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Thread: Haleys hard times
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2010-09-01, 07:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Haleys hard times
I was just thinking that Haley's been having some pretty rough times for the past 200 comics or so. First she had to deal with an out of control Belkar, then with a sick Belkar, and now with a way-too-lawful Durkon.
It's a rather good question which of these has been the hardest to deal with for her. On the one hand, Belkar is... well Belkar. Haley is at least strongly leaning towards the good and his evil behaviour was naturally a pain, especially with Celia hanging around. On the other hand, at least she his pragmatic and chaotic nature made it somewhat easier for her to deal with, while Durkon's extereme-lawfulness is entirely alien to her.
So, which one of her companions do you think is the biggest pain for our favourite rogue?
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2010-09-01, 08:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Toronto
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Re: Haleys hard times
I think Haley's biggest pain was Celia. She badly screwed up the Roy resurrection efforts losing his body and having him turned into a bone golem. She dragged her back to Greysky city where she renewed hostilities with Bozzok, Crystal and the Thieves Guild - all of whom are still alive and very angry with Haley. To top it all off she promised half of Haley's beloved treasure to the thieves guild - treasure she had been saving to free her father. That's to say nothing of their ladylike sniping vis-a-vis Haley's hair, clothes etc. I like Celia as a character but she was pretty much Haley's greatest obstacle thus far.
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2010-09-01, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- Hudson Valley, NY
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Re: Haleys hard times
Kissing Nale!
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2010-09-01, 08:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
Re: Haleys hard times
I'll agree on Celia. Negotiating a surrender to people that Haley had already defeated was about as boneheaded as it comes. I still can't see why Haley bothered to even listen, actually -- after all, Bozzok self-confessedly wants to kill her, and admitted to being directly responsible for her dad's fate.
Last edited by Swordpriest; 2010-09-01 at 08:57 AM.
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2010-09-01, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: Haleys hard times
She listened because she was born in Greysky City and considered the Guild to be a lesser evil than the MOBs--she didn't want to see the city plunged into chaos (well, more chaos than it was already in, anyway). Not to mention, of course, Celia carefully didn't tell her the bit about owing the Guild an enormous amount of money until after they got back to the guild house.
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2010-09-01, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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2010-09-01, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2010
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2010-09-01, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- Somewhere
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Re: Haleys hard times
Yes, that makes it 'careful and strategic interpretation of facts'.
In all honesty, Haley's early time in Greysky was probably the hardest on her.
1)She had to deal with a sick Belkar.
2)She had to deal with a pacifistic NPC, Celia, who felt she knew the circumstances better than Haley (with varying degrees of correctness in that assumption).
3)She had to deal with the fact that she was in hostile territory with dangerous foes (Bozzak, Crystal, and the rest of the thieves guild) who wanted to kill her.
4)She had no backup. Remember that Belkar is incapacitated and Celia is a pacifist.
5)She had lost possession of Roy's body.
6)Elan was not with her. This is perhaps the most important point of all.Wind & Sound Elemental Eric Greenhilt avatar by Akrim.elf
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2010-09-01, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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2010-09-01, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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2010-09-01, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- Somewhere
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Re: Haleys hard times
Wind & Sound Elemental Eric Greenhilt avatar by Akrim.elf
Bodyguard in Lix's Harem
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My Pokemon!
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2010-09-01, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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2010-09-01, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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- Michigan, USA
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Re: Haleys hard times
Haley? Having a hard time right now? Please. She's not sentenced to death in a gladiatorial arena. She's enjoying a gourmet feast as a guest of the General.
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2010-09-01, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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- UK
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Re: Haleys hard times
Yeah, look how easy everyone else had it. Roy died and Vaarsuvius got divorced by its mate.
>>softly open our mouths in the cold
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2010-09-01, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
Re: Haleys hard times
A party without a rogue is not a real party.
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2010-09-01, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Haleys hard times
Actually i think it ended up being less about the mobs and more about the fact that working with the guild made raising Roy and getting the party back together much simpler. Without the guild she would have had to hire Mercenaries to help her take Roy back; and if she could not find anyone to work with in greysky, that would mean needing to travel all the way to cliffport. However, even if she found local mercenaries to help her, she still would have to travel to cliffport to either contact Durkon or get Roy a raise... allying with the guild gave her access to the church of loki which could contact Durkon or resurrect Roy... All in all, the deal sounded like a great money/time saver
But again, as you mentioned, this was BEFORE she knew what this deal was gonna REALLY cost herLast edited by slayerx; 2010-09-01 at 02:56 PM.
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2010-09-01, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: Haleys hard times
One could argue the entire comic has been hard times for Haley:
Her father was taken prisoner before it's start and she had to earn a ridiculous sum just so the guy keeping him in jail would think of letting him go.
She lost all the gold she was saving up just for that, and then her voice.
She finally gets her voice back and a guy she loved, but oh wait, there was this war and they got separated for months.
She had to deal with being in an underground resistance fighting goblins and other resistance group.
Then she dealt with Belkar and Celia.
Oh, and as for your question about who's worst, Belkar or Durkon, it's Belkar. Haley is the one who's being troublesome. Lying which would look bad if they're caught.
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2010-09-01, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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Re: Haleys hard times
Yanno, I'll bet Roy being unavailable is making Haley flash back to when he was dead and she had to bear all the burdens of leadership which drove her nuts.
So she hates the job, doesn't feel she can do it right, but feels she has to look out for everyone anyway so she's overcompensating to the point of stupidity in a way that she feels most comfortable with. Deception.
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2010-09-01, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
Re: Haleys hard times
A party without a rogue is not a real party.
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2010-09-01, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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Re: Haleys hard times
Fortunately, the sheer insanity that an OOTS/Transformer joke would entail, blew out the pun center of my brain thus preventing me from inflicting any upon you.
And yeah, Haley should be skilled enough at sizing people up to see past Durkon's dwarven eccentricites to the unassuming badass that he is.
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2010-09-02, 02:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Haleys hard times
I think that is Durkon who is facing a hard time.
For the sake of his companions, he must keep the masquerade, but he sees as Haley took Thor's worshipping rites as getting as drunk as possible. And he is getting pissed while haley is just high.
The lizzard put it clear: He is sruggling to mantain the party's HP ballance at positive!
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2010-09-02, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Re: Haleys hard times
I'm sorry, I disagree. The current disagreement with Durkon is completely Haley's fault. The group is being forced to pander to her inability to trust seemingly decent people who may be willing to help them.
But you are largely right: whatever these doubts, Haley is seriously overplaying her hand. Mistrust is not such a blanket term that if you meet Charles Manson it makes sense to tell him you're Canadian when you're actually American. Yes: you don't want to tell him your street adress or your bank account number. But there's no sense lying about details that the subject can't make much use of. It's just going to make Manson's reaction unpredictable if you tell him the above lie and he later sees you with a US passport. In order to make the best play, you have to make your lies very small and very vital, and otherwise tell the truth.What shall we do to fill the empty spaces
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2010-09-02, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: Haleys hard times
Er, Haley has very good reasons for distrusting Tarquin. Aside from his pushing her out the window, there's the fact that he serves a Red Dragon and helps run what appears to be an evil empire (which she knows openly uses slavery), she knows that his last wife died of "mysterious circumstances" (which is pretty suspicious if you're smarter than Elan), and for unknown reasons he's refusing to offer them whatever help he might be able to until after this festival. Plus she also knows he raised Nale, and if she were around when Tarquin explained his backstory, she'd know he openly admits to raising him to be ruthless and efficient, and that Tarquin himself came to this region of the world in order to conquer a kingdom for himself.
Yeah, there's plenty of reasons not to trust Tarquin and friends. Trouble is, between Elan's obliviousness and Durkon's lawfulness and limited information on the matters that point to his untrustworthiness, two of the others around her don't seem to realize it (what V thinks of the matter is unknown at this point).
ZevoxLast edited by Zevox; 2010-09-02 at 10:46 AM.
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2010-09-02, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Haleys hard times
So what? just because she doesn't trust them does not mean lying to them is the best way to deal with them.
i might ask what Roy would do in this situation. I doubt he would trust them anymore than Haley does but i don't think he would try to keep together a lie because of it... He told them that they should remain good guests until they could get the info they needed about Girard... LYING is NOT a part of being a good guest... Roy also knows well enough that Elan is too stupid to be trusted to maintain a lie (he's already slipping up) and that Durkon has serious issues with lying and may even have difficulty fooling people with mistruths(or coming up with convincing lies should he try); so the chances of getting caught in their lie is pretty good and THAT would jeopardize their attempts to get info on Girard
Frankly i think the only bit of info they should keep hidden, if anything, is only roy and belkar since those two are effectively at Tarquin's mercy
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2010-09-02, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Haleys hard times
This sums it up for me. Durkon's already told Malack he came to the palace to enquire about a few prisoners. Where's the harm in just saying, "Oh! Never mind then. These are the folks I was looking for; they're my friends."
The fact that they have lied is surely going to bite them on the ass later on. Makes for a good story and all of that...Last edited by Nimrod's Son; 2010-09-02 at 12:13 PM.
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2010-09-02, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Poland
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Re: Haleys hard times
Haley hasn't been worse off than most other Order members since the Azure City arc. Yes, a lot of stuff happened to her. But in comparison, Roy got killed, V made a deal with the Lower Planes and got divorced and Belkar got hit with Mark of Justice - the difference in Belkar's case being that he deserved it.
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2010-09-02, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Haleys hard times
Indeed, one thing i've brought in the past is what will happen when Durkon is asked about the prisoners he came looking for... Thanks to Haley's lies he can't mention that he came for Elan, Haley and V... He would have to try and work is way around Roy and Belkar, but how long can he keep up that line of mistruths before he actually has to name them and thus link Roy and Belkar to himself.
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2010-09-05, 06:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
Re: Haleys hard times
But look at it this way. The way the Order rolls, they're lucky that the EoB doesn't want to kill (most) of them out of hand. The fact that Tarquin is even a little willing to help is better then they could expect, and a reason for some level of trust. As for why he will only tell after the festival, I always assumed that it was simply because Tarquin wanted an excuse to keep his recently discovered son around for his party, not because of dangerous ulterior motives.
A party without a rogue is not a real party.
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2010-09-05, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: Haleys hard times
Er, what? And what exactly have they done that would cause that reaction? The Empire of Blood knows basically nothing about them, and outside of entering the place without the proper papers - which Durkon proved was easily fixed anyway - they've done nothing that would draw any ire from the nation or its leaders.
No, no it is not, especially considering he is Elan's father.
A foolish assumption to make considering the rest of the reasons to be suspicious and wary of him that there are.
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"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2010-09-20, 04:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Haleys hard times
Tarkin was eager to help, and don't kill Elan, nor his friends the very same moment he recognices his son.
He will try to make profit of him? Sure. But I think he will avoid making any harm to progeny. And for everything he knows, Haley could be bearing a little Tarkin, so she can be safe, too.
In other hand, Durkon has the sympaty of the Lizarfolk Cleric, so I think that in a battle, those two would avoid fighting each other, or if forced, end in a chivalrous fight and posibily won't kill themselves, but leave to 0HP and let the other flee or try to convince to defect to the other side (I had one of these in a game)