General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

[Yuki Akuma]

Exaltations don't instantly go from one host to another - they spend a bit of time without a host. They just happen to spend that time in Lytek's office while he performs routine maintainence.

They're programmed to go there. Abyssal and Infernal Exaltations aren't - because it'd be pretty stupid if you could simply destroy the Montrances of Celestial Portion/the Phylactery-Womb and Lytek automatically got his hands on your warped Exaltations.

Also, nitpick: Primordials are very smart. They're just incapable of thinking outside their themes.

[The Rose Dragon]

Also, nitpick: Primordials are very smart. They're just incapable of thinking outside their themes.

Technically, they can spend Willpower to get a Virtue in dice for a single action, but they are not likely to do it, since that requires recognizing their themes aren't all that is necessary.

[Rikandur Azebol]

We are talking Yozi's here, they have "built" in "limiters", by victorious Solars.

And yes, from what I read about Lytek he can't hold Exaltations for long, merely for checkup and to illegally download memories. Most likely he would be unable to do much with Abyssal and/or Infernal Exaltations. He's just a technician, not engineer.

[Yuki Akuma]

No, Primordials are exactly the same. They embody their themes so completely that they have to spend willpower to act outside of them, and have trouble even conceptualising anything outside of them.

Also it has been explicitly stated that Lytek could fix a Green Sun Prince exaltation easily enough, and Abyssal exaltations are easier to fix.

Heck, Solar artifact makers worked out Abyssal exaltations before the Neverborn did.

[Lochar]

Also it has been explicitly stated that Lytek coulod fix a Green Sun Prince exaltation easily enough, and Abyssal exaltations are easier to fix.

Yeah, it just requires the death of the GSP. Abyssals not so much, but they still require free will to do so.

Heck, Solar artifact makers worked out Abyssal exaltations before the Neverborn did.

Where's this one at?

[Yuki Akuma]

Yeah, it just requires the death of the GSP. Abyssals not so much, but they still require free will to do so.


Where's this one at?

See, there's this mirror that can flip a Solar's exaltation over to Abyssal...

I have no idea what book it's in.

[Tavar]

And yes, from what I read about Lytek he can't hold Exaltations for long, merely for checkup and to illegally download memories. Most likely he would be unable to do much with Abyssal and/or Infernal Exaltations. He's just a technician, not engineer.

Canon wise, he can 'fix' an infernal exaltation, because that exaltation was changed by essentially gluing things to a solar shard. Abyssals are more difficult, because the shard themselves has been changed in some way; for that you need the abyssal, The Unconquered Sun, or Autochthon to actually fix them. Coincidentally, Abyssals are the ones who actually need to be fixed.

[Yuki Akuma]

That's not actually true. The Solar/Abyssal switch is almost literally just like flipping a switch. It was done by the Neverborn - who are incapable of making new things. At least Yozis can still create stuff - just not on the scale they used to be able to.

GSP exaltations are the ones that have been tinkered with. No 'gluing' involved.

[The Rose Dragon]

See, there's this mirror that can flip a Solar's exaltation over to Abyssal...

I have no idea what book it's in.

It's a bit more complex. The Black Mirror does change a Solar greatly, but it doesn't actually make them an Abyssal, merely allows them to use Abyssal Charms until their next limit break, gives them Whispers and temporarily turns them into creatures of darkness outside Fate. It also wasn't built by Exalted, if it was built by anyone. The Solar artificers aren't even allowed to analyze the artifact, by the Hierophant's order.

That's not actually true. The Solar/Abyssal switch is almost literally just like flipping a switch. It was done by the Neverborn - who are incapable of making new things. At least Yozis can still create stuff - just not on the scale they used to be able to.

GSP exaltations are the ones that have been tinkered with. No 'gluing' involved.

The Solar - Abyssal switch is like inverting the Essence flows of an Exaltation. It cannot, however, be reversed by anyone but the Exalt himself. It is a simple but essential change to the Exaltation that doesn't leave anything to be fixed.

The Green Sun Princes are basically Solar Exaltations with lots of vitriolic gunk on it. The core of the Exaltation remains inaccessible to the Exalt himself, except to power his Charms, so the Infernal himself cannot change his nature, but it is fairly easy for the creators and caretakers to scrub it off, if they can capture the Exaltation.

[Lochar]

So what book, TRD?

[Rikandur Azebol]

Huh ? From what I read Lytek can't alter Exaltations. Abyssal ones are Solar-reversed, and Lytek lacks equipment ... but given time might stumble on the resolution by trial and error. Infernal Ones are ... tweaked in a more subtle way. They aren't reversed Solar Exaltations, but are remade into something significantly distinct. Infernal splatbook states that Lytek is well over his head if he tries to "fix" Infernal Exaltation.

I wonder if GSPs should have Essence 6 charm "Incarnate Mockery of Principle" that lets them acquire US's charms.^^

[The Rose Dragon]

So what book, TRD?

Lands of Creation, the West chapter.

[Yuki Akuma]

I wonder if GSPs should have Essence 6 charm "Incarnate Mockery of Principle" that lets them acquire US's charms.^^

There's no reason to assume they couldn't do that with sufficient Devil-Tiger twinkery.

Holy charms would still be beyond them though, unless they can get themselves struck from the "Creature of Darkness" list.

[Tavar]

That's not actually true. The Solar/Abyssal switch is almost literally just like flipping a switch. It was done by the Neverborn - who are incapable of making new things. At least Yozis can still create stuff - just not on the scale they used to be able to.

GSP exaltations are the ones that have been tinkered with. No 'gluing' involved.

I'm pretty sure that it's come up before that Lytek actually can't change an Abyssal into a Solar, nor change an Abyssal shard into a Solar Shard. But he can change a GSP shard into a Solar shard, because the things that make it different are simply 'g....
Wait. Found what I was looking for. http://nobilis.me/quotes:damnation-101

Lytek can't restore an Abyssal Exaltation, but he can restore an Infernal one. This goes back to an issue of frequency. In the case of Abyssals, the frequency of the Solar Exaltation has been changed beyond his power to do anything about it. This is a very underboard way of saying it has been deeply tainted and inverted in such a way that is has not been fundamentally changed, only warped, and it is beyond his ability to restore it, as he cannot influence Exaltations internally to change how they function. Infernal Exaltations are just frontloading a ton of Primordial charm technology, mutations if you will, that he can scrape off the Exaltation and restore it. It is surface-level change. Infernal Exaltation similar to just wrapping a perishable temporary Exaltation over the imperishable Solar Exaltation, so it's kind of using the Solar "shard" as a battery pack.

[TheCountAlucard]

Speaking of Infernals, I briefly had this thought, wanted to see if it had merit...

Many Charms in the Adorjan Charmset are limited by the fact that you have to be going as fast as possible for the Charms to function. With them, however, you can run so fast that you can go up walls, dash across water, or even go invisible or fly.

The thought I had here was, "What's the absolute slowest you can go to actually pull these things off?" Yes, you have to be going as fast as you can in order for the Charms to work, but if you can be outpaced by a starting character while doing so, that'd just look silly, now wouldn't it?

"Wait, he's going so fast that he's invisible, but I'm running faster than him, and everyone can see me just fine?"

Any ideas for this?

[The Rose Dragon]

Adorjan is not about being fast. Adorjan is about being the wind. There is no such thing as a still wind, and there is no such thing as a still Adorjan. As such, Adorjan moves, constantly, and the wind moves with her - for the wind is her. As such, her Charms are not about moving fast, but about moving without end.

[TheCountAlucard]

Adorjan is not about being fast. Adorjan is about being the wind. There is no such thing as a still wind, and there is no such thing as a still Adorjan. As such, Adorjan moves, constantly, and the wind moves with her - for the wind is her. As such, her Charms are not about moving fast, but about moving without end.

Still, the Charms specify that you have to be moving at your maximum possible speed in order to activate them/keep them active. My query was to see just how slow-moving a Scourge could actually be.

[Yuki Akuma]

Adorjan doesn't become invisible because she's moving quickly. Adorjan is invisible because Adorjan is invisible.

Adorjan's "velocity" charms require you to be moving at your top speed to use them because you have to be Adorjan to use Adorjan's charms, and Adorjan is always moving at top speed.

[golentan]

Guys, I think you're overlooking the larger issue: Fluff on the nature of exaltation is borked. Abyssal redemption has a million contradictory things said about redemption, even leaving off the nonsense we could get into about the monstrances. GSPs we know can't be fixed while the exalt lives, but is contradictory on whether it's superficial or deep down structural change.

[The Rose Dragon]

Still, the Charms specify that you have to be moving at your maximum possible speed in order to activate them/keep them active. My query was to see just how slow-moving a Scourge could actually be.

2 yards per tick, assuming you have enough penalties to bring your dashing speed that low.

[Jokasti]

We should write standardized Exaltation fluff.

[DeadManSleeping]

We should write standardized Exaltation fluff.

...*ahem*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xEfUh6dSpk

Seriously, man, if people being PAID to be relatively consistent managed to make the mishmash that Exalted is now, how well do you think a bunch of forumites will perform? Seriously, if you can get five people to form a complete consensus on that kind of topic, I will guarantee you at least one of them will be wishing something was at least a little different. Standardized. Pfeh.

[Jokasti]

/cries
I believe in the heart of the cards forum!

[Tavar]

Well, it appears that quite a few of them aren't paid to be consistent with it. Heck, the developers admit that they were inconsistent within the same book(Infernals, I believe).

But, yeah, there are wildly different views on this forum regarding what's good vs what's not.

[The Rose Dragon]

Well, it appears that quite a few of them aren't paid to be consistent with it. Heck, the developers admit that they were inconsistent within the same book(Infernals, I believe).

But, yeah, there are wildly different views on this forum regarding what's good vs what's not.

We need some sort of standardized test to make things simpler. I suggest making everything I like good and everything I don't bad.

[Tavar]

Wow, you're a mind reader! I was going to suggest the exact same thing, word for word!

[DeadManSleeping]

Guys, if you want something standardized, it's best to confer with your playgroup. Even if we did manage to get some consensus on this forum, I highly doubt you'll ever play an Exalted game in which every player and the ST all take part in this thread. To them, the consensus will be meaningless, or at least, of no more weight than what is said in the actual books (and probably less).

That said, I still think we'd never manage to get it down to less than three disparate viewpoints. And that's just the standard Celestial Exaltations.

[Jokasti]

That's stupid because Abyssals are stupid.
How's this for starters?
§Auto-kun created 700 physical "Exaltations"
--Could be changed to say 500 for Solars and Lunars, or even 300 Sidereal ones (of which only 100 are currently out) or other personal changes. I personally like 100 of every caste and 50 for Sidereals. More Solars= more Abyssals/Infernals.
§Of these, 300 were Solar, 300 Lunar, and 100 sidereal pre-war
--Could be changed as appropriate for previous tweak.
§After the war, Lytek was appointed God of Exaltation, charged with wiping most of the memories of the previous life, with some left over for instruction (finding tombs, learning charms, etc).
§Exaltations can at any point, while not bound to a soul, choose a soul within the purview of Fate to bind the Exaltation to.
--Solars have to be courageous or awesome
--Lunars have to have some element of survival
--Sidereals are fated to Exalt, I forget their criteria

I'm on my phone so this is getting long to type, any more suggestions?

[Fortuna]

It's my understanding that there are no criteria for Sidereals. Rather, the child is fated from birth to Exalt, and the Exaltation must bond with it at the appropriate time. The fate alters the child's disposition to match their intended caste.

[Yuki Akuma]

You have to have a heroic soul to Exalt as a Sidereal. Although that doesn't really change anything because Fate will only choose someone born with a heroic soul or someone fated to become heroic at some point.