A Duel to the death!

[Ralasha]

Just to screw me. blahblahblah is what I read. In any case, the character I made is not some horribly abused over the top one gun character. I didn't make it ridiculous. I made it this way, but kept it balanced.

[candycorn]

Just to screw me. blahblahblah is what I read. In any case, the character I made is not some horribly abused over the top one gun character. I didn't make it ridiculous. I made it this way, but kept it balanced.

Caster level 30, and you don't think it's imbalanced? You're taking this way too personally. My statement of your character being against the rules is now a direct attack on you? No.

Disregarding that rule is massively imbalanced. I've shown 2 seperate examples of how feat stacking can be horribly abused, and neither is really that hard to do.

I could have said...

Spellthief 4 / Beguiler 1 / Sorceror 1 / Wizard 9
and
Savage Bard 5 / Ur priest 10.

This would be (with Master Spellthief Feat, and your illumian trick)

Spellthief: 18+15= CL 33
Beguiler: 18+15= CL 33
Sorceror: 18+15= CL 33
Wizard: 18+15= CL 33
Savage Bard: 18+15 = CL 33
Ur Priest: 10+15+155= CL 180

Do you think that any rule interpretation that allows the above to be balanced?

All other classes are being used exactly as they are listed, all other feats exactly as they are intended. The only thing that's being twisted is?

Your spell-stacking thing. With Ur Priest, CL 180, I can use Miracle for an Owl's Insight, and get +90 wisdom. Now, with a wisdom of only 24? I now have 114. I get that DMM Persisted (also easy enough to do) and now?

Spell DC's are now 62+spell level.
Bonus spells for Wisdom are now:
{table=header]Level 1 | Level 2 | Level 3 | Level 4 | Level 5 | Level 6 | Level 7 | Level 8 | Level 9
13 | 13 | 13 | 13 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 11[/table]

You're saying it's balanced because, under the absolute tamest situation it can be used in (yours), it takes 2 high power caster classes and doubles the power of all of their spells. However, in 5 minutes of actually looking at classes and setting it up, I've increased caster power of 5 classes by over double, and the 6th by a factor of 12.

I'm saying it's not balanced, for that same reason. And that's not even getting into intelligent spell choice (as I pointed out, several spells are not capped. How about Spell Resistance? The above character would have an SR of 192 from the strong class, and SR 45 from the weak class).

No, the ruling you're defending is a Bad Idea.

[candycorn]

DMs have final say. They said it's good, it's good. Or are you having problems with your imminent character death against my caster?

...lolwtf. Was I sane at the time? No, that's not going to work. For one, I don't think you can take any feat more than once, regardless. Only feats that have the line "You may take this feat more than once", obviously, can be taken more than once.

Please consider said ruling void, and find me the link so I can scrub it like the insanity it is.

I'll be more than happy to face you again some time, now that it's painfully obvious that it WAS a DM oversight. Provide a new, and legal character, and I'll test it out.

Part of the reason I test characters is to refine them. I can only consider them to be a legal refinement if they're against a legal character. That's why I check to make sure things are legal. Not to screw you. Not because I have a personal vendetta, or a need to win. The reason I made Betty Mk 2 was because I was unable to effectively attack another charisma build in a previous match. I pointed things out, I considered things, and then I went to the drawing board and improved.

If I don't have something similar here, there's no way for me to improve. In that case, there's no point.

[Ralasha]

Bwahaha. She's a legal character. All components of her construction are tested. It's not imbalanced. It's a monk with swords. Or I can make Lucky. The luckiest person you'll ever meet. Made almost entirely from the complete scoundrel.

[candycorn]

Fair enough. Same arena?

Init:(1d20+9)[23]

[Ralasha]

Initiative: (1d20+9)[27]
I move towards you 50'.
My character:

Spoiler

Show

Bewa
F CN Elan (Abberation) Complex (See below), Level 15, Init +9, HP 140/140, DR DR: 10/SR: 30, Speed 50
AC 38, Touch 25, Flat-footed 33, Fort +11, Ref +14, Will +6, Base Attack Bonus 18/+13/+8/+3, Action Points PP: 10
[B]Gems +3 Spiked Chain (x2) (+29/+29/+27/+27/+31/+26/+21/+16/+31/+31 (2d4+13, (17-20x2))
20' Normal aura (20d4+130, )
move up to 10' Standing Aura (20d4+130, )
+5 Celestial Armor, TWD (+10 Armor, +3 Shield, +5 Dex, +10 Misc)
Abilities Str 25, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 12
Condition Permanent: See invisibility, Jump, Swim, Spiderclimb, Silence, Featherfall, Water Breathing

[candycorn]

So, to O10.

Sight modes? And I assume you're living.

I manifest (free action) in B10.
I then activate a supernatural ability (standard action),
and move to H10.

I appear to be a ghostly halfling. A glowing heavy shield is readied on one arm, and a flail is equipped on the other.

Your turn.

EDIT: I have a gaze attack. Each round, at the start of your turn, you'll need to make a DC 32 Fort save or take 2d10 damage and 1d4 charisma damage.

[Ralasha]

I move to M10 as a free action and I activate an aura. You see the air around me become somehow more solid. I'm blind, no, I won't have to make any saves.

*edit* technically blind. I can still see, just not in a way that will allow gaze attacks or any other visual based attacks, spells, or spell-like abilities to have any effect.

Abberant: Eyeless, gives blind sight in place of real sight. It does have drawbacks, but not many. Being able to take said feats cost me a +1 LA.

Even then, if it allows for SR, it would have to beat my SR.

[candycorn]

Question: I don't see maelstrom adept on the list of approved classes. Can you show the approval? It took me a bit to find it.

Oh, and none of my abilities allow SR. They're all Supernatural.

[Ralasha]

sure, let me search the thread. It's in there.

[candycorn]

Also:

Standing Storm: The maelstrom adept may attempt to focus the chaos within itself outwards, creating a barrier outwards from the character equal to its melee weapon range. This barrier deals damage equal to its melee damage each round to every character that enters or passes through it. All characters, friendly or hostile take damage while in this area. This damage is not effected by spell resistance or damage reduction. Thus a character with five attacks with a longsword would deal 5d8 damage to every individual, or object, ignoring hardness. For purposes of determining maximum damage, apply maximum number of attacks, such as with a monks flurry of blows. If it has any enhancements or enchantments this damage is applied as though the adept had attacked and hit every time. This effect does not cause critical hits. This requires a Concentration Check DC:15. The Maelstrom adept may keep this ability functioning for a number of rounds equal to its dexterity modifier with no ill effects, after twice its dexterity modifier it becomes fatigued, after 3 times its dexterity modifier it becomes exhausted and must stop, or fall unconscious the next round.

This ability didn't receive a type. Is it Extraordinary, like the other abilities of the class?

[Ralasha]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=816
That one is... you know... I don't remember. But yeah, sure, Ex.

You may want to read the improved version of it. As I am level 10 in that PrC.

Living Maelstrom: The maelstrom adept is no longer merely an adept, it is a maelstrom. Its standing storm extends out to double the characters melee distance, and any opponent moving within this distance of the character is subject to attacks of opportunity. The character is able to move 10 feet on any turn, as the sudden movement ability. When the maelstrom does not invoke the standing storm it is limited to it's melee distance as a radius, as a permanent effect that can be suppressed or resumed at will. It remains suppressed or on until the character reverses the action. This ability functions even while unconscious, and the standing storm no longer tires the character. It may, in addition, move and attack normally while using the standing storm.

This means that when I move, I can become tired from using it. And the radius shrinks to my melee distance. If I stand still and concentrate, it goes full bore, and I am not fatigued by it.

Wait, you said the walls are ice? >.> They are chipping away slowly. Unless you decide to make them something else instead. Like, hazy glassteel.

[candycorn]

Well, I agree with your original opinion (on the probably not), but it was, so let's see what I can do.
Reasoning: Almost every ability in D&D either allows a save, or requires an attack roll. Yours does neither.

Demanifest (ethereal plane only now).

Move adjacent to you. While ethereal, only abjurations, gaze attacks, and force effects extend from the material plane to the ethereal.

Done.

[Ralasha]

When you move next to me , I use sudden movement and am 5' from you. I wait. hold on. I think my weapon crystals deal with that stuff, hold on. Ghost touch will hit you?

TRUEDEATH CRYSTAL
Price (Item Level): 1,000 gp (4th)
(least); 5,000 gp (9th) (lesser);
10,000 gp (12th) (greater)
Body Slot: — (weapon crystal)
Caster Level: 5th
Aura: Faint; (DC 17) evocation
Activation: —
Weight: —
This amethyst is carved in the shape of a
humanoid skull.
Clerics craft truedeath crystals to aid them*
selves and others in sending undead to
their final rest.
Least: A weapon with this crystal
attached deals an extra 1d6 points of
damage to undead.
Lesser: As the least crystal, and the
weapon also functions as a ghost touch
weapon (DMG 224).
Greater: As the lesser crystal, and the
weapon can deliver sneak attacks and
critical hits against undead as if they were
living creatures.

[candycorn]

When you move next to me , I use sudden movement and am 5' from you. I wait. hold on. I think my weapon crystals deal with that stuff, hold on. Ghost touch will hit you?

When I am manifested, yes. At that point, I'm incorporeal. However, Ghost Touch does not affect Ethereal creatures. When I am not manifested, only force effects, gaze attacks, abjuration effects, and effects which specifically state that they affect ethereal creatures do so.

[Ralasha]

Well damn, we should run these in the tower together. Heh, we compliment and offset each others strengths. So, how would I go about hitting an ethereal creature? I'm not going to change that durring the duel, but it's a weakness that must be dealt with swiftly.

[candycorn]

I wouldn't want to run in a dungeon with that PrC, no offense. As I said, I have issues with its level of balance. Namely the auto-hit with a dozen attacks, no roll, no save, no SR. There's no effect in the game I can think of that does all three of those, which means that it's likely intentional, and something that should be carefully considered before altering. That would be my PEACH.

To be more specific:

Spoiler

Show

It allows you to deal (Str mod) x (number of attacks) automatically, and when combined with the blinky, prevents pretty much any effective melee engagement. That means if I have 10 attacks and a 10 str mod (easy), that's 100 damage, no save/sr/roll. Just automatic. Totemist, Dervish, anything that boosts attack numbers? Imbalance it.

That said, if you make your weapons force effects, it would take care of your situation. And if I'd seen that on the sheet, I'd have gone through the floor to block line of effect to it. Ethereal creatures are devilishly difficult to hit.

There's a Complete Psion PsyWar power that does that, if I remember correctly.

[Ralasha]

I stand there, crouched, and wait. Forever. Oh, and thank you. I'll use the advice. I'll allow DR. versus each hit made by the aura. so if you have DR 15, chances are that if any damage gets through it's going to be 1 or 2. At least with my build. On the other hand, I could make it so that the DR is applied as though the aura were 1 attack. Or, I could make it so that half of the DR rounded up takes effects, when applicable.

[candycorn]

Very patient for a chaotic creature.

Move adjacent to you.

[Ralasha]

I wait. Nothing else to do for now.

I could make it so that half of the DR rounded up takes effects, when applicable.

thoughts?

[candycorn]

By the way, you may wish to consider Karmic strike. Gets you more AoO's.

Next round.

Free Action: Supernatural ability

Spoiler

Show

Divine Strength

Manifest (free action).
Power attack for 16.

Smite Attack: (1d20+54)[57]
Damage: (1d6+47)[50] (+10 more if you are good aligned)
This attack ignores any and all miss chances.

Attack: (1d20+32)[41]
Damage: (1d6+47)[50]

EDIT: I would either go with 1 attack auto hits, or up to 1 attack per class level are rolled for. Allowing half DR isn't meaningful, when so few creatures have above DR 10 anyway.

[Ralasha]

you manifested within my aura. You take (20d4+130)[177]+(10d6)[38] damage. I'm bleeding psychic energy. and I attack:

attack(1d20+31)[41] 48+critsx2
confirm(1d20+31)[45](2d4+13)[17]+(1d6)[4]
attack(1d20+31)[37]
confirm(1d20+31)[51](2d4+13)[17]+(1d6)[5]
attack(1d20+31)[44]
confirm(1d20+31)[39](2d4+13)[19]+(1d6)[4]

attack(1d20+29)[34] 46+critsx2
confirm(1d20+29)[44](2d4+13)[17]+(1d6)[4]
attack(1d20+29)[43]
confirm(1d20+29)[35](2d4+13)[16]+(1d6)[6]

attack(1d20+27)[34] 44+critsx2
confirm(1d20+27)[45](2d4+13)[19]+(1d6)[6]
attack(1d20+27)[40]
confirm(1d20+27)[34](2d4+13)[17]+(1d6)[2]

attack(1d20+26)[43] 43+critsx2
confirm(1d20+26)[38](2d4+13)[16]+(1d6)[1]
attack(1d20+21)[38] 38+critsx2
confirm(1d20+21)[30](2d4+13)[18]+(1d6)[2]
attack(1d20+16)[24]33+critsx2
confirm(1d20+16)[21](2d4+13)[17]+(1d6)[4]

I could also give it reflex saves versus each attack the aura performs vs DC 10+Class Level+Dex Mod.

also: link to betty please? You have an advantage in knowing what my character is capable of.

[candycorn]

Reflex saves would be good. If the ability offered a reflex save at 10+Class Level + (one ability), then it would be more balanced. If you want to limit the ability, I'd be happy to go again vs.

As is, every attack missed, by a lot, but the no save ability would have killed a d12 HD character with a con modifier of +6.

And Betty Mk 2 is posted in the recruiting thread, same as your character.

Divine Shield is active, increasing the shield bonus to Armor Class by 22, which applies to touch attacks as well.