Relationship Woes and Advice: A Sleepless Fortnight

[skywalker]

We sampled the irish guiness, and the american guiness, and I must say, I personally think it tastes different. Irish guiness was smoother, but more mild. American guiness was more bitter.

First mistake was bottled Guinness. I've never had Irish bottled Guinness, but American bottled Guinness tastes terrible. I theorize it's the long journey to the states (your friend's duty-free was probably newer than what you can buy anywhere here in the states).

Keld wins an internet.

He's either a lucky man, or a great writer of fiction.

Either one is worth a win.

"Winternet?"

I think you are now my favorite mod. Ever.

Not a mod.

Three months is a tad early for L-bombing, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

If you don't mind my asking...can either of you say you've seen the other at their worst?

I disagree. I've never been with someone who I couldn't definitively say I loved after 3 months.

Yes, my emotional array is approximately that of a golden retriever

You mean it's bad to be compared to Dug?

Oh.

Oh no...

[Superglucose]

Superglucose, you're working inside a world chock-full of marketers, advertisers, and proselytizers of many stripes who make their entire living pretending to be interested in the well-being of their marks. The very first reaction of virtually anybody to unsolicited help is highly likely to be extreme suspicion, and that's even more true if they don't see your angle, your benefit, because they're just going to assume there still is one and that you need to hide it for some reason.

Yup. I know this. My friends are the ones who have seen that I'm not pretending.

[Pyrian]

How many of them have sent their bank account information to that nice gentleman in Nigeria who wants to give them his inheritance?

...Look, I'm just trying to say that just because somebody doesn't necessarily welcome your help at any given moment doesn't mean you have to kick them out of your life with extreme prejudice. Because that's what you described here and it came across as being very snobbish.

[Superglucose]

apparently this is going for the jugular. Apologies.

[Bacon Barbarian]

So ... What do you do when your not over someone, but their over you?

[Syka]

Oz and I l-bombed within a month; Ex and I within 3. I'd have to say I definitely knew within 3 months both times. Seeing as both relationships both last 3+ years, I don't think I was mistaken, especially given that I don't just drop the L word in response to anyone (last guy I dated said it, I didn't).



Anyway, world just imploded over here. Oz screwed up pretty bad- not really in what precipitated it (though bad, not earth shattering), but in his response. It was way out of line. On top of this, my mom is also pissed at him and...I'm not really sure how she'll feel towards him in the long run. I mean, I'll probably not be happy-happy for a while, but I'm not going to just hold it against him since I know he IS sorry. Once the feelings of hurt have subsided, I'll be fine. Her...I'm not so sure.

This sucks.

[Keld Denar]

First mistake was bottled Guinness. I've never had Irish bottled Guinness, but American bottled Guinness tastes terrible. I theorize it's the long journey to the states (your friend's duty-free was probably newer than what you can buy anywhere here in the states).

Technically, it wasn't bottled. It was canned. I dunno if thats strictly better or worse, since its been a while since I've had bottled guiness, or any guiness period, so I was mostly going on difference of taste between the two.

Can't wait to hang out with her tomorrow. It'll be our first time hanging out together, with others around, since we started dating. And VOLLEYBALL!

[Superglucose]

Anyway, world just imploded over here. Oz screwed up pretty bad- not really in what precipitated it (though bad, not earth shattering), but in his response. It was way out of line. On top of this, my mom is also pissed at him and...I'm not really sure how she'll feel towards him in the long run. I mean, I'll probably not be happy-happy for a while, but I'm not going to just hold it against him since I know he IS sorry. Once the feelings of hurt have subsided, I'll be fine. Her...I'm not so sure.

This sucks.

I think that perhaps your mom needs to realize that if you can get over it, then she should get over it. And if she's anything like you, then I suspect that she'll realize this.

EDIT:

Trivia Night at a bar with friends in a college town... good chance at cute, smart girls. I'm down, and I'm the DD. And the house is mine alone

Here's hoping this goes well! Also I'd like to add that I'm a bit concerned that my friend's flatmate likes me... because I don't really like her. Oh well, I'll just assume the answer is the normal answer (lolno) and carry on!

[MountainKing]

Technically, it wasn't bottled. It was canned. I dunno if thats strictly better or worse, since its been a while since I've had bottled guiness, or any guiness period, so I was mostly going on difference of taste between the two.

Can't wait to hang out with her tomorrow. It'll be our first time hanging out together, with others around, since we started dating. And VOLLEYBALL!

Oh God man, never ever ever drink canned. Bleeeeh. Spring for bottled next time!

Also, Superglucose, speaking as a fellow emotional person, who likely also wears their hearts on their sleeves, I would like to say that, while yeah, Pyrian's being a little cynical about it, he does have a slight point. It CAN be hard to just accept that somebody is genuinely a nice person, especially if one has been kind of burned in the past, or has had friends who've been burned that way. I won't claim to know anything about your experiences, but, maybe you're being a little too aggressive about how you react to people who don't believe you?

[Superglucose]

Are you saying I should be friends with people who think I'm fake?

[xPANCAKEx]

syka - what id oz actually do?

[snoopy13a]

Oh God man, never ever ever drink canned. Bleeeeh. Spring for bottled next time!

Canned Guinness isn't exactly canned Beast Lite. Guinness used to sell:

1) Guinness extra stout in bottles
2) Guinness draught in cans as they needed a widget-thingie in order to preserve the head. So Guinness in a can wasn't a bad thing and it used to be the closest one could get to draft Guinness from kegs. One is supposed to pour the beer into a glass and is not supposed to drink from the can.

In the last couple of years, Guinness was able to add the widget-thingie to bottles. One drinks directly from the bottle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widget_(beer)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness#Varieties

[Superglucose]

So looks like no trivia. Superglucose is a sad monosaccharide.

[MountainKing]

Are you saying I should be friends with people who think I'm fake?

In a word, yeah. I am. If you're not willing to deal with the fact that we live in a day and age where, frankly, people are hard to believe, and step up and just be consistent in the face of doubt, then what do you expect?

I mean, if it were myself, and you presented yourself as... well, yourself, I'd immediately have misgivings. I'd hang out, sure, but I wouldn't just implicitly trust you. But, if in the face of that distrust, you just dropped off the radar without even so much as an "Eff off, dude.", then you can bet your arse I'd believe I was right about not trusting you.

It's an unfortunate statement about society at large, but, people being fake is *common*. It's an expectation, unspoken or otherwise.

[Bacon Barbarian]

In a word, yeah. I am. If you're not willing to deal with the fact that we live in a day and age where, frankly, people are hard to believe, and step up and just be consistent in the face of doubt, then what do you expect?

I mean, if it were myself, and you presented yourself as... well, yourself, I'd immediately have misgivings. I'd hang out, sure, but I wouldn't just implicitly trust you. But, if in the face of that distrust, you just dropped off the radar without even so much as an "Eff off, dude.", then you can bet your arse I'd believe I was right about not trusting you.

It's an unfortunate statement about society at large, but, people being fake is *common*. It's an expectation, unspoken or otherwise.

I dont think so. In general sure, but who doesnt have a close friend tat they know they can trust?

[arguskos]

I dont think so. In general sure, but who doesnt have a close friend tat they know they can trust?

...MK isn't arguing that point. He's saying that MOST people aren't like that, the vast majority of human beings are not that person. He's then saying that Supes stated position of "if you don't believe me, then I just walk away from the relationship" earlier seems a bit harsh in this light.

Note: I make no judgments about anything said. Just trying to clarify a little.

[Serpentine]

Screw it. I don't have to explain myself to Pyrian. He's decided what he's going to decide. Sure, it's a gross misreading of what I'm saying. Sure his manner of responding is highly insulting (especially comparing me to Dug and telling me my friends are the kind who freely give away their bank accounts). But whatever.

Whoa, hyperdefensiveness much? Pyrian is just trying to demonstrate to you that these people you are so quick to judge and discard have their own reasons and points of view that perhaps might be worth your while taking into account. What you take as being "highly insulting" is nothing more than a humorous jab to make a point. Seriously mate, chill the frick out. You're doing it again.

[Superglucose]

Pyrian is just trying to demonstrate to you that these people you are so quick to judge and discard have their own reasons and points of view that perhaps might be worth your while taking into account. What you take as being "highly insulting" is nothing more than a humorous jab to make a point.

Pyrian saw the first jab land poorly and his immediate thought was to take another. That's pretty damn rude.

And yes, I will discard and avoid people who call me fake. I don't have the time or desire to show them that I'm wrong. Oh, and we're not talking about an instantaneous "Oh you don't implicitly trust me immediately" we're talking about people who go out of their way to point out how I am being fake, when I am not.

If you think I mean "Omg after one hangout you're not spilling your life secrets oh dear god never talk to you again" may I submit that you read it horribly wrong?

[Keld Denar]

Well, the guiness my buddy got me was in a can, so I figured that in order to remain objective, I'd have to buy american guiness in a can. Can't have more than one variable, or the equation becomes impossible to solve! Is it the country of origin? Or the can/bottle difference that is really the culprit?

Anyway...yea...

[Serpentine]

Fine, but don't be rude when someone expresses their opinion that they think that isn't a very good course. I happen to agree: I think that's a terrible idea. But your response to someone's attempt to give you good advice is even worse, and the attitude this reflects is something I urge you to work on because it is very unpleasant.

The comment about Dug seemed both apt and amusing, as well as being far from insulting (I love Dug). The one about the bank accounts was also pointed and appropriate to the context of suggesting that you have unreasonable expectations of gullibility in your friends.

If you can't take criticism, then that is the first place you most badly need to do it yourself.

[Superglucose]

Since there is reading comprehension fail going on here, let me start again:

I find that I approach everyone from a standpoint of love. I care about people as a general thing, and I care about people I'm close to.

What drives me nuts more than anything on earth is when people assume that's fake, and don't give me a chance to show that it's not. But people who don't give me a chance don't deserve a chance.

Does that clarify it? Or are my friends still gullible?

It was never a question of how gullible people are. It is simply that there are a lot of people who will never give me the chance because they see me and assume I am fake, that I am hiding something. Well I'm not, but I've made my peace: I can met people halfway (and FREQUENTLY do), and have a very good core group of friends and fringe folks. People open up to me, frequently, and that doesn't make them gullible. Nor do I expect them to be gullible, nor do I see how you could possibly get that conclusion from me saying that I hate people who accuse me of being fake.

And you're right, I'm terrible at taking criticism I don't deserve. When you rip into me for something I didn't say or something I've never done, then I end up pissed because you aren't being fair to me.

[Serpentine]

Yep, that makes more sense. It doesn't justify your assault on Pyrian, but it does seem to annul some of the things he was concerned about.

edit: No, from what I've seen here, you're just flat-out bad at taking criticism, and go out of your way to find it where there isn't any.

[Superglucose]

What "assault" on Pyrian?

[Serpentine]

This, for starters:

Screw it. I don't have to explain myself to Pyrian. He's decided what he's going to decide. Sure, it's a gross misreading of what I'm saying. Sure his manner of responding is highly insulting (especially comparing me to Dug and telling me my friends are the kind who freely give away their bank accounts). But whatever.

If you'd just said what you have now, you'd be golden, but instead you decided to go for his jugular.

[Superglucose]

In response to his second tactless joke, when the first one obviously annoyed me.

[Serpentine]

I don't have anything more to say on this subject that I haven't already, to whit: I found those cracks to be apt, amusing, pointed in their context and not nearly as insulting as you seem determined to find them. But this is a very disturbing habit you have, and you have done it repeatedly.

[Superglucose]

Fine. I defend myself overly much. Call it a product of my time on the internet.

I'm sorry Pyrian, I snapped. Can you lay off the jokes about this? They're extremely hurtful, especially the implication that my friends are gullible idiots. They happen to be some of the brightest folks around, and I don't take insults to them lightly at all (well except IonDragon).

It doesn't matter if you found them witty or apt. The first was unwelcome, and so he made another.

[Pheehelm]

Syka -- I remember regarding Oz you mentioned a time constraint on L-bombing, what with the "we're about to be long-distance." Dunno about Ex. In any case, I didn't mean to imply "if you say it within three months you're doomed/merely overwhelmed by hormones/whatever," just that, in my observations, it's somewhat earlier than usual, and he's not exactly lagging behind schedule. Looking back at my earlier post, though, I guess I came across that way. Part of it's what I asked absolmorph back there - it's easy to conclude you love someone when they're putting on their best face for you, but how you feel about the other person at the inevitable low points is just so crucial. I'm not interested in judging whether or not three months is long enough for that for an individual couple, though.

Also:


Superglucose -- What is it you do to make people happy? How soon after meeting them/how well do you know them when do you start? What constitutes not giving you a chance? Like, if you encounter someone who's generally more wary and reserved, and they pass on giving you a chance early on in the acquaintance, do you write them off right then? Or what?

[Superglucose]

It's much more general than that. There are people who hold you at bay because they're just not open people. I understand them completely. I actually have an acquaintance who's like that, and while I can't really call her a friend (because I know nothing about her, see that she's closed off) I have no problems hanging out with her and in fact enjoy doing so.

The difference is intuitive, but it comes from the people who say "Oh, he's clingy." The people who are scared off, as in, they see that I'm open and so they move away rather than just seeing that I'm open and accepting that as part of who I am.

Suffice to say there are people who are closed off, and then there are people who are closed off because they believe I am fake.

[Innis Cabal]

Some people take alot of time to open up. Some people have been burned so many times it really is just better not opening up so you don't get hurt again. Is that a good solution? Naw...not really, but its something those sorts of people have to work on. Cutting them out of your life, or calling them not a friend because they simply are unable to open to you the same way you are to them...that's more then harsh. Even if its a thing that takes a short amount of time, sometime's the time your willing to give them isn't enough. It takes years to fully get over the sorts of things that would make someone like that.

I really don't post or lurk here often, but I happened to catch this bit, and went through it. Sometimes, the best thing to do with those sorts of people are to let you know your there if they need them but back off. Don't push them out of your life. Don't take the stance their not worth your time (because that comes off more then a little arrogant). Your only going to prove them right, that you were going to hurt them at some point if your so willing to drop them like that. And that will compact both your problems and theirs.