Relationship Woes and Advice: A Sleepless Fortnight

[Superglucose]

Well I can keep it under the guise of keeping our ratio even. We're 3/3 boys to girls (excluding GM), and I like that balance... but with 1 boy and 1 girl leaving and only 1 boy to replace them...

[Odentin]

Still, for some reason D&D carries with it a certain social stigma that seems to deter women who aren't a least a little nerdy to begin with. I dunno, just my experience...

[Coidzor]

Still... that's asking an investment form her way too early.

Kinda awkward to bring up something from over a year ago now, since I already cleared that bit up, or so I had thought.

[Zeb The Troll]

Danger, Will Robinson! Danger! Inviting women that aren't nerds to D&D games is like signing your own death sentence!

Then again, if she IS a nerd, then go right ahead!

Au contraire. Unless you're willing to give up playing D&D to be with a girl, finding out whether she'd be interested in that kind of thing or not is kind of handy.

"She's kinda cute but thinks tabletop RPG's are super dorky and wouldn't hang out with anyone who played them" is a recipe for disaster. On the other hand, "She's never played D&D but when I explained the idea to her, she seemed really interested!" means new gamer-girl!

[Superglucose]

Problem is, all the "group functions" I go to are nerdy to that extreme. I think I went to a J party... last january... that wasn't nerdy. Oh yeah, and a friend's grad party.

[Coidzor]

Au contraire. Unless you're willing to give up playing D&D to be with a girl, finding out whether she'd be interested in that kind of thing or not is kind of handy.

But not by asking her to come to a D&D game before you've even asked the girl out.

I mean, as a date, it's almost as bad as a movie. Possibly worse depending upon what kind of roleplayers you are, since you don't get a feel for them, just what they play. And inviting someone to spectate a game of D&D is both rude and... disgustingly bizarre.

[Odentin]

Au contraire. Unless you're willing to give up playing D&D to be with a girl, finding out whether she'd be interested in that kind of thing or not is kind of handy.

"She's kinda cute but thinks tabletop RPG's are super dorky and wouldn't hang out with anyone who played them" is a recipe for disaster. On the other hand, "She's never played D&D but when I explained the idea to her, she seemed really interested!" means new gamer-girl!

Indeed, but tact need be involved.

Super: Hey, do your thing, man. Don't let me detract you. I can tend to be a little pessimistic. If you think it'll work, then go for it! :)

[Castaras]

Perhaps the person who imagined that the worst case scenario was a simple "no".

Certainly around here, if it's 15 + 18, or 16 + 19, unless the parents disapprove (which if it does happen ends up with it being 'no', therefore being the worst case scenario), the law won't drag you up before court for holding hands.

Yes, I do know the laws quite well, due to having dad explain them to me in great detail when I admitted I was going out with a guy 3 years older than I was at 14.

Going by my experience, the worst case scenario that is likely to happen is indeed 'No'.

[Superglucose]

But not by asking her to come to a D&D game before you've even asked the girl out.

I mean, as a date, it's almost as bad as a movie. Possibly worse depending upon what kind of roleplayers you are, since you don't get a feel for them, just what they play. And inviting someone to spectate a game of D&D is both rude and... disgustingly bizarre.

I don't think it'd be a date so much as a chance to hang out outside of work. If you want to call that a date, more power to you

Super: Hey, do your thing, man. Don't let me detract you. I can tend to be a little pessimistic. If you think it'll work, then go for it! :)

I don't have a thing. I don't have game. I don't have ANY of this I just want something to work for once in my life! XD If this weekend is any indication, my "group activities" will be as follows: D&D, mtg draft, yu-gi-oh tourney, D&D.

Some weekends I'll have a Smashfest as well as once a month a brawl tournament XD

[Odentin]

Oh. Ok then. Well, to be honest, as lame as it sounds, confidence is the best "Game" there is...

Good luck, brother!

[Coidzor]

I don't think it'd be a date so much as a chance to hang out outside of work. If you want to call that a date, more power to you

To be honest, once rape gets brought up, my ability and willingness to read the things people are saying drops to almost nothing. I still say something other than that would be preferable, due to the nature of D&D groups and games in general meaning she'd either be a quite possibly awkward intrusion as a spectator or in an awkward place where she'd be joining the game with the implied commitment and investment there before even really getting to know any of ya'll..

*shrug*

[Zeb The Troll]

I mean, as a date, it's almost as bad as a movie.

And inviting someone to spectate a game of D&D is both rude and... disgustingly bizarre.

Both true, but, I was thinking more like this...

I don't think it'd be a date so much as a chance to hang out outside of work.

[xPANCAKEx]

DnD/Gaming - i leave it as my own thing. I've never hidden the fact that i game or that im a nerd, but then i dont try and bring other people into it

any amount of insult or put downs from girlfriends on the subject is usually met with a "yeah, but you still fancy me" which is usually met with "....DAMNIT"

i dont want to involve my other halfs in my gaming in the same way i dont want to involve them in my band. Great if they've got an interest, great if we can create a shared experiance in future, but what ive got now is my own deal.

Coidzilla

bring it up with him. 'Doubling up' is unsettlingly coinsidental at best, down right creepy at worst. As someone else said, DEFINATELY bring up the fact that he made moves on a girl you were actually seeing - thats not cool. Immitation is the best form of flattery, but it doesnt stop what hes doing being a tad weird

And stop telling him when you like a girl ;)

[snoopy13a]

"She's kinda cute but thinks tabletop RPG's are super dorky and wouldn't hang out with anyone who played them" is a recipe for disaster. On the other hand, "She's never played D&D but when I explained the idea to her, she seemed really interested!" means new gamer-girl!

You know, there's also a middle ground which probably contains most people:

"The nice women who thinks RPGs are kinda dorky and not for her. However, she has absolutely no problem with her boyfriend/husband playing them because she doesn't mind if her significant other is a bit of a dork as long as he is a good guy"

The risk with inviting a non-gamer to a D&D game off the bat is turning off the middle ground people. Plus, she (or he) might like you but may find your friends tiresome. It is usually better to introduce your friends after a couple of dates anyway.

[Serpentine]

Before the fairly unnecessary topic of statutory rape disappears, I'd like to just say that I think we can all agree that 15-24 is rather wrong

[Form]

Before the fairly unnecessary topic of statutory rape disappears, I'd like to just say that I think we can all agree that 15-24 is rather wrong

Agreed. A 24-year old should know better.

Oh. Ok then. Well, to be honest, as lame as it sounds, confidence is the best "Game" there is...

Speaking of confidence, anyone got a few tips for those of us whose confidence is rather low?

[The Succubus]

I've always found the idea of statutory rape deeply disturbing. The thought of some creep menacing Rodin's The Thinker, the Venus de Milo and Michelangelo's David freaks me out and puts me off visiting art galleries.

[Serpentine]

Pfff, the way David dresses, he's totally asking for it.

[Quincunx]

Weird as it may be, there's a distinction between "D&D" and "tabletop roleplaying", and it's worth using the latter term with someone who isn't familiar with the concept. D&D is too loaded with preconceptions. It's like trying to start someone on reading science fiction with, oh I don't know, Dune. There's movies and sub-culture jokes and disdain (mostly for the movies) (now it's looking like an even better analogy to D&D) getting in the way of "I do this, try this too, you yourself might like it".

Also, I'll agree with Coidzor that D&D night is a bad 'date' even if you're just running a solo adventure, let alone bringing someone new into a group dynamic ('group' does not equal 'date' in Quincunx-monogamo-world, your results may vary). Some people enjoy being spectators and gaming voyeurs, but that's not a good date either. For a date, you need to both be spectators of the same material, or participants--be on the same level of engagement.

*****

Anyone with the cojones to menace a Rodin worries me. Those things loom. Went to the Rodin exhibition in St. Louis ages ago, spent an hour, and came out staggering.

*****

Coidzor, I'm thinking maybe your friend might be emotionally immature enough not to figure out that it's a girl-hurr-durr and able to be flirted with until he sees you doing it and realizes, it's a girl, hurr-durr etc. Until such time as he develops a sense for this on his own, you should be well within man law to thump some "hands off, mine" sense into him. I take no responsibility for what the girl in question may think about this arrangement.

[Syka]

About the masters thing: technically, yes. About 24 is the normal age to do it. However, most people don't even finish their undergraduate degrees "on time", a lot of people put it off, etc. I was one of only a handful of people I graduated with to graduate on time (actually, a semester early). Most of my friends took anywhere from 2.5-5 years to get their AA, and 5-6 years if they were doing straight bachelors out of high school. So...it's not as common as one would think given the timeline.




Coid, I'd give that friend a talking to. I've only had one friend that actively pursued a guy I was interested in (and dating!), and...we're not friends anymore. The drama llama wasn't worth it. It's up to you if you're willing to put up with his sneaky moves, and granted it's your partner/prospective partners choice whether or not to accept, but it's still a crappy move for a 'friend' to make.

It's one thing if he knows you wouldn't make a move period (OK in that case), but it's another if stuff is being built up and he swoops in.


I mean, Oz got some death glares from our friends when we began dating. But all of them had had chances and never took them (by that, I mean over the course of 3-5 years). Free game, then. If one of them was actively flirting/pursuing me, that would have been a foul.

[ForzaFiori]

So, that said...

How annoyed should I be at my friend for uncharacteristically asking out the girl I was flirting with quite... intensely while I was sitting 5 feet away from him when he met her through answering her IMing me through facebook for me?

Like, on a scale from one to ten.

I would say around... 6, 7. Though considering he's done it before, maybe 7 or 8. Definitely talk to him, and if that doesn't work, quit letting him around girls you like.

Also, how proud of him should I be for finally asking a girl out, like, at all, without either her getting tired of it and doing it herself or my having to beat him to do it?

Again, on a scale from one to ten.

Again, 7 or 8. It is VERY hard to ask a girl out the first time you do it, especially if you've had problems doing so before, so you should be very proud of him. Don't tell him that until AFTER you talk to him about the girl thing though.

[Superglucose]

I still say something other than that would be preferable, due to the nature of D&D groups and games in general meaning she'd either be a quite possibly awkward intrusion as a spectator or in an awkward place where she'd be joining the game with the implied commitment and investment there before even really getting to know any of ya'll.

Interesting. I've had people stop in for one session before and not have a problem with it at all, and I am seriously confused because...

Also, I'll agree with Coidzor that D&D night is a bad 'date' even if you're just running a solo adventure, let alone bringing someone new into a group dynamic ('group' does not equal 'date' in Quincunx-monogamo-world, your results may vary). Some people enjoy being spectators and gaming voyeurs, but that's not a good date either. For a date, you need to both be spectators of the same material, or participants--be on the same level of engagement.

So you people thought I meant "Hey, come watch me play this game?" I'm very, very confused. Are there guys who actually do that?

Oh wait, I'm a Brawl player and I can honestly say there are Blech to guys who bring their girls to things like that. Nah, if I'm bringing a girl (or a guy, doesn't honestly matter) to an event like that I'm doing it with the intention of getting him or her involved.

The risk with inviting a non-gamer to a D&D game off the bat is turning off the middle ground people. Plus, she (or he) might like you but may find your friends tiresome. It is usually better to introduce your friends after a couple of dates anyway.

I've heard group events are the best option in this case.

I mean, Oz got some death glares from our friends when we began dating. But all of them had had chances and never took them (by that, I mean over the course of 3-5 years). Free game, then. If one of them was actively flirting/pursuing me, that would have been a foul.

Ok, well... let's be fair. From what I understand you had a 3ish year relationship (3.5?) and then you had a messy breakup and then Oz jumped at the chance really quickly. I remember you saying something to that regard.

It's possible that some of your friends knew you were taken at the time, and so didn't want to pursue ('cause that's kind of a jerk thing to do, because it disrespects both you and your significant other if they know you're committed), and then simply didn't have the opportunity Oz did to ask you out.

I know I'd be very, very uninterested in asking out a friend, even if I liked her very much, very soon after she broke up with her boyfriend. I've just... never seen it work well, to be honest.

[zeratul]

Speaking of confidence, anyone got a few tips for those of us whose confidence is rather low?

Fake it till you make it. Just start acting more confident and eventually you actually are confident. A lot of it has to do with ones mindset and self esteem which can be hard to change, but there's also subtle things one can alter in order to increase confidence. when I'm around lots of people and particularly when I'm playing a gig, I always wear sunglasses since then people can't make eye contact and it all seems far less personal and overwhelming (apparently mitch hedburg did this too, or so I am told).

Find little things like that which boost your confidence, and otherwise, just actively try to seem like a more confident person than you actually are until you are one.

[ForzaFiori]

So me and the girl that I like (for the sake of simplicity, let's call her C) had a date today. Kinda. We went to see Despicable Me. I know movies aren't usually the best idea, but 1) there is very little else to do in my town, 2) we're already great friends, so don't need to talk, and 3) we both REALLY wanted to see the movie, and i'd look like a creep if I went by myself.

ANYWAY: Movie was amazing. Possibly the cutest kid movie I've seen in a long time, and I recommend it to anyone who likes that kind of movie. We held hands in the movie, and when I took her home, I got a kiss. :)

I'm uber happy. She's leaving for the beach tomorrow, so I won't see her for a while, but when she gets back I might see if she wants to do something else before she moves in at Lander.

[Karoht]

Speaking of confidence, anyone got a few tips for those of us whose confidence is rather low?

Sorry, the first thing that came to mind was from the Simpsons.
"Hi, I'm Troy McLure. You might remember me from such self-help videos as 'Smoke Yourself Thin' and 'Get Confident Stupid.'

In all reality, the biggest booster of confidence (aside from having more than one member of the opposite sex fight over you) is to just keep in mind what you are good at. Play to your strength, so to speak.

Also, don't just do something, do it smoothly. The example I use is mixing a martini. You don't just chuck ingredients into the shaker and throw it around vigorously. You carefully measure, you pour slowly and delicately, you put the cap back on the bottle with maybe a little flourish, and you shake the shaker rhythmically, a bit playfully, maybe with a little groove to it. Above all, take pride in what you are doing, and let it show that you are proud of what you are doing.

Never underestimate what a good handshake can do for your confidence in yourself or someone else. Conversely, do not underestimate what your handshake says to someone else.
Eye contact is equally important as the handshake. Always look em in the eye. It says you are honest, and unafraid to say what you are saying.

And last but not least, you smile all the while. A smile is easily the best communicator that you are having a good time and aren't worried about what you are doing or what's going on. It sets people at ease.

[Superglucose]

Also, don't just do something, do it smoothly. The example I use is mixing a martini. You don't just chuck ingredients into the shaker and throw it around vigorously.

Well since the only way I can drink a martini is if I've already had five or six, you've pretty much described how I personally make a martini

[Pheehelm]

Hitting on someone else's target -- I seem to be the minority here, but the whole discussion makes me uncomfortable. Something about it just implies to me that a guy has an exclusive claim staked on a girl as soon as he's interested (or expressed interest) in her, and I haven't seen much acknowledgment here that, if she does go with the second guy to pursue her in a short period of time, that's her decision.


Serp --

Before the fairly unnecessary topic of statutory rape disappears, I'd like to just say that I think we can all agree that 15-24 is rather wrong

...sure, but what brought this on?


Form --

Speaking of confidence, anyone got a few tips for those of us whose confidence is rather low?

Mind elaborating on what "low confidence" entails in your case? I mean, what is it you're underconfident about? What are you worried will happen?

But if you want a general tip -- see what happens if you train yourself to walk without seeing your toes.

[Drascin]

Never underestimate what a good handshake can do for your confidence in yourself or someone else. Conversely, do not underestimate what your handshake says to someone else.
Eye contact is equally important as the handshake. Always look em in the eye. It says you are honest, and unafraid to say what you are saying.

Ah, the eye contact thing. One of these days I really need to work on that. I started having the habit to look elsewhere when I talked to people when one my teachers told me, when I was about... fourteen or so, I think... that I had an extremely unnerving gaze and it really made them uncomfortable. And now, being 22 and after many years of this, I basically look elsewhere as I talk a matter of course and habit, and rarely even realize I'm doing it. It's part of the reason I have such trouble remembering people's faces and yet can remember their voices and even their particular smell perfectly even years after the last time I meet them - I just never actually see them much! . I get told this makes me look rather absent, as if I'm not paying much attention to the conversation, which is a bit bothersome, though, so I probably should bother to change that a bit.

[Keld Denar]

So, I texted V last night, offering a break or distraction. When she texted me back, she said she really wanted to focus on unpacking and that she would see me Sunday. I can't help but think that if she was even half as into me as I'm into her, that she'd welcome a couple hour distraction from unpacking and a free meal (and my company). I can see being busy unpacking, but THAT busy...kinda worries me that she's not that interested in me just doesn't want to deal with it. I really hope thats not the case, and that shes more mature than that, as all other signs point, but I still can't shake the feeling...

Oh Sunday, why do you have to be so far away!!!!

[MountainKing]

Hitting on someone else's target -- I seem to be the minority here, but the whole discussion makes me uncomfortable. Something about it just implies to me that a guy has an exclusive claim staked on a girl as soon as he's interested (or expressed interest) in her, and I haven't seen much acknowledgment here that, if she does go with the second guy to pursue her in a short period of time, that's her decision.

Target is subjective; the possessiveness or not isn't what's on the line here. What IS, is the fact that Coid's friend was, quite simply, not being a gentleman. At all. Call it chivalry, bro-code, whatever you call it, I don't care. It's just not done, and he could've been flirting with the bloody fridge for all it matters. The friend did him wrongly, no matter how slight it seems to anyone.