Sharess's body this time? That might make Snady have a very bad day. And then Diva could go back to being empress again. Of course, there would probably be a chicken and egg problem in that the current body is probably too weak for the magic required to do something like that again. Oh, well.

Diva doesn't give a ****, and that says a lot considering Sillice was the one still loyal to her. Give her a day or two to get over the whole shasana murder and maybe then she'll start caring.

Or another way to took at it, the only daughter loyal to Diva is a crazy murderous idiot who keeps making terrible choices like that one. Not exactly a great endorsement of Diva's rule.

Will Diva keep her promise to Shashanna? If she's finally sees the truth about Sillice, she might not be eager to return with her. Or maybe she will leave, but would intend to do something later?

Also the center of Diva's eyes turned blue when she talking to Sha. No clue as to what it means though.

I think that might be just an artistic choice. I think it's supposed to look like both light reflecting and shadow mixed together. I think you can see a little bit of it at the edges of her eyes here.

Making the demons more purple might have just been an artistic thing, too. It seem to happen gradually just before Naaldemon was revealed. Maybe Kern or Kite decided that she looked better if her lines were purple, so the other demons became more purple to match what she would look like? IDK.

[CWater]

I have no pity for Sil'lice here.