Community Based Monster Classes VI

[Zemro]

Thorn

• For the sake of my OCPD, can you remove the text prior to the Thorn entry? No longer needed, and it detracts from the monster.

Done. It bothered me for somewhat similar reasons but didn't know if I should remove it. Since it's bothering someone else I've gone ahead and removed it.

• Refreshing to have a roguelike creature, I gotta say.
• Under Sneak Attack, you use 'loose', where you mean 'lose'.
• Under Slumbering Shots, you use 'effect' where you mean 'affect'.

Hurrah! And double done.

• For the slow effect, consider making it break under the same conditions that would break the sleep spell, so it doesn't work out as a potentially better effect to apply.

Not so sure about that, as sleep breaks when you hit a creature and that largely seems to defeat the purpose of a slow effect. The creature can still attack you, but attacking back breaks the debuff. Sleep takes a creature right out of the battle, and leaves them open for a lethal coup de gras.

I can think of a few duration tweaks that might make it more comparable though, I'll test one out.

• The dex mod to damage feels like it comes a little late.

Maybe? The Thorn seems pretty well off before that, between sneak attack and slumbering shots.

• You reference slumbering shots getting stuck in, forcing repeated saves, and reference Weapon of barbs, but unless I'm being lamebrained, that 'getting stuck' bit is referenced under Piercing Strikes.

I may have overlooked some name changes when I rearranged the various abilities...

• Slumbering Shots is maybe a bit too powerful, with stacked penalties on the save and the 'save or lose' effect of it. Find a way to tone it down, just a bit?

I toned down the additional save debuff from Piercing Strikes to -1 per two stuck projectiles.

• A few too many bonuses on attacks, for such a relatively low level. Scrub the DR penetration or regeneration penetration, perhaps?

I initially thought to have the penetration limited by their ability modifier, so a Training Thorn with a +4 Wisdom modifier would ignore the first 4 points of the DR, and could deal 4 points of their damage as lethal versus regenerating creatures, but couldn't word it succinctly.

I could implement that if you think it would make things more acceptable, otherwise I'll have to consider which one to drop... I think the DR is more useful, but like the regeneration one because it's a relatively unique ability.

• Weapon of Barbs' bonus is maybe too easy to apply, considering the total benefit. Consider that you're getting the effect for the duration of each & every encounter. Since it lasts your wis or cha mod (which you're going to stack from an early level), it's liable to last most/all of the encounter. It costs nothing to activate, so you're really losing nothing for a free, up to date, customized magic weapon. Change to a 1/day per X HD, so you can't use it for *every* encounter & have to choose when to apply it, perhaps?

Taking a similar approach to some of my other toning down, I've changed the duration to equal half their ability modifier, that should perhaps curb things somewhat?

Otherwise, maybe have it lasting 1 round, and then a small cooldown (like a breathweapon) would be also acceptable?

Also, a quick google search (Monster Manual 2 Art Gallery) got me an image I think someone could make use of...

Spoiler

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[The Antigamer]

Gray Jester

• Looks pretty good.
• Joy slaves - might just suggest 1 per 5 HD for simplicity's sake. Open to suggestions.

Alright, 1 per 5 it is. I think it's pretty much done then, though would you care to comment on the proposed racial feat in the comments and queries?

[NineThePuma]

I have a minor suggestion/request...

It's standard to have a follow-up class that the race tends toward, and what not.

Could those follow up classes be listed?

My ideal would be to have a table that listed monsters based on Racial Type (Outsider, Fey, etc), follow up class, and possibly even their original source.

Using a table with a header list would allow the searcher to organize it how they wish.

It's just a thought tho.

[Betropper]

Made some changes to Gibbering Mouther. Also Gorgon, the point of being able to latch on to big creatures was that they had to first fail a strength save. In effect, a colossal creature deserves to be stuck if it failed the save.

Also, could anyone critique my Lycanthropy entry? It hasn't gotten any critiques that I have seen.

[Hyudra]

I have a minor suggestion/request...

It's standard to have a follow-up class that the race tends toward, and what not.

Could those follow up classes be listed?

My ideal would be to have a table that listed monsters based on Racial Type (Outsider, Fey, etc), follow up class, and possibly even their original source.

Using a table with a header list would allow the searcher to organize it how they wish.

It's just a thought tho.

Er, I don't know that I see the merit. But if you were to put such a table together and sell it to us, we might adopt it. Please feel free to try doing so.

And if you find it a daunting amount of work (as per your last few suggestions), consider that the rest of us, who are kind of busy with monsters & critiques and whatnot, might find it more so.

[Crafty Cultist]

Bleakborn:

• General formatting:
  
  • Worth stating the source.
  • Capitalize ability names throughout. Icy touch in the table, for example, should be Icy Touch.
  • In listing individual abilities in the body of the text, bold or italicize (bold preferred) the ability names to make them stand out & to make it less 'staggered wall of text'.
• Frozen Body:
  
  • Should be renamed to 'Bleakborn Body', to avoid confusion with other cold based monster classes.
  • Languages?
• Proficiencies:
  
  • Wepons -> Weapons.
• Icy Touch:
  
  • I'd consider letting the Bleakborn replace any melee attack with a touch attack, under the same rules you listed. This lets you make two attacks a round and make iterative attacks using the touch attack, which helps a great deal since your BAB bites.
• Fire Lover:
  
  • "For every 3 point of fire damage an attack deals..." - I think this should refer to damage taken, as the current wording implies it affects attacks the Bleakborn makes.
  • Also, even with the 'instead' there, it doesn't really make it clear the Bleakborn is immune to fire. Clarify?
• Turn resistance:
  
  • Capitalize to 'Turn Resistance'?
  • Kinda boring.
• Heat Siphon:
  
  • Capitalize ability names throughout. heat siphon should be Heat Siphon, in the body of text.
  • Spelling error: Exeption
• Heat draining aura:
  
  • Should be named Heat Draining Aura.
  • I'd state that the ability isn't fueled by creatures that couldn't grant experience to the bleakborn, to prevent shenanigans (I imagine a PC from bringing rats around with them to fuel the ability. Have a big cage of rats, drag it 11 feet behind you, use aura to kill one rat and get healing, rinse, repeat).
• Brittle Strike:
  
  • Capitalize to Brittle Strike.
  • Ability damage is just a bit low & scales a tad slowly.
• Greater Icy Touch:
  
  • Capitalize ability name. I'm going to stop mentioning this, but apply it to every ability entry below.
• Ice Ward:
  
  • That's not much damage reduction. 1/2 HD?
• Create Spawn:
  
  • You state the Bleakborn raises any creature it kills, but then you imply it works on any creature that dies within the heat draining aura.
  • I wonder if the zombies will become kind of useless at a later level.
• Ice Slick:
  
  • I don't like Prone as an easily applied condition. Especially as an area of effect easily applied condition. Especially when it uses a skill that most creatures won't have available. And you can use it constantly.
• Greater Heat Draining Aura:
  
  • I'm wondering if the scaling on heat draining aura is too much.
  • Exclusion is ok... 12 free damage a round might be a bit much at 6th, though.
• Frost Nova:
  
  • What kind of action is this?
  • Perhaps a little too hazardous to teammates.

I've fixed most of the pesentation stuff and made some other changes as well.

• The bleakborn can make as many touch attacks as it could slam attacks with its Icy Touch
• Heat draining aura requires creature worth XP for the fast healing effect to apply
• Brittle strike damage now increases every 5HD rather than every seven
• Ice ward's damage reduction has been increased
• Create spawn's Prerequisites for animation have been cleared up.
• Ice slick has been weakened considerably. It is now a reflex save or be unable to move, which can be avoided by moving at half speed.
• Greater heat draining aura no longer increases damage.
• Frost nova has been specified as a full round action and allows for ally exclusion just like greater heat draining aura. It has also been changed from uses per day to a 3d4 round cooldown time during which the bleakborn cannot use its heat draining aura.

[The Winter King]

Jovoc

• Str bonus to claw attacks?
  How did I miss that? Fixed.
  
• Should rename Body of Vengeance to Jovoc Body.
  Done.
  
• Second level is really boring. Only passive abilities.
  Jovoc can now summon other demons.
  
• Punishment Strike is rather over the top, given how fast it scales, and how easy it is to qualify to activate.
  Made it similar to smite evil, if smite evil didnt suck.
  
• Don't start sentences with And (as in Rapid Recovery)
  Damn you grammar!!! Fixed.
  
• Formatting error in Bloodclaws (14HD bonus isn't indented)
  I hate formatting.
  
• Retributive Aura:
  
  • The 'immune if your fort save is...' bit is kind of lame. It's a pain to check and track during battle ("Was that guy immune or not?")
    I made it more like AC and attack rolls, basically all creatures have a Fort Class FC and the jovoc makes a difficulty roll to affect them. Yay no more bogging down combat,
    
  • "A creature s not subject to the aura" - missing an i there.
    Sigh...
    
  • What would your thoughts be on going up against a pair or trio of Jovoc with these class levels, from the perspective of a 5th/7th level PC? Scads of vile damage to your entire team any time you try to hurt it, more vile damage as they spend HP while attacking you. Vile Damage is, like disease, something that doesn't particularly hamper most monsters, while it does inconvenience PCs. I wonder how apt it is here.

Mostly true but Vile Damage cannot be healed by FH and ignores regeneration

[Makiru]

Solamith

• Consider tweaking the starting languages, so there's less risk of a language barrier with fellow PCs. 3 is a bit much to start, especially when one isn't common.

• This is the same as on the original monster, where I guess Telepathy was just supposed to be the catch-all against language issues. It should also be noted that not having Common starting out does have precedence with the Neraphim (PH), which is a basic race. However, we are making these classes to be enjoyable to play, so I'll probably switch a language to Common, most likely Draconic or Celestial, and remove the other one.
  

• Why 2 damage per 2 HD when you could have 1 damage per HD? Just curious.

[Hyudra]

Everyone, take note that I've revised & cleaned up the Unfinished Monster post on the front page. I've split it into Unfinished & Abandoned content, erased the 'suggestions' column (as it was badly outdated & too much to keep up with) and listed my vote for several monsters. Gorgon is saying he'll give them critiques, so with luck, we'll be adding a half dozen monsters to the finished list in the coming week.

[Gorgondantess]

I'll restate: any who wants me to critique their monsters, I have my various chat chumhandles on my profile. Pester me and I'll get on it.

Troll:
Furor looks good.
Mend Flesh... huh. Can this heal fire & acid damage?
Gnaw: really only ever useful- at all- against high DR enemies.
Rend: consider this with furor. He can just make 2 or 3 claw attacks as a standard action and get rend damage pretty much every time.
Tumescent recovery: this then applies to all sorts of supernatural abilities as well. Intentional? Also, do you need to activate it after or before you take the damage?
Anyways, I could see really odd uses of this where a troll activates this ability and sticks a torch in its face. I don't really get it.
Violent Onslaught: I find it a little odd that if, say, a troll had a bunch of ability score increases to the point of moving 200' per round, it'd still only be able to move 20'. Why not just make it full move speed? It's kindof an underwhelming capstone, as is.

Minotaur:
Headbutt: you say he gains additional distance for being larger than the target. How much distance?
Also, for being driven into obstacles: I think it'd be cool if, when driven into an obstacle, the DC is based on how far they would have gone further. Just a thought.
Natural Cunning: May want to add "instead of the other (attribute)." Had me confused for a few seconds.
Triumphant Bellow:...Huh.
Why not just limit the allies' benefits to half the minotaur's?
And for fallen allies... define fallen. In the shaky realms from -1 to -9 hp? Why even bother? Also, unconscious foes automatically fail saves.
Stampede: very nice.

Bleakborn:

A bleakborn who choses to male

This ability has a radius of up to 10ft per HD, though the bleakborn can chose

Brittle strike: what's the point of dexterity damage if you're not going to be able to render your enemy paralytic? Rather than increasing the damage by HD, increase uses, scrap the once per round, and as a capstone allow it with every melee attack. You'll be making few enough anyways, and hitting even less.
Ice ward: whoah. Needs rewording. "DR/- equal to half its HD."
Create spawn: first of all, might want to make it a little later. Second of all, this is one of the few instances a bonus feat is good.
Otherwise, looking pretty good!

Solamith:
I honestly see no reason why anyone would ever want to play this class.
Moving on.
Solamith is a Summon Monster VIII summon, not a summon monster IV summon. So... add it to Summon Monster VII?
Widen Soulfire: Cap it.
Foreign soulfire: make it willing ally or summon monster only.

Thorn:
Add dex-to-damage to weapon of thorns.

Those of fourth level have a strong enough connection to the faerie courts to do something about that.

This line always made me cringe. It would be fine without it entirely. Also, tense correction: empower, not "empowered".

Weapon of Barbs: This just needs some clarification. Can you enchant a weapon of thorns normally? If so, how does weapon of barbs stack with that? If the enhancement bonus does not stack, consider just making it a special ability.

Otherwise, looking very good.

Swarmshifter:
Eh, looks good. I can give this one my vote.

Gibbering Mouther:
As swarmshifter.

Pandorym:
Last post on the previous page.

[Hyudra]

Added Gibbering Mouther and Swarmshifter to the master list. Grats, Betropper, TheGeckoking. I know we put you through the wringer, there.

Troll:
Furor looks good.
Mend Flesh... huh. Can this heal fire & acid damage?

It can - If I did have the restriction that it couldn't, it would mean having to keep track of fire/acid damage separately, which would get messy. The Fire/acid vulnerability is basically done through the 1d4 round delay before use.

Gnaw: really only ever useful- at all- against high DR enemies.
Rend: consider this with furor. He can just make 2 or 3 claw attacks as a standard action and get rend damage pretty much every time.

Any suggestions? As far as Gnaw goes, I could give it more of a bonus. For rend, I could replace the ability with something else, or make it contingent on not using Furor.

Tumescent recovery: this then applies to all sorts of supernatural abilities as well. Intentional? Also, do you need to activate it after or before you take the damage?

Intentional. You'd need to activate it before.

Anyways, I could see really odd uses of this where a troll activates this ability and sticks a torch in its face. I don't really get it.

I could replace it with something else. I think Zemro said it was kinda confusing. But just to clarify - I did stress that taking fire or acid damage ends the effect early, so the torch wouldn't work.

Violent Onslaught: I find it a little odd that if, say, a troll had a bunch of ability score increases to the point of moving 200' per round, it'd still only be able to move 20'. Why not just make it full move speed? It's kindof an underwhelming capstone, as is.

I may replace it. You're right that it's underwhelming.

Minotaur:
Headbutt: you say he gains additional distance for being larger than the target. How much distance?

It is stated, IIRC. You get a bonus +5'/-5' for each size category of difference. Just so there's less weirdness when headbutting an colossal opponent when you're medium.

Also, for being driven into obstacles: I think it'd be cool if, when driven into an obstacle, the DC is based on how far they would have gone further. Just a thought.

I'll see if I can work that in without making it bothersome to calculate.

Natural Cunning: May want to add "instead of the other (attribute)." Had me confused for a few seconds.

Sure.

Triumphant Bellow:...Huh.
Why not just limit the allies' benefits to half the minotaur's?

The intention was to do so. Bad wording on my part.

And for fallen allies... define fallen. In the shaky realms from -1 to -9 hp? Why even bother? Also, unconscious foes automatically fail saves.

I defined fallen in the bit with enemies. I'll clarify.

[Zemro]

Thorn:
Add dex-to-damage to weapon of thorns.

This line always made me cringe. It would be fine without it entirely. Also, tense correction: empower, not "empowered".

Done.

Weapon of Barbs: This just needs some clarification. Can you enchant a weapon of thorns normally? If so, how does weapon of barbs stack with that? If the enhancement bonus does not stack, consider just making it a special ability.

Otherwise, looking very good.

Well, Weapon of Thorns notes that turning a normal weapon into a thorned one doesn't interfere with existing magical abilities. I've gone ahead and changed wording to hopefully clear things up. Let me know if I should clarify further.

As a side note, the link to Marrash on the monster list actually leads to the locathah.

EDIT:

I could replace it with something else. I think Zemro said it was kinda confusing. But just to clarify - I did stress that taking fire or acid damage ends the effect early, so the torch wouldn't work.

My interpretation of the ability is that it essentially functioned as a sort of damage reduction, though healing damage done rather then negating it. If the Troll stacked his Con high enough, he may come out ahead sometimes, but generally it seemed to me to take the bite out of hits, or come out better if he has to take a tumble down a cliff.

It's rather neat overall, a sort of perk ability that meshes well with the flavour.

[Hyudra]

Feb 06, 2011 Changes to Minotaur:

• Clarified the effect of size on headbutt distance.
• Chance to daze when knocking enemies into obstacles is increased, based on how far they would've moved before they hit something.
• Clarified that Natural Cunning stat merge (for lack of a better term) uses the better attribute, instead of the inferior attribute, where appropriate.
• Clarified Triumphant Bellow, tidying it up quite a bit. Moved the mention of allies to the end, with a simple "allies within 30' of you get half the benefit you do" instead of constantly mentioning the half effect on allies.
• Triumphant Bellow stabilize chance boosted to 10% (so allies get +5%, while the 10% probably isn't ever going to be used by the minotaur, f'real).
• Clarified the 'fallen' bit as much as I was able, given how many interpretations of the term there are.

Feb 06, 2011, Changes to Troll:

• Gnaw (which was a singular bite attack that did bonus damage equal to the target's total HD, penetrating DR) replaced with Chomp, a single bite attack that can deal potentially massive damage, which was the intent anyways. I'll put a cap on it next time I update the class.
• Clarified what Immobilization does, under Thrash.
• Leaving Rend, Tumescent Recovery and Violent Onslaught alone until I decide what to do with them.

I'm debating, for Tumescent Recovery, something far simpler, where for a duration, 1/day per 4HD, you can force every damage roll against you to be rerolled, taking the lower result.

Also considering a rage-esque ability for the capstone.

[TheGeckoKing]

Spoiler

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Pandorym: 1st level offers almost nothing. Let's look at what you lose:
10 feet less move speed than most classes.
No fine manipulation.
Terrible skills.
Bad hp.
Can't wear armor.
Can't use weapons.
And what you get:
The ability to keep up with every other race for 1 round.
A mediocre slam attack.
...Actually, by RAW, the class couldn't even get the move speed bonus until at least 3rd level (4th if you don't round up). And does the class not have a strength score? Why is bonus slam damage based on con?

Crystalline spray: scale? Scale!

Also, I'm not a fan of the BAB. Even psions use attack rolls once in a while, and I don't see why this fellow would be even worse than someone totally untrained in combat.

Ego whiplash: It's only at all decent if you can kill a creature by slamming its charisma into nothing. As is, that's nearly impossible. Smooth out the scaling, make it a little more regular, eh?

Manifestation of will: why can't you just say: "gains manifestation as a psion of a level equal to class level-3." At first to third level you could just say it has a PP reserve of 1 or 0, and gains bonus PP based on intelligence.
Speaking of ability scores, all the other stuff really should be charisma. It's the ability score that governs innate abilities. Beyond that, it's the actual pandorym's highest ability score.

Faint Sign of Binding: Very, very weak. DC is ridiculously low, especially for one that targets a skill check. Level 2 wizards should be able to pass it by rolling above a 3.

Corporealize: What's the duration? One would simply make as many as possible. Might as well just say "gain con mod pseudopods".

Bonus psionic feat: *smacks* NO BONUS FEAT! IZ LAZY!
A good substitution would be to slap incorporeality on that level.

Moderate sign of binding: abusable. Especially because most casters will summon creatures similar to their own alignment.

3rd facet of mind: Um. It's a lot weaker than a single feat. Swift action?

Psionic Leech: does it affect every psion in the world, or does it have a range?

Strong Sign of Binding: was it meant to be versatile? I can imagine a clever pandorym using it as a buff, to make their non-casting allies immune to conjuration spells.
Also: probably a good idea to rewrite it so it is conjuration spells that allow SR.

A note on PLAs: due to their highly flexible nature and scaling by ML, you don't need to do much with them. Go ahead and use standard PLA DCs, and I wouldn't do instant augmentations like under 5th facet- whether it increases DC is muddy.

Psionic Vortex: Zam! Wow. A little powerful. It allows higher amounts of augmentation. Kindof a really super powerful capstone.

7th facet: underwhelming. Just a will save or die.

Righty-o, in order;

Pandorym

Spoiler

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Yeah, 1st level is terribad. Will rectify.
The Crystalline Spray now scales
Yes, the BAB is atrocious. Have you heard of Pet Rock Fighting Rings?
Manifestation of Will was nerfed because i'm paranoid, but if you say so. Wis was a guess, but if Cha works better, meh.
Faint Sign has been buffed.
Corporealize has been given a duration, because i'm a silly gecko and forgot it.
Moderate Sign makes the summoned creatures go AWOL on the summoner now.
Lightning Mind has been ajusted.
Psionic Leech........I'm tempted to say yes, just to see your face . Will rectify.
Strong Sign could be used as a Pseudo-Buff, I guess. No harm in that.
Turquoise Tyrant has been simplified, as you said.
Psionic Vortex is a bit powerful, but ya'know, 19th level without PRC'ing out should be rewarded, I guess.
7th Facet now heals you. It's a bonus. Everyone likes boni.

Now that Swarmshifter is up on the list, I feel like I can attempt.......The Epic Levels

Swarmshifter:
Yay!

Vivisector:
Can't see any outstanding edits needed, so unless you already have, could you have a look-y at it Gorgon?

[Crafty Cultist]

Bleakborn:


Brittle strike: what's the point of dexterity damage if you're not going to be able to render your enemy paralytic? Rather than increasing the damage by HD, increase uses, scrap the once per round, and as a capstone allow it with every melee attack. You'll be making few enough anyways, and hitting even less.
Ice ward: whoah. Needs rewording. "DR/- equal to half its HD."
Create spawn: first of all, might want to make it a little later. Second of all, this is one of the few instances a bonus feat is good.
Otherwise, looking pretty good!

Spelling errors fixed, brittle strike changed, ice ward reworded and Create spawn moved to level six

[Hyudra]

Marrash

• First level is a little dry. You get some flight and Marrash Body with some innate benefits, but you can't really do anything at that point.
• Rename Body of Disease to Marrash Body? Having something nonspecific like Body of Disease creates confusion if another monster uses the same ability name, and you gestalt, for example.
• Plagued Movement:
  
  • "While it posses wings" -> should be While it possesses wings."
  • "but their maneuverability increase to good at 10HD." -> should be "but their maneuverability increases to good at 10HD."
  • Personally, while it's technically fine, I'd prefer to see Flight as a separate ability at 5th level, rather than be granted with scaling for a 1 level dip.
• Disease Carrier:
  
  • "Marrashi of second level have, through training and exposure to disease managed to adapt their immunity to diseases." -> need an comma after the first disease there.
  • "plus an aditional strain for every 5 points" -> additional.
  • "Multiple instances of the same disease do not stack, instead each one tracks its strains" -> Should be Multiple instances of the same disease do not stack. Instead..."
  • "Instead each one tracks its strains" -> what does "each one" refer to?
  • "Thus a Marrash with 16 constitution could have filth feaver twice and mummy rot once" -> fever
  • "and not be able to trap any more diseases." - what if I want to replace an old, retained disease with a newly acquired one?
  • "the caster must immedietly make" -> immediately.
  • "Whenever he deals damage with his claw or talon attacks" -> change 'he' to 'the Marrash'.
  • "This DC is equal to the higher of the disease's base DC or 10 + half the Marrash's HD + constitution modifier" - just make it 10 + 1/2 HD + con mod.
  • "but continues to use the DC it rolled against to contract it." - why?
  • "each attempt at infection lowers the amount of held strains by one for that disease." - this sounds like an incredible pain in the arse. How many sources of disease are there, really? Disease isn't that useful to a PC, so you're effectively building a slightly tougher melee warlock that trades away invocations for diseases that are less effective & harder to keep a decent storage of.
  • "his body immedietly discharges" -> immediately.
• Disease Sense:
  
  • "allowing them to be aware of contaminated creatures and objects nearby. His senses" - you change focus here, from plural to singular. Them, their, all Marrashi to 'His'.
  • "and the number of contaminated subjects within 30ft plus an aditional 5ft for every point that the disease's DC exceedes 10." -> sounds like a right pain to keep track of.
  • "plus an aditional 5ft" -> additional.
  • "but cannot pinpoint position exactly unless within 5ft" -> missing a word/words. "but cannot pinpoint the victim's position exactly unless they are within 5'.
  • Why can't he pinpoint their position exactly? It's like an inferior scent.
  • "percieve disease for 1 round..." -> perceive.
  • "he must wait five minutes before soing so again." -> doing so.
• Intensify Infection:
  
  • I don't know that I like it being a swift action, but can live with it.
  • I dont' like per-encounter abilities either.
  • "Regardless of the diseases save DC, this save an all future ones against" -> disease's, and all future ones.
  • "by the target" -> unnecessary. Delete.
  • "This ability also allows a Marrash to grow adition strains of diseases he has trapped. Once per day a Marrash can add an aditional strain to every disease he's carrying." -> additional, for both. Far too little, as far as ability to replenish disease stock.
• Draw Disease:
  
  • "they may be carring into himself." -> carrying.
  • "He makes a saving throw against the diseases DC" -> delete all mention of this. Use a standard DC, as determined by Marrash HD/con mod. Using the disease's DC will just make for a lot of bookkeeping and diseases that are too lame/too powerful for your level.
  • "or loose possestion of " -> lose, possession.
• Archer's Presence:
  
  • "spike dchain" -> spiked chain.
  • "This aditional training " -> additional
• Afflictive Ammunition:
  
  • "diease he's carrying to infect and arrow or crossbow bolt" - disease, an.
  • "damages a creature it immediate makes a save against" -> immediately.
  • "Alternately when someone not immune to disease handles in infected piece of ammunition" - an
• Double Bowfire:
  
  • "The pinnacle of Marrahi bowsmanship" -> Marrashi?
  • "aditional" -> additional
  • With every attack? Attacks of opportunity? Maneuvers?
• Takliff Curse:
  
  • Kind of underwhelming as a capstone. It's a disease with no effects, that can affect disease immune foes, preventing resurrection & turning dead enemies into disease immune (which is your whole schtick) Marrashi with a grudge against you?

Overall, kind of weak. It's far too hard to get diseases, and too easy to spend them, provided you want to do anything with your class features. I mean, assuming 13.3 encounters a level, how many of those encounters feature foes with disease attacks? Now weigh that against the fact that you've then got to hit them or get them to hit you, to take in the disease. That gets you one use, which you may well spend in a subsequent encounter...

Which might be worth it if diseases were worthwhile, but they aren't. You can shorten the incubation period, which makes it ability damage with potential saving throws to cancel it (compare to other creatures in this project who deal ability damage in a very matter of fact way with their attacks).

To plug my own work, consider looking at Gravetouched Ghoul. There's a list of disease buffs the Ghoul could pick from under Ghoul Fever, that might suit the Marrash.

Beyond that, there's the element of passivity. The Marrash doesn't do a whole lot, beyond attack & occasionally receive/transfer diseases, or add an extra arrow in there somewhere.

[TheGeckoKing]

Pandorym's Epic Levels are now up. Yes, it gets to turn into a floating Sphere of Annihilation at Level 21. This is intended. So, without much more, Cry Cthulhu, and let slip the Hounds of Eldritch!

[Hazzardevil]

Heres my Horned Devil Class

Spoiler

Show

Horned Devil
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Worst Save|Middle Save|Best Save|Special

1st|

1

|

0

|

1

|

2

|Horned devil body, hellish Inheritence

2nd|

2

|

0

|

2

|

3

|+1 cha, Fear Aura, Growth

3rd|

3

|

1

|

2

|

3

|+1 str, Tail

4th|

4

|

1

|

3

|

4

|+1 con, Stun

5th|

5

|

2

|

3

|

4

|+1 str and cha

6th|

6

|

2

|

4

|

5

l+1 cha and con

7th|

7

|

3

|

4

|

5

|+1 str and con

8th|

8

|

3

|

5

|

6

|+1 str, con, cha

9th|

9

|

4

|

5

|

6

|Class Ability

10th|

10

|

4

|

6

|

7

|Class Ability

Spoiler

Show

Traits
An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

Darkvision out to 20 feet.
Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature; its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to lifeOutsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.

Weapon and armor profiency:
A horned Devil is proficent with all simple weapons, a number of martial weapons equal to it's HD, a spiked chain and all it's natural weapons.

Horned devil body:
A horned Devil has 20 ft movement ground speed and 50 ft fly speed(Average) A horned Devil also casts dispel and magic circle against good (DC 10+cha mod + half HD and chaos a number of times per day equal to it's HD. At 10 HD it may cast these at will.

hellish Inheritence:
At first level the horned devil chooses which of its saves it wants to become good. It also chooses which of its saves it wants to be average and which it wants to become poor.

At 2nd level a horned devil gains Powerful build.

Fear Aura:
At 3rd level a Horn Devil can radiate a 5-foot radius fear aura as a free action.
A creature in the aura must make a DC 15+ 1/2 Hd + Cha modifier or be affected as a fear spell. (CL 15.) A creature that makes this save cannot be affected again untill the sun sets.


Tail
Stun

I'll finish this later.

[Makiru]

Solamith:
I honestly see no reason why anyone would ever want to play this class.
Ouch.
Moving on.
Solamith is a Summon Monster VIII summon, not a summon monster IV summon. So... add it to Summon Monster VII?
Easily fixable.
Widen Soulfire: Cap it.
Probably a number of times equal to 1/2 HD or something
Foreign soulfire: make it willing ally or summon monster only.
willing ally

I think after this round of changes, I'll stop messing around with the solamith. If anybody wants to adopt it after that, they are more than welcome to.

[bladesmith]

Hey, Hazzardevil, your Horned Devil table is all messed up, has class abilities for a Scarrow, which as far as I can tell, is a 4th edition monster. I is confused.

[Hyudra]

And seriously, if you're going to work on a class in bits & pieces, it might be a good idea to just PM your work to yourself, or at the very least, spoiler your work.

In any event, someone already did the Horned Devil.

[bladesmith]

Thoughts on the Cloaker:
1) Just looking at the table, I can tell that this is going to be an odd class. It has the HD, BAB, saves, and skills of a pseudo-caster, but while it does have a lot of spell-type abilities, it also is big on grappling, and holding down its victims. Should be interesting.
One other thing you might want to do, though, is list out the ability score bonuses in its own section. Though you may want to think on those ability score adjustments, too. They seem rather... Varied and large for a 5 level class.
2) Cloaker Body is all kinds of fun. You aren't fast, but you have a climb speed, and the ability to be worn as clothing. And you eat cloaks for the people that wear you. Interesting adaption to give people an incentive to wear you. The only problem I can see with that is when you decide to fly off on your own, and leave your buddy without their magic cloak. Just a little awkward.
Also, if you get a chance, perhaps instead of them being "treated as though they had a base land speed of 30 ft for the purposes of using the jump skill", instead they can "ignore speed penalties to the Jump skill". Slightly more concise.
3) I was going to say something about Engulf being a little useless with it not working on creatures it's size, but that is fixed at 3rd level. Also, I like that you gave the bite a +4 on the attack, seeing its already at a -5 for being secondary(and no chance for multiattack) and I believe a -2 for being in grapple.
4) Just one thing you might want to clarify on engulfing leap, but if it is like a charge, do you have to move in a straight line? Also, if that is the case, can you charge through an ally's space by flying over them? Stuff like that would be good to mention in the entry.
5) Cloak is all kinds of useful, but some of the parts of it don't make as much sense, or require a little discrimination. Like the part where you can fly with the person wearing the Cloaker. Does this work even if the person is to heavy to be carried? Also, why can't it be spotted with Spot? When you see eyes and a mouth on someone's cloak, do you really have to know that it is a Cloaker to know that it isn't a cloak? If that makes any sense... Eh, that last bit isn't such a huge deal.
6) Huh, the only thing about Shadow Shift that strikes me as odd is that you let the Cloaker have Mirror Image at will at 12 HD, while the pattern would indicate the at will would come at 15 HD. Also, in Obscure Vision and Mirror Image, could you modify the wording, so that it reads something like: "any creature wearing the Cloaker as a cloak", or something.
7) Obscure Features= Cool.
8) Improved Engulf is quite useful. One problem I can see is where you make iterative attacks with a secondary attack, which already has a -5. Kind of odd.
9) "cloaker through cloak"? Could you please make this read a little easier. Also, I think it is customary to capitalize the class name every time it is used. I think. Still, Mutual Defenses is interesting, and gives the squishy characters one more reason to wear the Cloaker.
10) Flight is straightforward.
11) Huh... Moan could get interesting. First of all, it states that "anyone" in the area is affected. Does this include allies? If so, are there ways for your allies to give themselves a better chance to avoid the consequences? Stuff cotton in their ears? Also, good move not letting them have Hold Monster till 9HD. Of course, by that point, Fear and Nausea are becoming a lot less useful, as things are getting immunities to match.

All in all, a really interesting, very odd class. A rather eclectic mix of abilities, and a lot of things to boost other members of the party. That last part may be the biggest worry, though, is how much is dependent on someone wearing the Cloaker. A Cloaker's player will probably be willing enough to just ride around outside of combat, but its going to want to jump around and engulf people once things get going.

[Gorgondantess]

[QUOTE=Hyudra;10315666]Any suggestions? As far as Gnaw goes, I could give it more of a bonus. [/quote[
Just removing the secondary natural attack penalty for the purposes of gnaw would go a looooong way.

For rend, I could replace the ability with something else, or make it contingent on not using Furor.

The latter.

I could replace it with something else. I think Zemro said it was kinda confusing. But just to clarify - I did stress that taking fire or acid damage ends the effect early, so the torch wouldn't work.

Fine then, tossing boulders into the air and letting them land on its face.
Anyways, yeah, it needs an overhaul. It's just kindof messy and weird. Keep the same spirit, though, that's fine.

I may replace it. You're right that it's underwhelming.

Well, mainly just the short range is underwhelming. Just letting it move its land speed and maybe removing the penalty when using a claw would be great- I can imagine doing some pretty massive damage after an expeditious retreat spell.

It is stated, IIRC. You get a bonus +5'/-5' for each size category of difference. Just so there's less weirdness when headbutting an colossal opponent when you're medium.

Rightio.

Yes, the BAB is atrocious. Have you heard of Pet Rock Fighting Rings?

No, and I don't really care. It has no right to have that low BAB.

Manifestation of Will was nerfed because i'm paranoid, but if you say so. Wis was a guess, but if Cha works better, meh.

No, no. Scrap the table! It has no point! Keep the 3 disciplines.

Psionic Vortex is a bit powerful, but ya'know, 19th level without PRC'ing out should be rewarded, I guess.

I have never once found someone who understands the fundamental design philosophy behind psionics. Everyone just treats it as another caster, when it's anything but. Yes, they achieve nigh identical results... but the way they go about doing so is drastically, radically different.
PrCing out of Pandorym is perhaps one of the worst choices one could ever make. Arcane casting PrCs are a no brainer, but psionics was designed so that you only PrC if you want to get into something specific- if you just want a powerful caster, you go psion 20. Psionic PrCs, 95% of the time, lose at least one manifester level, which would bar the Pandorym from getting 9th level powers. And even for the ones that only lose one manifester level, they aren't getting anything nearly so powerful as Psionic Vortex. Hell, even without psionic vortex there's not much competition. Not only does it allow for more powers per day, more importantly it allows for greater augmentation.
So, remove it.

Solamith:

I honestly see no reason why anyone would ever want to play this class.
Ouch.

I more meant, I see no reason why anyone would want to be a solamith. Not saying the class is bad, I'm saying it's a thoroughly unpleasant and pretty lame monster for a PC.

[Lord_Gareth]

I more meant, I see no reason why anyone would want to be a solamith. Not saying the class is bad, I'm saying it's a thoroughly unpleasant and pretty lame monster for a PC.

Speak for yourself; I love the Solaminth, and it holds a special place in my player's hearts. The one where they go, "Gareth, I hate you so much right now."

[Makiru]

I more meant, I see no reason why anyone would want to be a solamith. Not saying the class is bad, I'm saying it's a thoroughly unpleasant and pretty lame monster for a PC.

I figured that's what you meant. I know the monster is a bit of a one-trick pony and doesn't have too much else going for it. Also, at this point, I'm not doing any major work on it (just suggestions from others), so I think I've probably gotten as far with it as I can. Like I said before, if someone really has the desire to take a stab at it, completely rework it, what-have-you, go for it. I bear no ill will and would almost be happy to see a fresh take on it.

Finally, I kinda said that to stop picking at it and focus on the garngrath and get that up before the end of the month (he said, hopefully...).

If I was trying to make drama, I would tell you that I was making drama. This isn't it.

EDIT: ...Oh, you meant because it's a big fatty fat! I feel dumb for not catching that before writing that big, stupid, sadsack pseudo-speech.

[TheGeckoKing]

Rightio.


No, and I don't really care. It has no right to have that low BAB.
It's a block of crystal. What's it supposed to do other than ram into people, shine on them?

No, no. Scrap the table! It has no point! Keep the 3 disciplines.
Well, it doesn't hurt to have the table. Limited disciplines have been re-added

I have never once found someone who understands the fundamental design philosophy behind psionics. Everyone just treats it as another caster, when it's anything but. Yes, they achieve nigh identical results... but the way they go about doing so is drastically, radically different.
PrCing out of Pandorym is perhaps one of the worst choices one could ever make. Arcane casting PrCs are a no brainer, but psionics was designed so that you only PrC if you want to get into something specific- if you just want a powerful caster, you go psion 20. Psionic PrCs, 95% of the time, lose at least one manifester level, which would bar the Pandorym from getting 9th level powers. And even for the ones that only lose one manifester level, they aren't getting anything nearly so powerful as Psionic Vortex. Hell, even without psionic vortex there's not much competition. Not only does it allow for more powers per day, more importantly it allows for greater augmentation.
So, remove it.

Earth Power does it for one feat, doesn't take 19 levels, and Pandorym can't use it because it floats over earth and needs to touch it to gain the effect. Big whoop.

Replies in bold.

[Gorgondantess]

It's a block of crystal. What's it supposed to do other than ram into people, shine on them?

No, it's supposed to be able to reliably shoot a ray of disintegration at them.

Well, it doesn't hurt to have the table. Limited disciplines have been re-added

Yes, it does. It's confusing. On the one hand you're saying it manifests powers as a psion, on the other you have a table that very clearly shows it does not manifest powers as a psion.
Also, I really wouldn't do the 3 disciplines thing, actually... that's probably better than any psion power selection, because the best powers of any level are always discipline specific.

Earth Power does it for one feat, doesn't take 19 levels, and Pandorym can't use it because it floats over earth and needs to touch it to gain the effect. Big whoop.

Earth power also requires constant psionic focus, technically 2 feats, and requires you to be standing on "stone or unworked earth", which is situational and often a bad move when you really should be flying. It's also a very powerful feat.

[TheGeckoKing]

No, it's supposed to be able to reliably shoot a ray of disintegration at them.

How can it do that when it's essentially in a crystalline straightjacket?

Yes, it does. It's confusing. On the one hand you're saying it manifests powers as a psion, on the other you have a table that very clearly shows it does not manifest powers as a psion.
Also, I really wouldn't do the 3 disciplines thing, actually... that's probably better than any psion power selection, because the best powers of any level are always discipline specific.

Well, now it gets its very own wall of text, complete with the line saying "It may only learn powers from the Psion Power List (Not including Specialist Psion Lists). Problem solved.

Earth power also requires constant psionic focus, technically 2 feats, and requires you to be standing on "stone or unworked earth", which is situational and often a bad move when you really should be flying. It's also a very powerful feat.

It's at Lv19. If I was being braindead and gave it at 10th level or something, then yeah, shout at me. But I hardly think 1pp less is going to break the game when 9th level spells/manuvers/+5 Greatswords of Uberness are being swung around. I can nerf it slightly, though.

Again, replies in bold.

[Hazzardevil]

Hey, Hazzardevil, your Horned Devil table is all messed up, has class abilities for a Scarrow, which as far as I can tell, is a 4th edition monster. I is confused.

And seriously, if you're going to work on a class in bits & pieces, it might be a good idea to just PM your work to yourself, or at the very least, spoiler your work.

In any event, someone already did the Horned Devil.

It didn't occur to me to PM it to myself so I could work on it in bits and pieces, I didn't see that horned devil before and to be honest it isn't what I think a horned devil should be.

The scorrow isn't a 4e monster, it's a drow/scorpoion hybrid in eberron which is very similer to the scorpionfolk, I don't know what the difference is suppose to be apart from teh scorrow is part drow.
I've given up on teh scorrow now, I've decided to try the horned devil instead.

[Mystic Muse]

It's a bad idea to do the horned devil unless the council has said it needs to be overhauled.