[Hourglass of Zihaja] Chapter 4: PC Races

[Lord_Gareth]

I think the ability modifiers were the largest point of contention with the 4E racial crunch. Other than that, they seem pretty solid. Then again, I'm hardly a 4E expert, not am I entirely unbiased, so I'd like to see someone else's impressions on the subject.

I'd also like to know how the audience reacts to the 3E crunch for the half-genies, the half-ghuls, & the sabi. Do you think that they are worth their LA? Are powerful enough? Too much? Too little? Are their abilities interesting & unique enough? Let us know what you think. Fluff can be rather subjective, but the crunch is fairly quantifiable.

I actually like half-ghuls quite a bit, and their racial bonuses are a huge aid for gish and paladin MAD problems, especially if you can coax buyoff out of your DM. However, I'd like to see more feats supporting a half-ghul's heritage beyond the ones currently presented - ask Afro about the giant rant I went on re: Claws of the Ghul (I. WANT. IMP CLAWS. ON MY NG ROGUE!). Aside from that, though, I feel half-Ghuls are a solid representation of what LA 2 should look like.

I <3 Sabis and would do them on sharp gravel.

[Reverent-One]

Okay, the 4e racial bonuses have been fixed. Now, does anyone want to talk about the mechanics, or shall I just assume my sense of balance is immaculate and unassailable? .

Mostly. Looking at the Half-genie race in detail though, there's a couple of things that bother me about it. Namely, the Half- Efreet and Marid racial powers. The minor action healing surge use is about as good as a normal racial power, and while in terms of total bonus's the half-genie has less than the usual 4e race, the aura burst 2 effects that last until you're bloodied are really good. Since they last until your bloodied, either they'll last for a while or you'll be making yourself a target to the monsters, which is good if A)you're a defender, B) your team is ready to take advantage of this focus on you (defender gets his marking benefits, controller AoEs people swarming you, other strikers get less attention than you). I'd say at least one of the following needs to happen with both powers:
1. The aura effect happens instead of getting hit points, not in addition to it.
2. Aura is only burst 1.
3. Aura lasts until the end of your next turn.
4. Aura only affects enemies/allies that end their turns in the aura, giving enemies a chance to move out instead of you auto-damaging them and requiring some cost on your allies part to get the temp HP.
And in the case of the Half-efreet power, it very possibly needs 1 AND one of the other three. Due to temp hp not stacking, the half-marid's isn't quite as good.

And as a minor wording issue, the trigger for the Half-Dao's stone smash seems strangely worded to me. I believe that normally, triggers that happen when you "would do X" are for effects that kick in instead of "X". So wouldn't "Trigger: You make a melee or ranged attack" be better?

[Shadow_Elf]

Mostly. Looking at the Half-genie race in detail though, there's a couple of things that bother me about it. Namely, the Half- Efreet and Marid racial powers. The minor action healing surge use is about as good as a normal racial power, and while in terms of total bonus's the half-genie has less than the usual 4e race, the aura burst 2 effects that last until you're bloodied are really good. Since they last until your bloodied, either they'll last for a while or you'll be making yourself a target to the monsters, which is good if A)you're a defender, B) your team is ready to take advantage of this focus on you (defender gets his marking benefits, controller AoEs people swarming you, other strikers get less attention than you). I'd say at least one of the following needs to happen with both powers:
1. The aura effect happens instead of getting hit points, not in addition to it.
2. Aura is only burst 1.
3. Aura lasts until the end of your next turn.
4. Aura only affects enemies/allies that end their turns in the aura, giving enemies a chance to move out instead of you auto-damaging them and requiring some cost on your allies part to get the temp HP.
And in the case of the Half-efreet power, it very possibly needs 1 AND one of the other three. Due to temp hp not stacking, the half-marid's isn't quite as good.

And as a minor wording issue, the trigger for the Half-Dao's stone smash seems strangely worded to me. I believe that normally, triggers that happen when you "would do X" are for effects that kick in instead of "X". So wouldn't "Trigger: You make a melee or ranged attack" be better?

My original drafts had the surge not granting any HP, but I had various reviewers direct me otherwise. I am personally of the mind that allowing them to be used whenever but not having them grant a heal is the most ideal way for those two powers to work, but I do remember disagreeing with other reviewers on the subject. If I could get some other opinions on the matter, that'd be excellent.

[Zeta Kai]

Sorry that I haven't responded in a more rapid manner; I've been very, very lazy busy.

I think you can get a good idea of the power level of the half-genies by comparing them to a similar race/template. For this, I think something like "Phrenic" (XPH) suits the bill.

For a +2 level adjustement, you get scaling spellcasting and caster level equal to HD, power resistance 10 + HD and a few stat adjustements (+8 total, all in mental stats), plus whatever racial bonuses you get for your base race.

Half-genies, on the other hand, get stat bonuses to physical stats, including strenght, the ability to cast 1 spell-like ability with a caster level of 8, energy resistance 10 to one energy type, a bonus feat from a limited list and racial bonuses to some useful skills.

When compared againsts eachother, you can see that the half-genies start stronger, due to higher level spellcasting and caster level, but start losing power before the mid levels (when those spells become common). The bonus feat and skill points don't really matter when you take a human as base for "Phrenic". I think scalling casting, has a racial ability or a feat, might be an interesting idea to keep up the power level, because if you dont have LA buyoff, the level tax gets harsh later on (it's a full spell level, and considering their favorite class is sorcerer, it's what matters).

The points raised are valid, and associate too with a concern I've been receiving regarding how do work with the LA races at lower-level games. The issue is on the backburner at the moment, but rest assured it is on the docket.

Also, keep in mind that half-genies have access to exclusive feats, which do scale with levels. They're optional, & not every character will take any of them, but they are there for those who play half-genies, so that they can expand their options, both now & in the future.

I actually like half-ghuls quite a bit, and their racial bonuses are a huge aid for gish and paladin MAD problems, especially if you can coax buyoff out of your DM. However, I'd like to see more feats supporting a half-ghul's heritage beyond the ones currently presented - ask Afro about the giant rant I went on re: Claws of the Ghul (I. WANT. IMP CLAWS. ON MY NG ROGUE!). Aside from that, though, I feel half-Ghuls are a solid representation of what LA 2 should look like.

I <3 Sabis and would do them on sharp gravel.

Aside from that last statement (), I'm very pleased. I also think that half-ghuls are awesome, although I am admittedly biased. I agree that the racially-exclusive feats for the half-ghul are a bit binary in terms of alignment (they're either Good & they can get Redeeming Quality, or they're Evil & they can get everything else). There are a couple of alignment-neutral (no pun intended) options, like Arcane Blood, but most are a little polarizing. The feats for half-ghuls are meant to showcase & explore their divided nature & inner struggle, but I can see how some might not really dig that. I have much bigger fish to fry, so this may never be changed, but it's something to consider.