Build-A-Baddie Workshop

[playswithfire]

a) Deformed voice and I agree he should be able, with a degree of effort, to improve it if he chooses
b) Just likes kids

I added the necessary sources to use Draug, though adding BoVD would give him some interesting spell selections and the drug agony (liquid pain) could tie in well with the beatings of those who deal to kids.

[Silverscale]

a) Deformed voice and slightly deformed body (No Quasi Modo here)
b) Just likes kids because of his back-ground

[flabort]

a) Deformed voice and I agree he should be able, with a degree of effort, to improve it if he chooses

qft, emphasis added.

[Nopraptor]

a) deformed voice and face
b) just likes kids

[centuriancode]

OK, so we're at Deformed Voice (with minor additions to body/face) leads Deformed Body 7:2.

Also, Just Likes Kids leads They Saved Him 7:1 (one vote was only about deformity).

Unless there are stupidly large numbers of votes before the end of tonight, it looks like those are our answers.

[flabort]

I don't see 9 voters, just 8.
Is the 9th voter for the first one where I quoted playswithfire? I'd already voted.
That makes the voice vote 6:2, while the kids issue remains 7:1.

Just to clear that up.

[playswithfire]

So, we're going with deformed voice with him able to improve it after some amount of effort and no kids saving his life; just something in his experiences/personality makes him like kids.

Any other issues that should be put to a vote?

I'll try to incorporate these results into Draug on Friday morning.

[Iituem]

Tentative vote:
a) Deformed voice, mild disfigurement (see below)
b) No kids saving him, product of his upbringing and status (see below)


For convenience I'm going to refer to the bugbear as Draug. I'd just like to put in a perspective check, but before that:

On the subject of vocal disfigurement (which is awesome, combined with the general fire disfigurement), consider an alternative to just 'robot voice' that gives the right feeling. Instead of a harsh robotic voice, perhaps the amulet of speech simply creates a normal voice that is incapable of variance in pitch and intonation. Everything he says no matter how angry, impassioned or eloquent, has to come out in the same quiet, measured monotone.

Perspective check time. So the guy's a villain of the criminal type. Why crime over another career? There are a few good (well, not morally) reasons for getting into crime. Perhaps you might have scores to settle. Perhaps you're just greedy and the money is better. Perhaps you're attracted to the lifestyle. Or (particularly with ex-army bandits or enforcers) maybe it's the only thing you know how to do.

If we take Playswithfire's proposed backstory as a base; As a matter of survival, Draug gets into crime on the low end as a lookout, simply because it's the only real source of money in his neighbourhood that doesn't involve him being exploited too badly. Draug proves himself capable enough and gets to know the local thugs, making friends. He gets more involved partly because he's good at it and partly for mixed reasons; more money, keeping in good stead and (importantly) prestige and respect in the neighbourhood.

Why care for children? Well, maybe it's not even as cliched as being an orphan and caring for kids who are like he was. Maybe it's just that he cares about the people in his turf. Obviously not enough to stop selling them drugs or acting as an enforcer, but in his mind he still thinks of them as 'his' people and would want to protect them. Where the kids are concerned, they look up to him as protecting them from the other gangs in other neighbourhoods and he responds, enjoying the attention and taking on the position of a role model.

Draug's honest enough with himself to know that he's not a good man, and that this life will probably wind up with him dead or broken if he doesn't eventually get out of it. He doesn't want kids following in his footsteps because it'll turn out bad for them, and he wants to see kids getting out of the neighbourhood and bettering themselves. Maybe this applies to everyone from his turf, he just doesn't have as much sympathy for adults who've had their chances.

Draug's doing well, and he's aware that both his well-being and his status in the community depend on him maintaining his business. He won't flinch from beating up competitors, intimidation or, as the need permits, guile and diplomacy - after all, he is still a smooth talker. On the other hand, he doesn't like the idea of losing his role model status - he won't do any of the more violent actions around children, and flat out polices his own turf to make sure nothing untoward happens to 'his' kids. If something should, chances are he will unleash his own personal brand of hell on the perpetrators.



More, just because I'm feeling in the mood for writing this stuff up. Continue to treat as a suggestion.

Draug's been doing well, and he's looking to stay well. That might not mean displacing his boss; and he has both an immediate gang boss and the men who run the supply to deal with if that's the case. What it does mean is taking care of competition and other threats. One thing Draug really doesn't like is the involvement of magic in the gang fights - especially wizards.

The last gang war Draug was in, spellcasters got brought into the mix. Apparently the suppliers wanted to push a better deal from their end and hired outside muscle. Things splintered between the different gangs on who accepted it and who didn't and everything broke out into open warfare. During the fights, Draug got hit bad by a fireball from one of the wizards on the suppliers' side and was laid up for almost a week recovering, but the flames burned out half the hair on his face and head; he shaves the other half now to keep it even. Worse, the fire damaged his voice so he could barely speak and had to croak out barely audible instructions in great pain.

Draug helped lead the gang on a return strike, killing many of the enemy gang members and capturing the wizard who scarred him. Before he died, Draug was able to 'convince' the wizard to enchant an amulet to return Draug's voice to him. Unfortunately for the wizard, Draug had a sense of humour and cut out his tongue, had it dried and threaded together and uses it as the thong on which the amulet hangs around his neck. Unfortunately, torturing a wizard into producing a magic item for you is not a reliable assurance of quality; the amulet works but his voice is now a permanent, unwavering monotone. This can at times actually be even more intimidating than his former roaring bellow.

[Rob Roy]

A) Messed up voice
b) Just likes kids.

[Tvtyrant]

A) Messed up voice
B) He is teaching urchins to pick pocket, but actually has good intentions. He believes that they will need those skills to survive in life, so he is teaching them the skills to survive without needing to rely on anyone.

[centuriancode]

Alright, the voting is closed, and it is settled.

a) Draug (a.k.a Darth Bugbard) has a disfigured voice. He can only rasp and wheeze unintelligibly without the use of a magical amulet provided to him by the gnome he works for. With that magical amulet he can replicate normal speech, but in an unvaried and dangerously calm tone. On another setting, it resembles Vader. Go for your life.

b) He was not saved by orphans. He is simply protective of his patch, and clings to the code he has established for himself as part of that, which says that kids are not to be sold drugs/etc. Woe betide whoever forgets that rule. This is part of his strongly Lawful Evil alignment.

Sorry this dragged out longer than expected, real life happened. Painful, but true.

[Nopraptor]

so next baddie?
anyone has an idea to develop?

[Ajadea]

Well...may use it, may not, but it can't hurt.

That said: Go wild on point buy, Gestalt, Tiefling or Half-Fiend Human. Fluff-wise, determined, loyal, slight mothering tendencies (yes really). Should be edging slowly towards BS-insane as levels increase. Must be able to pass as a human. Crunch-wise, one of the sides has to be predominantly a spellcaster of some sort, and the character has to be self-sufficient enough to survive even if you didn't consider spellcasting. In addition, has to be able to wade into battle his/herself.

Statistically, has to have high enough mental statistics/manipulation-related skills (Int/Wis/Cha) to be respected by everything from cults of mind flayers to adult dragons to ice devils without Diplomacy cheese, and to come up with and execute a planned overthrow of one of the strongest world powers currently in existence (the sort of people who can, under great effort, summon astral devas in a pinch in a world where epic legendary battles are like a level 8 Rogue vs a Level 6 Sorcerer, plus a whole bunch of levels 1-3 soldiers)

Most of the supporting characters are written. Wisdom and Charisma are more important than Intelligence, there are other people to deal with that.

[centuriancode]

Build-A-Baddie Workshop

I was sitting at my desk the other day trying to design a compelling villain for my players, and not just the villain, but all his cronies.

So, that was the initial brief, and Darth Bugbard was

the Bugbear lieutenant of [Arathnos'] Gnomish drug lord

With that in mind, I think the tiefling idea sounds good. After all, what sort of decent recurring villain with an army of minions has only one good lieutenant (even Xykon has the support casters and the demon roaches)? Thus, if Darth Bugbard is the aster of the streets, then the tiefling could be the behind the shadows lieutenant. The one who gets sent to talk to bosses in other cities, the one who explains the state of things to new politicians and police comissioners, the one who takes care of "special" problems. For that, he would need stealth instead of Bugbard's buffing abilities, and magic where Bugbard is a combat bruiser.

Statistically, has to have high enough mental statistics/manipulation-related skills (Int/Wis/Cha) to be respected by everything from cults of mind flayers to adult dragons to ice devils

. I advise against making the tiefling quite as powerful as Ajadea suggests, but something deeply terrifying and difficult for the players to deal with will still need a bit of oomph.

Any thoughts?

[Ajadea]

My original suggestion was designed as a BBEG, following none and having everyone bow to it sort of character.

Redesigned as a drug lord's lieutenant, I would probably change the character to be a foil to Draug. Draug's an enforcer, so a behind-the-scenes manipulater and con-artist works better. In combat, Draug buffs, debuffs, and does melee combat, so a Swift Hunter combo or a beguiler should probably be the other side of the gestalt. Tiefling Factotum/Chameleon//Something, with ranks in Knowledge(local) and maxed out Forgery, Sense Motive, Diplomacy, maybe ranks in Appraise?

Personality-wise, if we have a Hitman with a Heart of Gold mixed with Satisfied Street Rat, we could use this character as a darker foil. I was thinking maybe Dark Action Girl meets Manipulative Bitch, with a hefty dose of simply not caring about people.

[Nopraptor]

Ok, sounds good, I suggest a female, for anyone who knows The Night Angel Trilogy I suggest the kind of devision that the sakage has, and have this baddie as an evil momma K

[Fable Wright]

My original suggestion was designed as a BBEG, following none and having everyone bow to it sort of character.

Redesigned as a drug lord's lieutenant, I would probably change the character to be a foil to Draug. Draug's an enforcer, so a behind-the-scenes manipulater and con-artist works better. In combat, Draug buffs, debuffs, and does melee combat, so a Swift Hunter combo or a beguiler should probably be the other side of the gestalt. Tiefling Factotum/Chameleon//Something, with ranks in Knowledge(local) and maxed out Forgery, Sense Motive, Diplomacy, maybe ranks in Appraise?

Personality-wise, if we have a Hitman with a Heart of Gold mixed with Satisfied Street Rat, we could use this character as a darker foil. I was thinking maybe Dark Action Girl meets Manipulative Bitch, with a hefty dose of simply not caring about people.

Eh... I don't think this next one should actually be related to Draug. A stand-alone BBEG that isn't currently being used in a campaign offers much more flexibility in creation, and after that we could design lieutenants and dragons (perhaps also the fire-breathing kind, too...) for her, to be added to a campaign later. Xykon only really has one lieutenant (Redcloak), and some other henchmen/advanced minions. Tukiko is nowhere near the lieutenant Redcloak is; if Xykon had another lieutenant like Redcloak, it would just feel like dealing with several different bodyguards, making each one less unique. Perhaps one foil would be okay, but more? Not really.

That said, I like the idea of a manipulative behind-the-scenes BBEG, but still someone who is very obviously noticed. So, perhaps, tiefling vampire duskblade 3/rogue or factotum X//dread necromancer Y, using DMM fell animate & other DMM shenanigans.

[flabort]

So Adjedea want's... what was it? loyal, slightly mothering part-fiend? Must be self sufficient, and a bit of a scrapper? And then there's her tropes.
Well, DAG works with self sufficient, and MB works with part fiend. sort of.

But, we need a name for this b****, and more ideas. I'm going to try and find more tropes.

Also, of note, is that she mentioned mothering. "slight tendencies", but mothering. I'll see if I can find an "evil momma" trope or something.

I'll edit when I find tropes. GN. Or when I've given up.

[Ajadea]

Trope-wise for the incarnation of the Tiefling as a BBEG, I believe the applicable ones would be:

Magnificent Bastard/Manipulative Bastard
Dark Action Girl
Visionary Villain
The Dead Have Names (No 'we have reserves' type tactics unless the character jumps off a slippery slope)

[Rob Roy]

If a tiefling is our next BBEG then she should have some connection to the planes. Maybe she's smuggling slaves into the markets of Sigil or any other planar city, or smuggling slaves from the Outer Planes (such as Baator) into the Prime Material, taking advantage of how much the average prime would pay for a fiendish or celestial gladiatorial combatant or status symbol.

[centuriancode]

So, this sets us up with two distinct groups of villains: the first set in a city somewhere (with Draug), and the second somewhere else. Another city-based villain would become boring for players very rapidly, so the extra-planar idea sounds good. Would we be intending either of these to become the focus of the entire campaign as a permanent thing, or just for a while until the main plot returns (or reveals the next tier of evil)?

[Fable Wright]

So, this sets us up with two distinct groups of villains: the first set in a city somewhere (with Draug), and the second somewhere else. Another city-based villain would become boring for players very rapidly, so the extra-planar idea sounds good. Would we be intending either of these to become the focus of the entire campaign as a permanent thing, or just for a while until the main plot returns (or reveals the next tier of evil)?

This isn't necessarily just for the campaign Draug is in; this could be a BBEG for an entirely different campaign. Just saying.

[Ajadea]

Considering the plane-spanning, possibly multiplanar web/webs of manipulation that seem to be a big part of wherever the tiefling's character is going, she'd likely be a campaign focus, particularly at higher levels, whether it's as a questgiver(for evil parties) or a BBEG.

[flabort]

I tried to point out that ajadea mentioned "slight mothering tendancies". they seem to have slipped again.

I'm just saying, If we're making two versions, one to work with/against Draug, and one as a full fledged stand-alone BBEG, the draug-version could hinge off of that small fact.

So: this is dealing with the work-with-draug version, so spoilered

Spoiler

Show

Draug as a friendly mate to the kids, and (we need a name!) as a parental figure. maybe she could even treat Draug his-self as a kid. He'd hate it, of course.
And I finally found a trope! She could be a Mother to her Minions. I'd like to point out the second paragraph. Goes well with Manipulative bastard, no? except the emotionally detached part. Although she could be the "stern fathermother" version.
Not to mention that she'd have Cute little kids as minions. They'd be hanging around Draug all the time, anyways, so why not exploit them? And the only reason Draug hasn't gutted her for exploiting them is because she's, of course, a manipulative b****, right? And, since the kids look up to her as a motherly figure, they don't feel they've been exploited.
This might turn our already (mostly) finished villian (don't tell me you already forgot draug!) into the woobie...
espesially if we make our new villian (again with not having a name for her!) the starscream.

Well, "tut, tut, dear Draug. you can be such a child sometimes."
"Hmmph. Not true."
"Don't try to deny it. I know you're upset because I had Julia assassinate <insert notoriously rich person>, when you were going to play 'family' with her. Now, don't forget your axe again today."
"Grooooan. I forgot. It. once. Can't you forget about that?!"

[Rob Roy]

Why would we be working on a Draug version? Tieflings tend to be involved in planar conspiracies and muggings. Why would she give a toss about some bugbear on the prime?

[Ajadea]

You have to start somewhere, and scrolls of plane shift are expensive?

[Rob Roy]

You have to start somewhere, and scrolls of plane shift are expensive?

Most tieflings are born on the planes, and there are other ways of getting from plane to plane without plane shift.

[AyeGill]

Most tieflings are born on the planes, and there are other ways of getting from plane to plane without plane shift.

Why are most tieflings born on the planes? Tieflings are one-quarter fiend if i recall correctly, that means they had one fully human parent, and one half fiends. While half-fiends are probably reasonably common on the planes, and humans may be found, i still think they're most likely to be born on the prime material plane.

[Rob Roy]

Why are most tieflings born on the planes? Tieflings are one-quarter fiend if i recall correctly, that means they had one fully human parent, and one half fiends. While half-fiends are probably reasonably common on the planes, and humans may be found, i still think they're most likely to be born on the prime material plane.

Tieflings are from Planescape, which was core in 2e. back then there were a lot of humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, modrons, and aasmir on the planes. If you want your answer look there. For example, they tend to be common on the Outlands because that's where Sigil happens to be. Here and here. Even if we're not going off of Planescape, most of the Planescape stuff has been worked into core. For example The Lady of Pain and Sigil are core in both 3.x and 4e. if we're making a tiefling you should read up on that stuff.

[AyeGill]

Tieflings are from Planescape, which was core in 2e. back then there were a lot of humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, modrons, and aasmir on the planes. If you want your answer look there. For example, they tend to be common on the Outlands because that's where Sigil happens to be. Here and here. Even if we're not going off of Planescape, most of the Planescape stuff has been worked into core. For example The Lady of Pain and Sigil are core in both 3.x and 4e. if we're making a tiefling you should read up on that stuff.

My lack of knowledge proves disastrous once again!