Witchunt V1.0 Game 3 - We are going to need more ducks

[byers2142]

Or crazy and making non-sequitors.

[editing for space in the quote]

Oh, and byers, this game kind of runs on voteswitching.

Really? Maybe I should wander over to the last game thread and read through it, see how things play out in these type of games. We're in no danger of a majority vote yet, so I think I have the time. For now, since you're actually trying to work things out (along with others like IF and a few others) and since Horoar and Mannikath say you did well in the other game, I'll switch to VA_beds for posting but not having a vote yet. Why not vote, even if it is day one?

And after the POTO game, I'd say you're not crazy. Making non-sequitors? Maybe. Crazy? No.

Now, I'm off for some late-night reading of the old thread.

[Sotek]

Ok, now as I need all the help I can get, I'm just going to ask for a few clarifications:

1)Day 1 Lynch is always a good thing right? I mean, the Witches will almost certainly kill someone on Night 1, and it's too much to hope for it will be the WW... So we want to at least try and even the odds? Or is it better to be cautious early on the off chance we lynch one of our own power roles?

D1 lynch is good if we lynch a weak townie (BOD/VH/wizard/leeroy - not that we lynch leeroy d1 ever/nun - ditto) or any scum - witch or werewolf.

If we lynch a power townie, that would suuuuuck, but power townies should do everything they can to avoid getting lynched, and that is why we will come out ahead by lynching today - if we hit a town, they will be a weak town, and thereby (almost) ensure we have GA majority for the rest of the game, which gives our power roles a lot more breathing room to reveal info, while costing us little. If we hit a scum, well, big surprise, we hit a scum and are happy about that.

If you look at the expected value of a lynch vs no-lynch: Lynching the BOD is slightly beneficial to town (we get someone cleared publicly via NK bounce, get a GA, Medium knows we lynched an innocent so can look for witches in the vote history, etc, all slightly overbalances the cost of, well, lynching a townie.) Lynching the VH is pretty neutral - we get Medium advantage, get a GA, lynch a townie. Both cases, not much is lost. Wizard, similarly, since he still makes the scum paranoid in endgame and gives us some extra chances so we lose little except a warm body.
Lynching scum is hugely beneficial to town, I don't think I even have to point this out.

Lynching a power role would be hugely detrimental ... but we're almost certain not to do it, as long as we're a bit careful.

So we're looking at a tiny chance of critical mistake, a somewhat larger chance of huge gain, and most of the time we basically mulligan between advantages and disadvantages, as long as we do a pressure-backoff approach, like we're doing.

[CitizenFry]

Another way of looking at it: if we don't at least try to lynch somebody today, what information do we gain for tomorrow? One priest check, and he probably isn't going to reveal that info any time soon, so we are probably in the same boat tomorrow, but with one less townie. If we actually vote and put pressure on people, we might snare a witch, we establish voting patterns, we give info to the Medium if the lynchee dies, or if the lynchee DOESN'T die that's info too.

[Crunchy English]

Gotcha, ok, well for the time being I'm holding on flea then. But as a newb, I will follow orders if someone gives me a better reasoning (that is to say, any real reasoning) to point at somebody else.

[CitizenFry]

Gotcha, ok, well for the time being I'm holding on flea then. But as a newb, I will follow orders if someone gives me a better reasoning (that is to say, any real reasoning) to point at somebody else.

You should vote for yourself, because the game has barely started, and already I have two of your posts flagged as "newbie scum".

[Onime-no-Enishi]

well looking at the votes, and i agree that getting a day 1 lynch would be beneficial, id vote for internet flea since he currently has the most votes atm.

though looking at the numbers we probably wont get a day 1 lynch unless everyone who hasnt voted votes for someone now =/ or people switch votes.

[byers2142]

And I'm just now reading through the posts for Day One in the last game, and I see what you mean about post swapping being ungodly important in this game. Ok, let's get swapping, then, and try and put some pressure on people. Sotek and IF (and Horoar to a lesser extent) have been the ones really pushing things thus far, but while Sotek has already stood up to a bit of pressure, Internet Flea hasn't. Sotek says he's mid-level important, so how important are you, IF?

[Internet Flea]

Let me check how many votes there are on me; my claim is dependant on that.

[Internet Flea]

Is that ten votes against me?

I don't think I can make my outlandish claim with ten votes. I'll just state that you really don't want to lynch me on Day 1.

I need fewer votes on me before I say more than that.

[Sotek]

Let me check how many votes there are on me; my claim is dependant on that.

Don't claim Wizard.


---------------------------------
Post Reference Link
Sotek's unofficial lynch vote tally. Please remember to specify all votes in red!
21 voters, therefore 11 is majority and 11 is deadlock
Internet Flea: 8 (Ramsus, Tydude, Crunchy English, Hipen3, Orzel, CitizenFry, Onime-no-Enishi, byers2142)
Hipen3: 2 (Internet Flea, Sotek)
CitizenFry: 1 (seraine)
Ramsus: 1 (Murska)
Sotek: 4 (Zanshin, Leta, Eternal Drifter, Qwaz)
seraine: 1 (Horoar)
Abstaining: 4 (Irbis, Istari, Mannikath, VA_beds)
---------------------------------

this is MY count.

[Gray Mage]

By my count, Sotek is right. I think it'd be best if when voting you said your previous role, like last game (ex: changing from X to Y)? It'd be a bit easier to see changes if you're not updating the votes constantly.

[Internet Flea]

Don't claim Wizard.


---------------------------------
Post Reference Link
Sotek's unofficial lynch vote tally. Please remember to specify all votes in red!
21 voters, therefore 11 is majority and 11 is deadlock
Internet Flea: 8 (Ramsus, Tydude, Crunchy English, Hipen3, Orzel, CitizenFry, Onime-no-Enishi, byers2142)
Hipen3: 2 (Internet Flea, Sotek)
CitizenFry: 1 (seraine)
Ramsus: 1 (Murska)
Sotek: 4 (Zanshin, Leta, Eternal Drifter, Qwaz)
seraine: 1 (Horoar)
Abstaining: 4 (Irbis, Istari, Mannikath, VA_beds)
---------------------------------

this is MY count.

Huh. So it is. In that case, I'm torn between the tactical fakeclaim and the stupid yet fun fakeclaim.

...screw it. I'm the Werewolf. Go lynch a witch.

[Sotek]

Huh. So it is. In that case, I'm torn between the tactical fakeclaim and the stupid yet fun fakeclaim.

...screw it. I'm the Werewolf. Go lynch a witch.

Well, I'm satisfied!

[Sotek]

ebwop: I think I know what IF is aiming at. And I think that we can ensure if he's a witch he doesn't actually gain, by making him the default DOB target.

And if he is werewolf, well, he was screwed by the luck of the draw, sadness for him, happy for us, and we just need to not make roleclaims he's willing to go after.

Mm. RULES QUESTION: Werewolf devour, does it make him immune to DOB? I've seen different rulings on that. Also, is he allowed to pull timing shenanigans? Are *we* allowed to?

(This matters, heh.)

[Gray Mage]

ebwop: I think I know what IF is aiming at. And I think that we can ensure if he's a witch he doesn't actually gain, by making him the default DOB target.

And if he is werewolf, well, he was screwed by the luck of the draw, sadness for him, happy for us, and we just need to not make roleclaims he's willing to go after.

Mm. RULES QUESTION: Werewolf devour, does it make him immune to DOB? I've seen different rulings on that. Also, is he allowed to pull timing shenanigans? Are *we* allowed to?

(This matters, heh.)

If he devours, yes he is. What do you mean by "timing shenanigans"?

[Sotek]

If he devours, yes he is. What do you mean by "timing shenanigans"?

Waiting till lynch to attempt a devour, and/or trying to push a lynch through before a devour is possible. (ie, some guy says "I'm the DOB! lynch me lynch me!")

[CitizenFry]

Is that ten votes against me?

I don't think I can make my outlandish claim with ten votes. I'll just state that you really don't want to lynch me on Day 1.

I need fewer votes on me before I say more than that.

You'll claim if you get LESS votes? That is... *facepalm*

...screw it. I'm the Werewolf. Go lynch a witch.

*facepalm*

Really hope you're not important town, since you are now the default DOB target.

Not sure why people let Sotek off the hook with admitted "obvious fakeclaim", wtf people.

[byers2142]

...screw it. I'm the Werewolf. Go lynch a witch.

You owe me a towel to wipe off my desk from where I spit out water after that comment. Two-ply, if you please. So now that we have your tactical claim, what's the stupid yet fun claim?

So, who else deserves a look? Hipen3 got Internet Flea's vote because he hit lucky 17 on the entry list, but why are you pointing at him, Sotek? For now, I'll switch from Internet Flea to seraine, hoping Horoar picked up on something I'm missing.

[Crunchy English]

I think I might be really bad at this game. My instincts are telling me to actually believe IF. If that's not the most tactically unsound thing a human being as ever done in a Werewolf game, it must be a close second. Let's see here, Citizen Fry has done a lot of facepalming and suspicion-rousing (and totally called me scum, not that I'm a petty jerk who would let that factor into it*) What say you, Citizen?

(*Note: I'm a petty jerk and that's totally factoring into it.)

[Crunchy English]

Whoops, stupid error, my bad... Citizen Fry Just happened to hit the wrong button. But still, read it with the emphasis, it sounds cooler that way.

[Crunchy English]

Ok, Newb-town, population me. Just to clarify. Switching my vote from Internet Flea to Citizen Fry

Having managed to screw that up twice, I'm going to go trying tying my shoelaces and make sure I still have an IQ over 65

[Sotek]

Not sure why people let Sotek off the hook with admitted "obvious fakeclaim", wtf people.

Because they don't want to lynch me d1, and do you really think I'm gonna say any more? I don't, especially not with a fricken' WW claimant out there.

But c'mon. You know if I'm scum I'll get caught later, I don't stand a chance of survival as scum.

So, who else deserves a look? Hipen3 got Internet Flea's vote because he hit lucky 17 on the entry list, but why are you pointing at him, Sotek? For now, I'll switch from Internet Flea to seraine, hoping Horoar picked up on something I'm missing.

Well, I selected from the list of guys with votes on them - I'm generally a fan of vaguely-consolidated pressure.

His vote for Internet Flea felt a tiny bit scummy (yeah yeah randavotes, reading into them is so hard whatever), while Seraine's randavote felt slightly less scummy.

uhhh, who else had votes on them. Internet Flea, who had said a bit so I moved off, Sotek who I am opposed to voting, Ramsus, and CitizenFry. And I think I was picking between Hipan and seraine because they had posted recently.

It's still pretty random.

[Sotek]

Tally update:


---------------------------------
Post Reference Link
Sotek's unofficial lynch vote tally. Please remember to specify all votes in red!
21 voters, therefore 11 is majority and 11 is deadlock
Internet Flea: 5 (Ramsus, Tydude, Hipen3, Orzel, Onime-no-Enishi)
Hipen3: 2 (Internet Flea, Sotek)
CitizenFry: 2 (seraine, Crunchy English)
Ramsus: 1 (Murska)
Sotek: 5 (Zanshin, Leta, Eternal Drifter, Qwaz, CitizenFry)
seraine: 2 (Horoar, byers2142)
Abstaining: 4 (Irbis, Istari, Mannikath, VA_beds)
---------------------------------

[Istari]

Temporary point at CitizenFry

Don't know what to make of all this yet, but lynching IF isn't likely to help us, he could still be a witch, but he sounds sincere.

[Horoar]

Good morning everyone.
Seriously claiming WW IF?
Why are we releaving pressure on Internet Flea. He's got more to say. Unless he actually is afraid of the lynch.

(Ok that doesn't really make a lot of sense, but i'll leave it till breakfast)

[Sotek]

There are 0 worlds where lynching IF is the right play, imo.

If he is werewolf, obviously wasting a lynch on him is -town.
If he is town, lynching him is like, ---town.
If he's a witch, lynching him is kind of okay, but the DOB will take him out eventually anyway, and we can lynch him later - one or two witches alive when spy claims doesn't stop us from winning, after all.

So ... don't lynch him, don't pressure him, jegus. I don't want to hear anything else from that guy.

[Horoar]

Who is this abstaining guy? He's got the next most votes... [/sarcasm]

Fine I'll switch off IF when someone better gets some pressure on him.

[Gray Mage]

Waiting till lynch to attempt a devour, and/or trying to push a lynch through before a devour is possible. (ie, some guy says "I'm the DOB! lynch me lynch me!")

If you guys push a bandwagon too quickly (say, in less than a day and a half), the WW will be given a chance to respond. The same goes if he devours right before the deadline, there will be an extension to the day.

[VA_beds]

Really? Maybe I should wander over to the last game thread and read through it, see how things play out in these type of games. We're in no danger of a majority vote yet, so I think I have the time. For now, since you're actually trying to work things out (along with others like IF and a few others) and since Horoar and Mannikath say you did well in the other game, I'll switch to VA_beds for posting but not having a vote yet. Why not vote, even if it is day one?

And after the POTO game, I'd say you're not crazy. Making non-sequitors? Maybe. Crazy? No.

Now, I'm off for some late-night reading of the old thread.

because at the time sotek was at lynch-3 and no one else had more than a single vote

so pressure now onto hipen3

[VA_beds]

i guess no witches wanted the boat and party.... 8(