Relationship Woes and Advice: A Sleepless Fortnight

[Superglucose]

Yes, yes it is, But as long as I learn something more than, "Its their life," I think losing an argument is worth it. I have already learned quite a bit as to why people act the way they do from the responses.

I don't believe you came here to argue or discuss. I don't believe you've come here to learn. I have read your posts and have only come to the conclusion that you are here to tell us that we are all wrong.

[Coidzor]

Acquaintance?

It's too close for us to be acquaintances. But the emotional triggers aren't there for it to be a real friendship, simply put, she is incapable of feeling any more regret than the loss of something interesting if I, say, died or dropped off the face of the earth.

[Arutema]

To request some advice here.

It''s seeming like online dating sites may be my best hope for finding somebody.

What's good etiquette for messaging someone on OKCupid and similar sites? What are things to say or mention. What are things to avoid saying or mentioning?

What can I do to get at least a polite "no" from a lady?

[Odentin]

I believe someone posted a link to a guide for Chemistry (I think).

I'm sure the advice given would still be relevant. Does anyone still have the link?

Edit: Found it! http://blog.okcupid.com/ There's a bunch of articles on there that can help you.

[Superglucose]

Some girl was like "Message me if... you're smart and want to have intelligent conversations." So after reading her profile about her desire for anarchy, I asked her about her opinions on stateless catalonia during the Franco revolution.

COMPLETELY unsurprisingly, she was all talk about being a) interested in history and politics and b) being interested in intellectuals.

I did get a good laugh out of it though

(note: I'm of the firm belief that the truly intelligent will only admit they're intelligent under duress and that most people who offer up their intelligence as a quality about themselves tend to be not)

[Skeppio]

I think I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life.
I'm 21 and never had a girlfriend. I'm ugly. I almost never get out and socialise (I lack the time, money and any social skills). I still live at home. I have no drivers license or car. My hobbies suck and are boring to everyone else. I have no important/useful skills or talents.

Sigh.

[Keld Denar]

Take up working out? Get a better job/go to school for something useful?

Dude, you are only 21...you've got a lot of life to live, don't just sit here, go out and make something of yourself!

[TooManyBadgers]

Sigh.

Do fun things. Act less ugly.
Next.

[Coidzor]

I think I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life.
I'm 21 and never had a girlfriend. I'm ugly. I almost never get out and socialise (I lack the time, money and any social skills). I still live at home. I have no drivers license or car. My hobbies suck and are boring to everyone else. I have no important/useful skills or talents.

Sigh.

Well, start with what you do have. and branch out. If you're interested in it, odds are, others are as well. Odds also are in favor of there being some sort of group in the vicinity(for a given value of vicinity) that you could find that's comprised of fellow X enthusiasts.

[Quincunx]

And the others have made excellent explanations as to the pros of love. You're just too ingrained with negative sentiment towards the topic that you will never see the value of their words, or anyone's. I don't know where that animosity comes from, but I have a theory.

As a troll, I applaud you in being able to get so many people to reply so wholeheartedly. Fine job.

I dithered on this, but yes, you're only implying that druid is a troll, and one can't be convicted for trolling (by rules--the court of public opinion is another matter ) if one speaks out of ignorance, and druid's ignorance of other people is such that he doesn't understand why they could be trolled/insulted by his viewpoint.

Now if I were to turn and reply directly to druid, and I would address it, the instructions would be trolling even though given with no ill intent.

[Coidzor]

Quinx, you hurt my head like always. So, in short, <3.

[loopy]

I think I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life.
I'm 21 and never had a girlfriend. I'm ugly. I almost never get out and socialise (I lack the time, money and any social skills). I still live at home. I have no drivers license or car. My hobbies suck and are boring to everyone else. I have no important/useful skills or talents.

Sigh.

Honesty time!

-Improve that self-esteem. No one is going to want you if you describe yourself like that. You've got to sell yourself. Make people want to know you. This comes in a myriad of forms, physical (dressing well/keeping in shape), mental (keeping yourself occupied, learning new things), psychological (expunging bad mental habits before they take hold) and social (go out and take the time to make new friends).
-Why don't you have time to improve your social skills and etc? If you have no money and live at home you should have plenty of time.
-What are your hobbies?
-21 is the perfect time to develop some skills or talents. I spent my 21st year learning to dance, getting rid of my annoying un-coordinated-ness-ment.
-Stop feeling sorry for yourself and start being proactive. Living at home at 21 isn't bad, I myself only moved out at 22. Get a job, its an easy way to make friends, get social skills, and develop yourself socially at the same time.
-The hardest thing is cherishing your small victories. Don't let your entire self-esteem ride on a single job interview, for example. "Hey, I had a pleasant conversation with someone at the bus stop today, I'm that much closer to being who I want to be".

Hope this helps!

[Quincunx]

Anecdote: If you do decide to work on improving your rhythm while walking, leave one ear free of earbud and don't do it while walking along a major thoroughfare. Rubbernecking is one thing but an unknown car stopping and waiting for you is quite another. (With the inelegant way I was dressed that day, believe me, it had to have been the rhythm.) Luckily there was a one-way street nearby which I could disappear into. Pedestrians aren't bound by one-way travel.

[Superglucose]

+1 getting a job.

[Castaras]

I think I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life.

This can be solved in a few easy steps

I'm 21 and never had a girlfriend.

Doesn't matter one jot.

I'm ugly.

Well yes, you'll seem ugly if you're self loathing all the time. Act confident, be happy, and I guarantee you you will look a lot better. (I've been doing my damndest to get over the "I don't look like a hollywood model" mentality the past few years and I'm finally doing it - looked in the mirror this morning and said to myself "Huh, she doesn't look half bad.")

I almost never get out and socialise (I lack the time, money and any social skills).

Time: Why? You have a job? If you have a job, socialise at work? Can't socialise at work? If you go to school, socialise at school? Force yourself to go to clubs or something once a week in the evening. And I do mean, Force yourself. Find a club(nightclub, karate club, drama group, tiddlywinks championships) in your area you can get to with your current transport, and make sure you go there each week. It will be hard to start off with, but as you do it more, you will improve your social skills, and will get a lot of enjoyment and happiness.

I still live at home.

So what. Means diddlysquat.

I have no drivers license or car.

Public Transport, getting lifts off of other people, walking, biking, skateboarding, unicycling...

My hobbies suck and are boring to everyone else.

If you enjoy your hobbies then they do not suck and are not boring to everyone else. There will be other people out there who do too.
What hobbies do you have, outta curiosity? You could try introducing your friends (or the ones you find at aforementioned club ) to it.

I have no important/useful skills or talents.

Ah! But you just said you had hobbies. Every hobby without question uses a skill. Hobbies give you happiness, therefore the skill for that hobby is important. Therefore, you do have an important skill.

Sigh.

Indeed. And now you've sighed and got mopey about it, get out there and do something about it, instead of moping about it. Getting moody about your problems won't do anything about it except give other people the chance to sympathise with you and offer suggestions. To actually make a difference and CHANGE so that you are the person you want to be, you have to put the effort in. Which means no more sitting in a chair grumbling about how awful you are. If you know what you don't like about yourself, go through 3 simple steps:

1. Work out the problem.
2. Work out what things you can do about it.
3. Do it!

It's bloody hard to do it, but it's all there is you can do.

*hugs*

[Rowsen]

I think I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life.
I'm 21 and never had a girlfriend. I'm ugly. I almost never get out and socialise (I lack the time, money and any social skills). I still live at home. I have no drivers license or car. My hobbies suck and are boring to everyone else. I have no important/useful skills or talents.

Sigh.

Dude, we're twins. I'm awesome, therefore you're awesome.
You had a girlfriend. Twas brief, but it was something. And D&D is cool. I wish I had that Orcus figurine, it's badass.
Buck up, we're going somewhere this weekend.


Although you have a point about the transport issue. Our services are pretty bad.

[Drascin]

I think I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life.
I'm 21 and never had a girlfriend. I'm ugly. I almost never get out and socialise (I lack the time, money and any social skills). I still live at home. I have no drivers license or car. My hobbies suck and are boring to everyone else. I have no important/useful skills or talents.

Sigh.

Heh. For the record, I'm pretty much the same except I'm 22 - and that I've been improving my self-esteem despite of all that. Never had a girlfriend*, have trouble socializing, don't have a license (and not sure I want one. Someone as easily distracted as me handling a one-ton metal heap of death? Not sounding like a good idea, no, mostly for the people around). I also still live at home, and see no stigma with it - intend to do so untill I finish my university career. Of course, I happen to enjoy my parents' company in any case, so I'm obviously in the minority here. Ugly, heh, I honestly doubt you can be as ugly as I am. And indeed I don't have many skills that others would consider useful.

And yet, I'm pretty sure I'm not that bad, in fact I'm pretty cool, and am fairly happy with myself. For the record? It helps to realize that your self-standards are, generally, totally out of whack, and that chances are you're massively downplaying yourself and seeing "normal" people in a way too "idolized" light. See, I used to consider myself a horrible little excuse for a person because I never seemed to actually accomplish anything "big" and never gave my own little victories any consideration - thinking "yeah, but anyone with two braincells could have done that. I should have...". But you know what? Not everyone could, actually. I was just too used to seeing what I was good at as too easy, not deserving of merit, while what "everyone else" did was a lot more awesome, and so I got down on myself.

And then I started thinking with a bit more perspective (if I told you what made me stop and reflect, you'd laugh, though! ), and realized that yeah, I may not be exceedingly awesome - but then, pretty much nobody else is. We're all just people, a bunch of whackos trying to get by and connect to each other - and that I'm pretty cool myself in a good day! Basically, just remember that you're not all that worse than most people (observing them helps with that ), do your best, be excellent to each other, and party on, and things will generally work out with people.

*My only worry at all is that from observing my friends who have had multiple girlfriends, romance appears to be something you get better at with practice, so I'm a bit worried that when I finally meet someone I find worth pursuing (only had one crush during high-school, asked her out, got rejected, never found anyone else that made me want to try - so I'm completely in the blank when it comes to this stuff), I'll totally mess it up via a huge newbie's mistake. But we'll cross that bridge when it happens.

[Superglucose]

To be fair, some of us really DO have hideous looking bodies

(talking about myself of course!)

[Skeppio]

*snip*

-I don't have time because I'm at work all day and I live in one of those towns with no real social scene.
-My job isn't one for socializing (Mortgage Clerk). I have no qualifications and only got this job by luck, so quitting it isn't an option.
-I do have cash, I'm just so damn paranoid about using it in case something bad happens (such as if the firm figures out that my job can be mostly replicated by a trained ape or a decent Word macro).
-Confidence isn't just something I can conjure up. It requires me to lie through my teeth about everything that I am. I hate doing that because it'll inevitably come back to haunt me.
-My hobbies are the general Dungeons & Dragons stuff like that. The kind no-one anywhere near me would like. I have no interest in things like sports, celebrities or the like.
-If I'm trying to meet people, pretty much anything I can say about myself that isn't total BS should drive them away.

Bah, don't listen to me. I'm just a raving madman.

[Quincunx]

Meh, tactfully ignoring a friend who's being a killjoy/talking out of their nethers/ignoring what you have to add and just continuing on his own rant is a critical skill of friendship.

[Mr. Mud]

I'm in ncredible amounts of awe. You'll all probably think I'm trolling... Anyway, she randomly calls me like nothings happened, and asks if I'd like to go see a play with her, that started in like 30 minutes. It was totally spur of the moment, since we'd both been sitting around all day, and we got the very last two tickets in at like the very last minute. Like out of some sort of made for TV movie.

I can't believe it. More to come about all this when I know how to react... .

[rakkoon]

Mr Mud, save this thread to a file and sell it as a script to a Network.

I hope it has a happy ending.

[Trog]

Right, so I have a woe. It's not a relationship woe, just more of a personal communication woe:

Spoiler

Show

When I am feeling some strong emotion I am often unable to express it properly and I react, nearly always, in this manner:

1. I'll feel the emotion.
2. I'll react to it without realizing I'm feeling it.
3. I'll realize I am reacting to an emotion.
4. I'll begin to analyze why I am feeling this way.
4a. I figure out why I am feeling this way on my own. If I cannot figure out why then goto 5.
5. Only after a long conversation where I talk through it with someone else do I realize what is at the heart of the matter - the real root feeling.
6. I'll regret my floundering in the previous conversation where I said lots of things that weren't correct but which I needed to go through to get to the heart of the matter because that process seems to be the only one that works for me to do so for matters which are not readily apparent to me in step 4.

It's the regret in step 6 at the process in step 5 that is my woe here today. I wish I had a better way to do this. Sadly, sometimes I can only seem to properly think things through when talking through it to someone else. And it's a messy process. =/

[Rowsen]

Mr Mud, save this thread to a file and sell it as a script to a Network.

I hope it has a happy ending.

If it ends with him riding off into the sunset on a motorcycle, I'd definitely watch it.

[Form]

Sheesh, it's almost like looking into a mirror.

I'm pretty much working on the same issues myself by developing a more positive attitude and simply going out more. I'm still reluctant to go and approach new people just like that, but sitting at home all the time won't help at all. I've done that and it didn't do squat. So I've been going and will keep going to my fraternity at least twice a week.

-I don't have time because I'm at work all day and I live in one of those towns with no real social scene.

Every town must have some sort of social scene. Alternatively, perhaps a neighbouring town has a better social scene and you could go there instead. Either way, it beats sitting at home all the time.

-My job isn't one for socializing (Mortgage Clerk). I have no qualifications and only got this job by luck, so quitting it isn't an option.

Got any coworkers? Do you get lunch breaks? Start having lunch and/or coffee together with other people.

-I do have cash, I'm just so damn paranoid about using it in case something bad happens (such as if the firm figures out that my job can be mostly replicated by a trained ape or a decent Word macro).

Well, you don't have to spend that much money. Just use some of it and keep an eye on your expenses if you're that worried, but I'm guessing you can definitely afford some social activities.

-Confidence isn't just something I can conjure up. It requires me to lie through my teeth about everything that I am. I hate doing that because it'll inevitably come back to haunt me.

Yeah, this is something that'll probably take some time. This bugs me as well since I'm working on it myself too and I'm rather impatient about it, but the only short term solution I've heard of is dressing up in an outfit you know you look good in. Or, something you can strut in, as Serpentine told me in this thread a while back.

I don't think you have to lie about who you are, just don't be embarrassed about it and start seeing yourself in a more positive light. Don't be afraid to be yourself and give yourself more credit. Force yourself to think better about yourself and avoid being pessimistic.

Bah, don't listen to me. I'm just a raving madman.

Heh, no problem. I bet we're all at least a little crazy in some way.

[Skeppio]

Sheesh, it's almost like looking into a mirror.

I'm pretty much working on the same issues myself by developing a more positive attitude and simply going out more. I'm still reluctant to go and approach new people just like that, but sitting at home all the time won't help at all. I've done that and it didn't do squat. So I've been going and will keep going to my fraternity at least twice a week.



Every town must have some sort of social scene. Alternatively, perhaps a neighbouring town has a better social scene and you could go there instead. Either way, it beats sitting at home all the time.



Got any coworkers? Do you get lunch breaks? Start having lunch and/or coffee together with other people.



Well, you don't have to spend that much money. Just use some of it and keep an eye on your expenses if you're that worried, but I'm guessing you can definitely afford some social activities.



Yeah, this is something that'll probably take some time. This bugs me as well since I'm working on it myself too and I'm rather impatient about it, but the only short term solution I've heard of is dressing up in an outfit you know you look good in. Or, something you can strut in, as Serpentine told me in this thread a while back.

I don't think you have to lie about who you are, just don't be embarrassed about it and start seeing yourself in a more positive light. Don't be afraid to be yourself and give yourself more credit. Force yourself to think better about yourself and avoid being pessimistic.



Heh, no problem. I bet we're all at least a little crazy in some way.

-I mean it when I say this town has no life. Each nearest town is pretty far away, I don't have a vehicle and there's no public transport out of town, except by a train that takes me to work.

-Everyone else has their lunch hour an hour earlier than me. I chose poorly when I started this job. No-one ever talks to me much anyway. Also, I don't drink coffee.

-I can afford socializing cash-wise. Just not time-wise. Besides, I don't know anywhere I could go or anyone with anything in common with me.

-It's pretty hard not to see myself negatively when that's all there is. I'm dead serious when I say I'm boring, ugly and have no talents or skills.

And you're all crazy in a good interesting way. I'm just the bitter, lonely kind of crazy.

[The Succubus]

Let me ask you something. Do you want to stay like this? Because unless you want to change, you won't. I won't claim to know exactly what it's like because I'm not you. I used to be like you and then I realised that while I wanted people to be nice and warm to me and offer me kind words, what I *needed* was a slap around the face and someone to tell me to stop feeling so damn sorry for myself.

Am I going to win any beauty contests soon? No. Have I got a job where I wake up everyday and think "f*** yes, I can't wait to go to work!"? No. Have I got a hundred thousand friends who hang on my every word? No. Stop comparing yourself to others and listen to your friends and family you do have - they know you better than you know yourself and you would be stupid to ignore their advice

[loopy]

Look mate, this is a relationship woes and advice thread. You have informed us of your woes, now go and take on board some of the above advice, and then come back and tell us about how you went.

Here is a useful way to start: No one likes giving someone some advice, only to have it ignored so that person can whine more. Theres something you can work on. If you don't intend on working on improving yourself, you'll find that people lose sympathy with you.

And hey, if your self-image is as bad as you say, you may want to look into seeing a psychologist. Worked wonders for me when I was suffering from depression a few years back.

[Syka]

Druid, you assume people make the search for love an all consuming priority to the detriment of everything else, that they let aspirations fall to the wayside, and that it always has negative consequences.

This is a blatantly false generalization.

For one, if everyone made the search for love their all consuming priority, nothing would get done in the world. Have I had friends pine for love? Sure. But they still got an education, a job, and contribute to society through volunteering and such. They miss the companionship that comes from a lover, but they don't let that stop them from doing the other things they want. They don't spend 24 hours a day looking for love.

As to the second point, that is also rarely what happens. In some cases, yes. It does. But those are few when compared to romantic relationships as a whole, and a SO should be one who encourages you to follow your dreams. Neither Oz nor I have had to alter our dreams in either way. He's still going to film school, I'm getting my MBA, and we are both well on our way to doing what we want to do. If anything, we've both helped each other focus and achieve more than we would have otherwise. Most of my friends have similarly supportive relationships.

And you can NOT say it's not worth it because it ends or whatever, because you've never been there. In a relationship where you truly loved the person, an ending is sad. Very sad. But also, worth it. It hurt like hell when my Ex broke up with me and told me he cheated. I don't regret a minute of our relationship. It taught me a lot, and helped me grow, and I still appreciate that.

Oz and I have been together 3 years now, and were it to end (at the moment, we don't see it ending by means other than a failure to live), it would also hurt like hell. I would be depressed. I may or may not choose to pursue romantic interests down the line (and I wouldn't worry about whether or not he 'approves', it would purely depend on my emotional status and whether I could fully give another lover myself because anything less would not be fair to the new lover)*. But every second I have spent with him has been worth it. Every experience, every kiss, every laugh...even every fight has been worth any pain I may experience later.


A romantic love is not unworthy because it ends. Then familial, friendly, and all other kinds of love would not be worth it. Starting a business would not be worth it because one day it will likely end. Buying a house would not be worth it because one day it will fall. Going on vacation would not be worth it, because it's temporary. But if it brings you happiness NOW, an ending later does not make it somehow unworthy of occurring.

EVERYTHING is a risk. Anything you do carries a risk of failure. If you feel any amount of risk of failure/hurt/whatever makes it not worth it, then you might as well just not be living**. Because you won't be doing anything.




*Note: The uncertainty about whether or not I would seek a future partner is purely on the basis that the relationship ended due to failure to live. A regular break up due to any number of reasons would not result in the same uncertainty. It would suck hardcore, but I'd recover. I could see recovering after a failure to live being much, much harder on me, though. Still worth the risk.

**Note, this is also not saying go kill yourself or anything. I'm saying if you (general, not specific) don't take risks, your life isn't really being lived. You would probably be sitting in a bunker somewhere living off...well, I guess intravenous feeding since eating anything-fresh, canned, cooked, whatever- carries the risk of contracting some sort of illness. LIVING is one big ball of risks.

[Serpentine]

I always figured 'friends with benefits' was essentially 'I want something for nothing. In this case, sex.'.

It boils my blood. You don't deserve this kind of shabby treatment.

That isn't fair at all. It is, I think, preferred - and often achieved - that rather than that, friends with benefits is "I want something for nothing. You want something for nothing. In this case, sex. Lets share!" Even when it is one sided, I doubt very much that in the majority of cases the one whose "way" is favoured is aware of it or doing it intentionally. It's (generalisation) the other person not acknowledging what they really want, thinking that they just need to make do with what they can get, and/or hoping that sometime they can change the situation. From personal experience, from the other side (to be fair, the last one turned out to work, but there were Circumstances).

To request some advice here.

It''s seeming like online dating sites may be my best hope for finding somebody.

What's good etiquette for messaging someone on OKCupid and similar sites? What are things to say or mention. What are things to avoid saying or mentioning?

What can I do to get at least a polite "no" from a lady?

OKCupid itself probably has some advice on the topic. But personally...
- First and primarily, you want to start a conversation, not a relationship or seduction. Everything else is pretty much aimed at this.
- Read their profile, find something about it you're genuinely interested in. Talk about that - preferably something specific, like a specific question, but you can throw in some general stuff. Like, say: "So I see you're into roleplaying games. What sort do you like? Have you tried 4th edition D&D? What do you think about it?
- There are few cases where comments on physical appearance will be a good thing. Especially avoid things like "you're sexy/hot/cute/pretty" (the latter two are less bad, but still not good). You might get away with something like, say, "your hair in that picture, the one where you were doing Edward Scissorhands cosplay? That is amazing. You really got the topiary effect! And where did your friend get that awesome corset thing?"
- This is going to sound odd, but... both confidence and self-conciousness or self-depreciation can be a good thing. Pulling off both at once would be rather impressive.
- Don't be sleazy.
- Be yourself.
- If "yourself" is sleazy, make yourself a better person.

Plenty more, but that's all that comes to mind.

I think I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life.
I'm 21 and never had a girlfriend. I'm ugly. I almost never get out and socialise (I lack the time, money and any social skills). I still live at home. I have no drivers license or car. My hobbies suck and are boring to everyone else. I have no important/useful skills or talents.

See my siglink/s. I suggest looking into a motorbike license. By the way, I'm 24 and still on my Ls, and don't have a car (I did have a car I inherited from my Gramma, but it was older than I am and some douche threw a brick through the back window so I sold it to a recovering drug addict for $200 and a box of Roses. Nice guy, delivers newspapers). Other than that, I think everyone's said anything I could.

Act less ugly.

I find this wording very interesting. Pithy.
Oh, one thing I've been wanting to use lately: Do the things that make you jealous of other people.