[BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn OOC Thread 14: When in doubt...Getsuga Tenshou!

[Draken]

Kayne. Unless Cassandra threw her sword at the tentacle and it returned to her hand to allow her to throw it again and try to cut Null Mind. She just did nothing at all and got shot with a lightning bolt.

This is not a close-quarters hollow,he is using a ranged attack. To which you did not answer.

He also has no stingers. And the shrimp did not attack.

[Kayne650]

Oh shoot, I'm sorry. When I read it, I thought that the first part, when you said that it was charging its tentacle like a stinger, that it was charging it towards Cassandra, as in attacking her directly with it. I thought that it and the bolt were two separate attacks. I'll go change that, sorry.

EDIT: Fix'd. I now explicitly mention that her jump is bringing her closer to Null Mind, as well. Sorry, Draken!

[Kasanip]

So, should everyone be forgetting Sayaka right now? And what about those "minor hollows"? Kuro, was that plotline going ahead?

When I suggested people forgetting her I meant people specifically only forgetting her last year in school. So that'd mean everyone would at least remember their recent time spent with her.

I'm pretty sure Kasanip thought the same. Ken suddenly forgetting who he wants to save sounds pretty silly to me. :P

If so, the question is whether Ayase will be unaffected by the hollow's power and remember her meetings with Sayaka from the previous year and if supernatural teachers will do the same.

I personally am not sure if other people are supposed to forget her last year.

Better ask that to Kasanip.

I am sorry for the confusion again.

My hope was that everyone who knows Sayaka would remember her, but that the 'year of her life' never existed.

Maybe example of my thoughts:

• Ayase is also a second year student who knows Sayaka. She still knows Sayaka, but Ayase is Sayaka's senior, because Sayaka is a first year student. So, they were not in the same class now, but she would be known from Shrine and recent visits. Maybe some of their relationship is 'forgotten' or 'changed'.
  
  I just noticed now the 'monster cat' is a senior to the 'shrine maiden'. Maybe there is of course many times for humor revenge soon too.
  
  
• Ken is a first year student who knows Sayaka. He still knows Sayaka, but she is his classmate, because Sayaka is a first year student. He didn't know Sayaka before very recently, so there is not so much change.

Maybe there are some strange things about this kind of change students might notice, but I hope 'real reason' is not known.

Example:

• Kaito is a first year student who knows Sayaka. He knows Sayaka is in his class, but she hasn't truthfully been in his classroom since school started. This is a little strange. (Maybe Reene will declare it a 'application mistake' and transfer her into the class? Kaito may think with a logical explanation too).
  
  
• Mr. Hasunada was annoyed at Sayaka in the hallway this morning. She is a first year student, but he didn't teach her yet. When she comes to school tomorrow, is she 'transfer student' into his class, or has she missed for other reasons? Or absence without permission?
  
  
• Sayaka was a member of Japanese archery club last year. If she wants to attend club this year, then she is not remembered last year, and is just a new student who enters.

I am sorry for so much confusion, but I hope for everyone's cooperation. m(_ _)m
If you have question, please ask!

[Kuroimaken]

Anything messing with a timeline of events can be a little confusing at first, don't worry about it.

It might work out best if the memories of such events are locked away instead of erased completely. This would, among other things, enable the people involved to remember it eventually (perhaps some would be more easily affected than others? I can see, for example, Hasunaga finding the fact he hasn't seen Sayaka up until recently in his class strange if further explanation isn't given, but less likely to associate it to actual "memory loss", whereas Kaito, who has a more investigative profile (not to mention powers more directly related to the mind), might actually end up recollecting events he "isn't supposed to").

[KnightDisciple]

...How are the kids suddenly getting memories locked away?

I mean, I can understand Sayaka. She's getting mind-nommed.

But why would Kaito suddenly forget?

I have a better solution: Between her forgetting parts of her education and such, and issues with her attendance (I get the impression she's been absent a lot), why not just have her out and out bumped down a grade? They file it as a "head injury from a mugger" or something, so there's no shame attached or anything.

That way, she gets mind-nommed, she gets bumped down a grade, but we're not magically brainwashing everyone in the city with no explanation.

[Draken]

Its ot so much as it is messing with their memories as it is messing with causality itself, the way I see it. This was changed from a simple memory theft to a full-blown assault on her own timeline, fate, destiny and all that metaphysical stuff.

By causality, when her history is unwritten, the events cease to be and change accordingly in the minds of all that would have partaked in it.

Luckly, the events in question being unwritten are all backstory, it changes nothing of what the characters (and us) actually know.

[KnightDisciple]

...When the hell did we let a character who can affect causality itself in the game?

No, seriously. When?

Why is that a better solution than what I presented? Why is "time shenanigans!" better than "she got bumped down a grade because of head injury"?

I'd rather not have it be "messing with causality itself". Like, I would really, really, really, x10 not like that to be the "answer". Seriously.

[Kuroimaken]

Its ot so much as it is messing with their memories as it is messing with causality itself, the way I see it. This was changed from a simple memory theft to a full-blown assault on her own timeline, fate, destiny and all that metaphysical stuff.

By causality, when her history is unwritten, the events cease to be and change accordingly in the minds of all that would have partaked in it.

Luckly, the events in question being unwritten are all backstory, it changes nothing of what the characters (and us) actually know.

So it's kinda like the grandfather paradox, but only as far as memories are concerned.

Keep in mind, Sayaka was with the other kids when Mori Souta went Hollow. So undoing the ACTUAL EVENTS would result in none of the kids having powers.

[Kasanip]

I don't think I'll ever try to make a plot again. All of the trouble of the first hollow attack plot, and now this are too troubling for everyone. I'm sorry.

This was the idea I thought I had explained but must have been very very bad explanation.

I don't know [Causality] and this kind of thing.


My hope was to help Sayaka to fit into first year student class. I give up on everything else now. I thought it would make for more interesting story .

Just having Sayaka lose memory was never my idea. It was to make her '16 year old first year student'. Not make her '17 year old second year student who is [amnesia] and [repeat a year].'

I don't know English word, 「一年生化させてしまうため」. There is very famous comic of character named "Conan" who is suffer a little same thing I thought for example.

I wish negative opinions had been told to me earlier. But because of my own failure of explaining it is my fault other people did not know. I tried for some days to talk in ooc about this.

Of course if other players do not want such a change, I cannot do it.

[KnightDisciple]

The problem is, she was established at the beginning as a 17-year-old student in 2nd year.

Making her a year younger, and literally changing history around that, is...well, something with that sort of power begs a lot of questions.

My suggestion of the non-time-warping story was one that allowed us to not introduce something that could well break the game.

I'm sorry if that distresses you, or something. But I'm not sure how we can make a more radical change without basically introducing a character who ought to be able to win everything by manipulating time.

[Draken]

It's not actually affecting events. Merely the outlook of people on those events. And more likely than not, only non-spiritually aware people would be fully affected by the effect.

Also, this hollow is an NPC plot device, not a character.

[KnightDisciple]

It's not actually affecting events. Merely the outlook of people on those events. And more likely than not, only non-spiritually aware people would be fully affected by the effect.

Also, this hollow is an NPC plot device, not a character.

Doesn't matter. How is he suddenly affecting the minds and memories of people not anywhere near him?

I'd really rather that not happen. Really.

[nothingclever]

Doesn't matter. How is he suddenly affecting the minds and memories of people not anywhere near him?

I'd really rather that not happen. Really.

It really isn't a big deal. Stuff like this happens in plenty of stories. We are writing a collaborative story. Plenty of stories have characters altering how people are perceived/remembered and we don't always complain about our suspension of disbelief being broken for some reason. We don't always ask why a character is super weak and yet has such a potentially tremendous power.

Why does it matter that it's affecting many people? It's not hurting anything. It's a self-contained event. If the hollow isn't going to be a constantly reoccurring character/permanent fixture why does it matter what it can do?

The only logic I see for disliking things is the idea of the slippery slope phenomenon. Why not save your energy for when people come up with ideas inspired by this one that do lots of controversial things/have many affects on the story people don't agree with so you can vehemently oppose them? I have a strong feeling the majority of players won't agree that what's put into motion shouldn't happen.

How does it being a plot device instead of a regular character not matter? Really? That sounds pretty arbitrary to me.

If I were you I'd just be asking whether or not the hollow will be beaten by the end of this encounter or whether it will be tampering with memories in any other way and if so to work out how that would happen OOC before having it happen IC.

[KnightDisciple]

How is me not liking a "plot device" that arbitrarily alters time/my character's mind something "minor"? It's not just "slippery slope"; it's an immediate concern of what in the hell is doing this, and why it's not doing even more damage, and why should I go along with this idea that's just being done without asking?

Sorry, but no.

[Kasanip]

The problem is, she was established at the beginning as a 17-year-old student in 2nd year.

Making her a year younger, and literally changing history around that, is...well, something with that sort of power begs a lot of questions.

I know she was established as 17-year-old student. I am the player of Sayaka.

But I want to change that about my character. Because I can't play this character in the game if I don't- that is my feeling.

If it was not made to a small plot to explain in story, would it have been ok to make change of the character? If I just said in ooc "I can't play this character as she is, I would like to change her." Would that be ok?

My suggestion of the non-time-warping story was one that allowed us to not introduce something that could well break the game.

I'm sorry if that distresses you, or something. But I'm not sure how we can make a more radical change without basically introducing a character who ought to be able to win everything by manipulating time.

I'm sorry, this change doesn't do what I would like to do. It makes Sayaka into [retard character] which is not what I want.

[Kayne650]

Also, keep in mind that, unless something extraordinary happens, the Hollow will not survive meeting Cassandra, who is designed to herself have power equal to or slightly below a Vice-Captain; no way is she going to lose to this Hollow. Remember, this one isn't a clone.

Personally, and I'm pretty sure that this is true for everyone else involved, I believe this to be a one-time thing based on a specific request from a member of the forums who wished to change her character, without rewriting absolutely everything that's happened so far. And it might make for an interesting plot hook later if they decide to go look for a way to get those memories or that history back, which might happen in the Samsara plot, since that involves memories. In fact, we might even be able to use this directly in the Samsara arc (though this is all just speculation).

My main point is this; this isn't meant to be a game-breaking omnipotent precedent for later characters, it's just a thing to help Kasanip out. I think if we agree that we won't give players this kind of power, and only give it to a minor Hollow this one time, then there shouldn't be any problem, right?

[KnightDisciple]

If it was not made to a small plot to explain in story, would it have been ok to make change of the character? If I just said in ooc "I can't play this character as she is, I would like to change her." Would that be ok?

I'm totally fine with an Out-Of-Character retcon of something like this. Sometimes you look back and realize you need it.

I'm just asking we don't try to come up with wacky shenanigans In-Character to explain it. A literary retcon of "this is how it's been, period" is fine, so long as it's a totally OOC thing.

[nothingclever]

How is me not liking a "plot device" that arbitrarily alters time/my character's mind something "minor"? It's not just "slippery slope"; it's an immediate concern of what in the hell is doing this, and why it's not doing even more damage, and why should I go along with this idea that's just being done without asking?

Sorry, but no.

You aren't explaining why it doesn't matter if this is a one time thing or if the hollow is a reoccurring character. You aren't really explaining what your problem is other than saying it'll alter your character. Your problem apparently doesn't have anything to do with whether the hollow will be a reoccurring character or not, so what is it? That'd be my biggest concern. You weren't asked first? Kasanip was talking about things right here as she thought of them. You could've objected earlier. Why does it matter so much to you that Kaito would suddenly believe Sayaka had always been in the same grade/class as him after having only met her a short while ago and having found out otherwise?

Is your big concern "what's doing this?" A hollow with a unique power. Why hasn't it used its power to take over the world or something? Maybe it's simply never had the ambition to. Maybe its master just doesn't feel like trying to use it in a more effective way to attack Soul Society or whoever/whatever you think it should be targeting.

Instead of explaining yourself in a clearer manner you say things like "doesn't matter" and "sorry, but no." Given your past track record I highly suspect you wouldn't be happy with people saying such things to you.

[KnightDisciple]

You aren't explaining why it doesn't matter if this is a one time thing or if the hollow is a reoccurring character. You aren't really explaining what your problem is other than saying it'll alter your character. Your problem apparently doesn't have anything to do with whether the hollow will be a reoccurring character or not, so what is it? That'd be my biggest concern. You weren't asked first? Kasanip was talking about things right here as she thought of them. You could've objected earlier. Why does it matter so much to you that Kaito would suddenly believe Sayaka had always been in the same grade/class as him after having only met her a short while ago and having found out otherwise?

Is your big concern "what's doing this?" A hollow with a unique power. Why hasn't it used its power to take over the world or something? Maybe it's simply never had the ambition to. Maybe it's master just doesn't feel like trying to use it in a more effective way to attack Soul Society or whoever/whatever you think it should be targeting.

Instead of explaining yourself in a more clear manner you say things like "doesn't matter" and "sorry, but no." Given your past track record I highly suspect you wouldn't be happy with people saying such things to you.

Maybe I skimmed the planning posts earlier, that's a my bad.

My core problem is the implication of the sheer power behind something altering that many minds. We're talking a power on par with a Captain, even if most of them are "spirit-blind humans" or whatever. Reaching out and precisely altering so many minds at once is an incredible task. Especially without ever being noticed by Soul Society or anyone/thing else. That's a feat that...well, I don't know what character could wreak such changes totally unnoticed.

And saying "it doesn't have the ambition" or "its master didn't feel like using it" is kind of lazy writing. It really does beg the question.

Is it wrong that I don't want to have my character's mind meddled with like this?

I provided a potential IC reasoning. Despite what Kasanip said, I was not trying to make her character a "retard". At all. It would be treated not until the victim of a car accident. I mean, while it's a bit of Magical Amnesia, memory loss is a real thing. Combined with the stated fact that she's missed school because of priestess duties and such before, it seemed like a much easier approach.

I also said I'm perfectly fine with an Out Of Character Retcon. We could just say "she's actually a 16-year old". I don't think any critical plots truly rely on her being 17; she could be in the same year as the others and still be a Nurse's Aid or whatnot.

[tgva8889]

Well, KD, unless you can come up with a solution that Kasanip herself, as the player of the character, is alright with, I suggest that you accept the fact that the majority of the game is alright with this solution.

Also, we could just decide that those of spiritual power are aware that something has changed. Like, Kaito could easily just be like "Wait, you're in my class now? Weren't you the year above me?" and everyone else who was affected would be like "What are you talking about?" and you get to keep your character un-mind-affected. This gives your character something to investigate: "What's the issue with this? Why do I remember something no one else seems to?" That could easily create a plot in the Mortal World to uncover the truth.

Also, who's saying these changes are going "unnoticed?" We could easily have members of 12th or something go "Something just happened in the Mortal World, what in the goddamned world was that?" and that could initiate some kind of research plot.

I feel that the biggest problem is that we are trying to turn a retcon into something that lets people roleplay, and you are telling us "No, just retcon it" even though we all want to roleplay. Perhaps we should instead work towards a solution that's good for everyone and also allows us to roleplay. Please?

[KnightDisciple]

I'd like to roleplay on the Michiko plot. Which has been sitting idle for a couple of weeks now. There are future plans I'd like to go forward with, and I'm basically sitting on my hands with Kaito (and actually others, but for different reasons).

If this goes forward, it goes forward. Doesn't mean I'll like it.

[tgva8889]

I don't like Quincy with guns or Shinigami with weapons that aren't sword-like as Shikai. Doesn't mean I don't have to suck it up and accept it when it happens, as well. I'm not going to take away other people's fun unless there's a very, very good reason.

Also, sorry, the Michiko plot is on hold because I have real-life issues popping up that I did not know would be popping up. I'm sorry. Thank you for your patience.

And hey, maybe now you have something you can do with Kaito.

[KnightDisciple]

What plot can I do with him besides "wait, she's in our class?", if we even remember it? I'm being serious here. At best, we get a wild goose chase, because Cassandra's gonna kill the Plot Device Hollow.

The real problem is that things are dragging for essentially every character I have.

Another difference is that this proposed idea, unlike the Quincy guns or non-sword Zanpakutos (in their sealed state, as we can clearly say shikai is totally fair game), this actively affects my character.

[tgva8889]

I meant sealed state, yes, that's my bad.

And, well, now it doesn't. We fixed that problem.

Hey. Maybe you can involve SWORD somehow. Clearly some temporal distortion like this shouldn't go completely under their radar (both literal and metaphorical), and I thought your character was high-enough ranking in that organization to do some things without having to rely on tons of other people.

I'm sorry your characters are being held up. Unfortunately, the fact that I was involved in several plots has slowed them down, because I'm suffering. I really do want to post and speed things up, and it annoys me greatly that I can't. Hopefully I can make that up to you at some later time.

Edit: I realized that my post was not what I meant to say. I do that a lot. Also, not sure whether Kina is okay to show up, so I'm having her move in the general direction. Let me know if it's okay that Kina is present or not. I have a direction I'd like to take her that makes sense for her to act in this way.

[Kayne650]

Um, if it'd be better for Casandra to not kill Null Mind, then I'm okay with that. I mean, she won't be okay with it, but her killing the Hollow is by no means a foregone conclusion. I mean, it's what I assumed would happen, and what we'd agreed on, but it does not have to be so by any means.

However, it'd probably be just as good for the kids to look for whoever sent Null, once they figure out what happened. Just because the culprit is gone doesn't mean that there isn't a smoking gun, so to speak.

[Kasanip]

Maybe I skimmed the planning posts earlier, that's a my bad.

My core problem is the implication of the sheer power behind something altering that many minds. We're talking a power on par with a Captain, even if most of them are "spirit-blind humans" or whatever. Reaching out and precisely altering so many minds at once is an incredible task. Especially without ever being noticed by Soul Society or anyone/thing else. That's a feat that...well, I don't know what character could wreak such changes totally unnoticed.

But I don't think it is like this. In Bleach Movie [Fade to Black君の名を呼ぶ] it is to be said that to lose memories can have such an effect by a hollow. (Thank you Frozen_Feet for english link: http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Bleach:_Fade_to_Black)

Maybe some of this thought also to be me my thought in a Bleach game. I don't think it is thought of same way maybe. But I don't know if such a movie has been seen or if it's plot is known. I think also it is possible such a notice by other, like tgva8889 say.

Is it wrong that I don't want to have my character's mind meddled with like this?

I provided a potential IC reasoning. Despite what Kasanip said, I was not trying to make her character a "retard". At all. It would be treated not until the victim of a car accident. I mean, while it's a bit of Magical Amnesia, memory loss is a real thing. Combined with the stated fact that she's missed school because of priestess duties and such before, it seemed like a much easier approach.

It was easier approach maybe, but it is not what I wanted. If 17-year-old is in 1st year class, surely it is this kind of thing. I did think of this idea too, and it was also made a suggestion earlier. But it was refused because wanting to make 16-year-old change. The opposite is also a problem. If just make her 16-year-old age, she could still be 2nd year student, but that doesn't make the changes I wanted.

I do not want to make trouble for KnightDisciple and your character Kaito. I know you are frustrated at me, but I am also frustrated of this problem. I asked in ooc thread many times of it, and ask for support and cooperation of players. I am sorry because maybe it was not understood for the request.

What plot can I do with him besides "wait, she's in our class?", if we even remember it? I'm being serious here. At best, we get a wild goose chase, because Cassandra's gonna kill the Plot Device Hollow.

I did think 'distraction hollow attack' was supposed to happen to other characters, so to give them something to do also after school. But I don't know what is happening for this or if it is desired. But it seems like it could be chance for students to show a little more of 'individual power' after first 'group fight' and before Michiko plot becomes 'group fight' again.

Of course if you have idea for involvement of course please offer such a suggestion.

Another difference is that this proposed idea, unlike the Quincy guns or non-sword Zanpakutos (in their sealed state, as we can clearly say shikai is totally fair game), this actively affects my character.

I asked if ooc change was ok for you, because such a change means Kaito would have to have such a change. So I thought then it is not a problem of it affecting Kaito. Because you would have made a change if it is just ooc change, but you said it is ok.

If you do not want to have Kaito have such an effect like other characters, it is ok I think for him not to have such a change. I said several times that maybe spiritually aware characters are not completely affected. Because I thought maybe some people would not want such a change to their character.

So maybe it is the same as Kaito and Ayase's transform power, where other character do not see it is Ayase, but Kaito always insist it is. But such a life maybe is more frustrating for Kaito. Because Sayaka will become 16-year-old first year student, so maybe that situation is not the same. Maybe it can be a good thing though? Kaito sometimes seems like a [leader character] in group. Maybe it is difficult now, but later it can be useful. That is my hope, because I like his character. I am sorry to choose him for example if it caused stress for you. It is only an example.

I meant sealed state, yes, that's my bad.

And, well, now it doesn't. We fixed that problem.

Hey. Maybe you can involve SWORD somehow. Clearly some temporal distortion like this shouldn't go completely under their radar (both literal and metaphorical), and I thought your character was high-enough ranking in that organization to do some things without having to rely on tons of other people.

Edit: I realized that my post was not what I meant to say. I do that a lot. Also, not sure whether Kina is okay to show up, so I'm having her move in the general direction. Let me know if it's okay that Kina is present or not. I have a direction I'd like to take her that makes sense for her to act in this way.

I hope the problem can be solved easily like this. Thank you very much for your idea tgva8889.

I am happy if it is desired to be useful to others. One idea was Kayne650 wanted to help use it for introduction for Samsara character and I think it is ok. Of course if there is desire for SWORD or Soul Society to have a notice, it is possible I think. If you want Kina involve, please freely do it.



I think it is good to return to Michiko plot soon. But I don't think Sayaka plot will take very long. Already it seems almost finished I think. Actually one thought to say 'Sayaka plot' was to try to make interesting event while Michiko plot is waited on.

[tgva8889]

And hey, KD, I promise there will be some kind of "plot" in the "researching the history" thing, as I think lost histories will have some..."influence" later on. Yeah...I think I'll just say that.

[Frozen_Feet]

As it seems what the power does and how it works are part of the problem, here's my proposal based on the examples given (Conan Edogawa from Detective Conan et all):

The effect caused by the attack is inherent to Sayaka. It rejuvenates her physically by one year and breaks her spirit in a way that her own presence obfuscates memories others have of her. So when people look at her, they retcon their memories to fit the new situation, because they can't recognize her as the same person anymore.

It is a form of "mental invisibility", or "someone else's problem field" if you're familiar with Hitch-Hiker's Guide to Galaxy. No large-scale damage is done to causality or anything of the sort, the attack just affixes a minor suggestive or hypnotic effect on a victim in addition to physical transformation.

As for "OOC retcon Vs. IC event" - the latter involves other players and characters more and creates drama that fuels the game. At least I find exploring ramifications of such an attack interesting.

[KnightDisciple]

As it seems what the power does and how it works are part of the problem, here's my proposal based on the examples given (Conan Edogawa from Detective Conan et all):

The effect caused by the attack is inherent to Sayaka. It rejuvenates her physically by one year and breaks her spirit in a way that her own presence obfuscates memories others have of her. So when people look at her, they retcon their memories to fit the new situation, because they can't recognize her as the same person anymore.

It is a form of "mental invisibility", or "someone else's problem field" if you're familiar with Hitch-Hiker's Guide to Galaxy. No large-scale damage is done to causality or anything of the sort, the attack just affixes a minor suggestive or hypnotic effect on a victim in addition to physical transformation.

As for "OOC retcon Vs. IC event" - the latter involves other players and characters more and creates drama that fuels the game. At least I find exploring ramifications of such an attack interesting.

Of the solutions presented, I suppose this is the one that I find least objectionable.

It could even be explained via the effect latching onto her spiritual power. Not draining it, necessarily, but perhaps taking bits so minor she'll never notice. That way, we have a reason it stays active on her, and a reason for not having 1 Hollow blot out the memories of everyone.

(Incidentally, the movie's plot, where wiping rukia's memory wipes everyone else'? That was very "meh".)

[Kuroimaken]

I think what's making KD upset the most is that this is an event that directly affects his character without "resistance", so to speak.

Personally, I figured the way the Hollow attack worked was something like this: picture a person's life as a series of threads. When a person interacts with another, these threads meet, creating 'memory'. What the Hollow does is change the "direction" of these threads so that the most recent no longer connect with others. However, that doesn't mean they never did, just that the connection isn't there. (Though come to think of it, I like the Detective Conan explanation better.)

There is, in fact, precedent for such a situation in Bleach. When Byakuya and Renji went to the Mortal World to get Rukia, everyone in their class but Ichigo, Orihime, Chad and Ishida forgot about her ever attending class. And that's not mentioning the Shinigami Neuralizer Duckies like the one Rukia used on Ichigo's family the night after he got his powers, making them believe A TRUCK DROVE INTO THEIR HOME (Isshin probably faked it, though).

So there you have it.

Also, Kasanip, don't you DARE not make any new plots. You've got a really good imagination and this is meant to be a collaborative writing game, it's almost unfair to us if you do that!