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2010-10-09, 01:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
I donno, boss, it seems pretty simple to me: you can take the class again and again. Stop overthinking it! There's nothing complex about it, and I think you're misusing the word elegant there. My version is elegant. Yours is simple and practical, and, if I may say so, quite foot-in-the-door.
Also, have you considered that many DMs force their players to take all levels of a PrC to prevent dipping? I don't want it to have the vibe of a 5 level class, I want it to be a class you can take multiple times.
Does anybody else have input on the 5 level vs. 1 level class issue? I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this.
Fraction? What fraction?Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-10-09, 01:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
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2010-10-09, 01:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- Not in a human colon
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2010-10-09, 01:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Being able to take one level 5 times doesn't really seem consistent with the other classes. So, I'm going to vote for 5 just for the sake of consistency.
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2010-10-09, 01:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- Not in a human colon
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2010-10-09, 01:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
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2010-10-09, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- In the shadows Waiting...
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2010-10-09, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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2010-10-09, 01:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- Not in a human colon
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Oooooh.... you're good.
Eh. Meh.
I know, but... I think I might. If another chimes in against the one level, I'll change it. Normally I'm against the democratization of art & sciences and such (Enemy of the People is an excellent play, by the way), but in this case, it's a community project, and its success based on how many people like it, so I'd have to bow to the common crowd. >.<Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-10-09 at 01:56 AM.
Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-10-09, 02:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Are there any abilities in D&D based around gathering knowledge? That seems to be what Illurien is based around but she doesn't really have any abilities based on that.
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2010-10-09, 02:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- Not in a human colon
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2010-10-09, 02:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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2010-10-09, 02:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
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2010-10-09, 02:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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2010-10-09, 02:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
It's implied in her fluff that her int-draining attack causes her to gain the memories of her victims. Maybe something can be done with that? Dark Knowledge (Archivist) might also be a good fight, as might some kind of ability that lets her use her Knowledge in place of, say, a Spellcraft roll to identify a spell, or maybe a Disguise roll to impersonate a noble or something.
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2010-10-09, 02:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- On the attic
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Might be able to start working this again, but right now university and approaching examinations keep me pretty busy. Maybe after them I could try something.
Evolved Undead:
# As it seems to be already said, it might be easier to change it to 5 level PCR, for the bab and saves particularly. However, these an't big deal, as it works well the way it already is.
# Evolved Flight: How about if the Undead is already capaple of flight, that was not equal to land speed and average maneuverability? So maybe just change text for double flight speed and one step increasement on maneuverability?
# Evolved Hunt: Same here, what if the Undead already had burrow and swim speed from another source? Nothing, or speed improvement?
With that all said I think the class is really good.Peace is a lie; there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
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2010-10-09, 02:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- Not in a human colon
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Never? Are you kidding? It's, like, the only cool prepared caster!
Anyways, the Marrutact had Dark Knowledge essentially identical to it. Also, knowledge devotion is always good.
Trenelus: Hmmm... well, you're not likely to encounter that, for the flight. Either way, it shouldn't be broken... but I'll specify on the climb/burrow.Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-10-09, 02:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
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2010-10-09, 02:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- Not in a human colon
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Well, okay, granted the only 2 good things in heroes of horror are its base classes, but the dread necromancer is cool, why can't the archivist be cool? It's for all of us who want to play a grim scholar, as opposed to a "I throw my fireball!" scholar.
Anyways, that's all irrelevant: check out the marrutact's knowledge abilities, check out knowledge devotion.Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-10-09, 03:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Netherlands
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Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
“Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!”
Lewis Carroll
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2010-10-09, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Well, I liked fiend blooded. The only problem is the entry requirements which don't matter in my games (All skills are considered class skills. I'm the one that makes the sheets so anything that makes the job easier is going to be implemented)
Doesn't matter though as I don't have any spontaneous casters that would take the class.
I've looked at the marrutact's ability and will look at knowledge devotion tomorrow. I really need to get to bed. Too many episodes of mythbusters followed by Bender's game (which was pretty funny)
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2010-10-09, 03:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- I live in Alabama
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Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Okay, I guess the water elemental is finished. I'm not sure how good or balance it is; but at this point it just needs to be fixed not completed. It's really late and it probably shows but I'm going to sleep now...
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2010-10-09, 04:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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- England
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Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Eh? Which ones specifically?
# All other creatures keep their alignment sub types, even if their alignment changes, or is different from the begining. Titans should too retain that.
# What languages they speak? These should be specified in the Titanic Body feature. Perhaps Common, Giant and the third depending on your starting alignment (good = Celestial, neutral = Dragonic & evil = Abyssal)?
# How about making a list or table of ability incresements. It would help a lot to keep track of them, especially if would start with higher level character.
Look at Pit Fiend or Fire Giant, for example.
# Swat: ok, but you shoud maybe rename it, like "Give ya' a LIFT"
# Skin of the Titan: Might be nitpicking, but usually only creatures that are specifically resistant to magic should have SR: 10+hd+ability score. However, as Titan gains only +4 to Cha, it does not seem to be really unbalancing.
# Titan Battle Style: +HD to damage seems quite a lot, with that ½hd strength bonus particularly big, with possible high multiplier crit weapon.
When you combine that with feature to penetrate DRs it seems unreasonably high. The damage alone should make it easy to cut throught from anything one might need to. Consider removing it.
Or perhaps replacing it with feature to use both melee abd SLAs on the same round. Perhaps when using battle style weapon and scoring critical (even on threath?) Titan could use one of it's SLAs as swift action? Ability score/Fixed times per day? Maybe limit what spells could be used this way?
# Action economy starts to important at higher levels, and as combat healing is often seeing as a waste of time, maybe Titan could be allowed to use his cure spells as swift action, but only when using them for himself? Call that "Just a Flesh Wound" or something.
# And the capstone, Suprime Titanic Magic: I think with the current wording, it does nothing, as you have no SLAs with 1/round limitation. So it at least needs cleared out what it does.
# Titan magic: These are much, much easier to read now, good work.
Consider possible changes (nothing especially wrong, just suggestions):
Remove Curse loses it's point with greater dispel magic, so how about upgrading it to Break Enchantment, for some use at higher levels. Maybe even cutting on the uses, as even 1 day/ for every 2 HD should be more than enough (I hope, as then you are in big troubles). Same goes for Bestow Curse, about the uses.
Levitate might be able to switch for Fly
Firestorm should be cut down, to at most 1 day/ every 2 HD, maybe even to every 4 HD? Titan is already cable to do alot of damage.
Word of Chaos might be increased to 1 day/ every 3-5 HD, and make it work for even non-chaotic Titans. Compere to Pit fiend and Balor, for example.
Maze could use few extra uses, for 1 day/ every 5-6 HD?
Meteor Swarm for 1 day/ every 5-7 HD?
Greater Restoration/Crushing Hand for 1 day/ every 4-7 HD?
Also upped Gate uses and added the proviso from Wish SLAs saying if you want to use the Calling power rather than the travel one they have to pay the XP cost.
I also reduced their Con bonus to alternate with Cha because they get enough already.
Hope that find any use for this. Overall, I like it.
Anything else anyone?
Last edited by Kobold-Bard; 2010-10-09 at 04:14 AM.
Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2010-10-09, 09:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Is there one for the Tarrasque?
Fighter: "I can kill someone in a turn."
Cleric: "I can kill someone in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill someone before my turn."
Bard: "I can make three idiots kill people for me."
Avatar by MethosH
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
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2010-10-09, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
My vote goes for the 5-level PrC too. If nothing else, 99.9% of DMs I know play with swift/immediate as they're considered base rules but only a very small percentage (<10%) use fractional BAB/saves unless it's gestalt. So by taking the template 5 times you're essentially uber-boosting saves.
Also, just an idea, perhaps give it access to more powerful abilities depending on what level it's on? Say, it gets access to the lower tier abilities at level 1-2, moderate at 3-4 and the uber awesome ones at 5?
Oh and I'll update the Soulspark with a non-MoI ability shortly. I'm not entirely sure what to do about it though, since I'd like it to get effective Incarnate levels but can't, so maybe something like "It gains X ability or an effective Incanate level equal to its HD-2" to allow for people both with and without the MoI book?Dragonborn Gnome avatar by the ever-lovely Derjuin!
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2010-10-09, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
- Location
- Wichita, Kansas
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2010-10-09, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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2010-10-09, 10:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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- England
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Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Re: Soul Manifestation duration. You say it is Cha Mod long, but is that measured in rounds/minutes/hours etc. ?
Also, its a non-crunch thing but are you naked when you transform, or do you get some lovely blue, incarnum-y garments?Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2010-10-09, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Ah I knew I missed something. I'm not sure really, I was gonna make it rounds but that seems a bit short for interaction purposes. For combat and whatnot, it seems about right, but for actually roleplaying ... Perhaps minutes?
Heh, that's a good call. I'll add something about that
Edit: Okay, I've added those things in and made the duration minutes. Also one other large change, since it was really bugging me whenever I really thought about it - the Soulspark no longer gets a consitution score and instead replaces anything con-based with charisma. After all, it's a ball of soul-based incarnum energy, I can't see it having that great a constitution.Last edited by Niezck; 2010-10-09 at 10:26 AM.
Dragonborn Gnome avatar by the ever-lovely Derjuin!
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2010-10-09, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
Re: [3.5]Improved Monster Classes- Still Alive, and taking requests!
Wow, I've missed a lot since dropping out of an earlier thread.
Not sure how to get back into the swing of things. Two threads to read through & hard to track what's already been done.
If anyone wants input, let me know. In the meantime, assuming nobody's stepped in & finished them, I might finish the Giants.
At a glance, though, doesn't this allow too much frontloading of Cha?
I put all my points in Cha, then get some Cha boosting magic items for...
- HP
- Fort saves.
- Deflection bonus to AC
- Soul Blast Damage
- Bonus to incarnum abilities or duration for transforming.
If I wanted to abuse this, I could use a feat for Force of Personality; replace my Wis stat with Cha for will saves.
It's kind of weird that the Soulspark gets Diplomacy as a class skill when it can't really communicate until 6th level.
Also, can't help but wonder - could you elaborate on the magic item slots a soulspark has available to it? The lack of a body could be particularly crippling, given the importance of gear to PCs.Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-10-09 at 02:44 PM.