LGBTAitp - Part Twelve

[Lix Lorn]

There wouldn't be any issue, but that you feel the need to fall over yourself apologizing for it makes one become apparent.

I do that a lot.

[Coidzor]

I do that a lot.

Have you figured out why?

[Lix Lorn]

Have you figured out why?

I'd guess that it leads back into my constant self-analysis. I see something in myself and try to work out what it means, and then I see unfortunate implications that I apologise for when no-one else would even have bothered seeing them. Or cared if they had, most likely.

[Mina Kobold]

Well, I THINK I have a preference for girls. I know that if I were to have sex before transitioning, it would be with a girl...
However, afterwards I'm not sure. I think I'm just drawn to wanting a heterosexual relationship. That probably indicates bad things in my subconscious. Sorry.

Why? That may just be your preference, a heterosexual relationship no matter what gender you are at the moment.

I hope I didn't make it worse now, sorry if I did. I'm horrible at cheering people up. T_T

I do that a lot.

Me too, my parents keep tellingme not to apologise, then I apologise for apologising... ^_^'

I strangely avoid self-analysis, though. Considering that I ended up in deep depression last time I tried. T_T

But I'm better and cuddlier now! :D

*Cuddles Lix to make her feel better*

[Serpentine]

Sorry to be a voice of contention, but... it does seem odd for your sexual preference to be based on what sex you are I guess if you're bisexual, and you like either anyway...

[Mystic Muse]

On a related note, are trans people who aren't bi/pan more likely to be attracted to the same gender as the one they transition to or the opposite one?

I don't know any trans people, living in the country equivalent of a friendly but very small and rather old-fashioned village, and not being in any LGBT communities.

I'm not transitioning right now, but at least at the moment, I'd assume I'd still find girls attractive once I did.

[Coidzor]

Lix:

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Are you certain that you've eliminated the possibility that it's self-deprecation born of/contributing to additional factors rather than true analysis? It seems at times that you're only looking for/having only negative self-talk go on. Though much more than this would probably be better discussed in the Depression thread...

Sorry to be a voice of contention, but... it does seem odd for your sexual preference to be based on what sex you are I guess if you're bisexual, and you like either anyway...

Is this in reply to anyone in particular? Because I... kinda see three ways of reading that and replying to it

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If it's Kenderwizard's query, I don't think it was asking quite that question of why trans individuals are attracted to who they are, but more of a question of relative incidence and frequency.

I can also see how some people might prefer to avoid certain sexual encounters/partners prior to SRS but being willing to pursue them afterward. Certainly, if one is MtF, dealing with bisexual female partners would be a bit more ...straightforward(ish...) than the potential pool of male partners available during the various phases of transition, with or without SRS. Seems like something in general male culture would still complicate things further for bisexual men than it would for bisexual women, but I can't fully articulate it. :/

And if you were actually referring to the general issue of homo/hetero instead of andro/gyno, it's seems to be mostly due to general cultural emphasis on heteronormativity and tradition as far as I can tell.

KenderWizard: As far as relative incidences/frequency, I can't believe that no one has thought to track that in the data they've gathered in trans studies. But it's not something that I find very likely to have been studied in and of itself, and I'm not getting any hits on abstracts on JSTOR, so I have no idea where else to look.

[Gaelbert]

I came out in real life today for the first time. I wasn't planning on it, I just happened to overhear an argument with someone who was saying all people choose their preferences. I got pretty irritated and I guess it just slipped out. I wasn't really planning on doing that any time soon, and I'm not sure how I feel about this happening.

[golentan]

I came out in real life today for the first time. I wasn't planning on it, I just happened to overhear an argument with someone who was saying all people choose their preferences. I got pretty irritated and I guess it just slipped out. I wasn't really planning on doing that any time soon, and I'm not sure how I feel about this happening.

Gratz?

In comic news, I've settled on a preferred gender symbol.

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This actually happened. Someone asked me if I was trans or genderqueer when I described my favorite dress. Just tongue in cheek.

[KenderWizard]

*snip*

KenderWizard: As far as relative incidences/frequency, I can't believe that no one has thought to track that in the data they've gathered in trans studies. But it's not something that I find very likely to have been studied in and of itself, and I'm not getting any hits on abstracts on JSTOR, so I have no idea where else to look.

Yes, I imagine someone must have some data on this, but I don't know where to look for it either. For some reason, the geological archives are very silent on gender and sexuality issues. Thank you for taking a look!

I came out in real life today for the first time. I wasn't planning on it, I just happened to overhear an argument with someone who was saying all people choose their preferences. I got pretty irritated and I guess it just slipped out. I wasn't really planning on doing that any time soon, and I'm not sure how I feel about this happening.

Well done for being able to stand up for yourself, though. I hope you decide you made the right choice, it sounds to me like you did.

Edit: Fixing quote.

[Lix Lorn]

Sorry to be a voice of contention, but... it does seem odd for your sexual preference to be based on what sex you are I guess if you're bisexual, and you like either anyway...

If that was in response to me, I feel the need to clarify: I'm attracted to either sex at any given time, but I'd only want to be doing to happysexy fun times either with a girl, as a girl, or both. (Considering the whole 'Not gonna have sex before transitioning', this is mostly irrelevant.

Lix:

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Are you certain that you've eliminated the possibility that it's self-deprecation born of/contributing to additional factors rather than true analysis? It seems at times that you're only looking for/having only negative self-talk go on. Though much more than this would probably be better discussed in the Depression thread...

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Nope, it's quite likely that I'm just far more lacking in self-respect and pride than I think, but I have no idea how to start dealing with that. (shrug) I spend half the time happy and half the time sad, when I'm happy I don't wanna think about it, and when I'm sad I'm too busy trawling the internet for hugs to do anything.

[Coidzor]

In comic news, I've settled on a preferred gender symbol.

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...Now I want to see someone do a Stick-Broseidon Avatar thanks to this.

I came out in real life today for the first time. I wasn't planning on it, I just happened to overhear an argument with someone who was saying all people choose their preferences. I got pretty irritated and I guess it just slipped out. I wasn't really planning on doing that any time soon, and I'm not sure how I feel about this happening.

Good luck. Sorry but anything more intelligent is slipping my mind, atm.

Yes, I imagine someone must have some data on this, but I don't know where to look for it either. For some reason, the geological archives are very silent on gender and sexuality issues. Thank you for taking a look!

Well, my search skills are lackluster at best, so I wouldn't write it off completely until someone more competent at the finding things game went through there and related places... I think, offhand, Serpentine is the only person in these parts that's demonstrated consistent savviness with such things that still shows up. Can't think of any other current users who have demonstrated this skill or access to/familiarity with such resources in the past.

[Asta Kask]

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Nope, it's quite likely that I'm just far more lacking in self-respect and pride than I think, but I have no idea how to start dealing with that. (shrug) I spend half the time happy and half the time sad, when I'm happy I don't wanna think about it, and when I'm sad I'm too busy trawling the internet for hugs to do anything.

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Sounds like you need Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It supposedly helps you deal with bad self-respect and pride by changing the way you think. *shrug* It helped me some.

Just don't go to the marines for help.

[Jokasti]

...Now I want to see someone do a Stick-Broseidon Avatar thanks to this. .[/SIZE]

I think you mean Broseidon, Lord of the Broceans.

[Lix Lorn]

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Sounds like you need Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It supposedly helps you deal with bad self-respect and pride by changing the way you think. *shrug* It helped me some.

Just don't go to the marines for help.

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Maybe? (shrugs)

School net, can't see. :(

[AugustNights]

Question regarding current terms:

I used to understand "gender identity" to refer to the gender one identifies and associates with best. But it seems it is now used as a synonym for gender, or perhaps has replaced gender as the personality traits of a person rather than their biological sex. Does anyone know the going term for 'gender group identified and associated with?'

For example, by my old terms I am:
Sex: Biologically Male
Gender: Male or Lazy Androgyn
Gender Identity: Female.

[Mina Kobold]

Question regarding current terms:

I used to understand "gender identity" to refer to the gender one identifies and associates with best. But it seems it is now used as a synonym for gender, or perhaps has replaced gender as the personality traits of a person rather than their biological sex. Does anyone know the going term for 'gender group identified and associated with?'

For example, by my old terms I am:
Sex: Biologically Male
Gender: Male or Lazy Androgyn
Gender Identity: Female.

We discussed this and it turned out that gender originally meant the same as sex, but is now used to reffer to what those that still hang on to old stuff like Beatles and gender being a synonym for sex call gender identity.

I think, I am not sure what you use gender for so... ^_^'

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Nope, it's quite likely that I'm just far more lacking in self-respect and pride than I think, but I have no idea how to start dealing with that. (shrug) I spend half the time happy and half the time sad, when I'm happy I don't wanna think about it, and when I'm sad I'm too busy trawling the internet for hugs to do anything.

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That sounds bad, I don't have much self-respect or pride left either but if you ever need a hug or to let off some steam then I will be happy to help.

[Lix Lorn]

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That sounds bad, I don't have much self-respect or pride left either but if you ever need a hug or to let off some steam then I will be happy to help.

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Thanks, but I am currently in hyperactive up phase. That said, hugs=yes. (hugs!)

[Mecharious]

I almost always use the term gender, just because I can imagine this situation happening...

Person 1: Hey, I just got a new dog?
Person 2: What sex?
Person 1: What? I don't want sex!
Person 2: No, I meant what gender is the dog?

[Coidzor]

I almost always use the term gender, just because I can imagine this situation happening...

Person 1: Hey, I just got a new dog?
Person 2: What sex?
Person 1: What? I don't want sex!
Person 2: No, I meant what gender is the dog?

Weird, I have never run into that situation before except with people who decided they would prefer to be enemies rather than coexist peacefully.

... What is the male equivalent of ***** anyway, is just dog? I know it's sire and dam for whelping...

Chumplump:

For example, by my old terms I am:
Sex: Biologically Male
Gender: Male or Lazy Androgyn
Gender Identity: Female.

So you're saying that you're MtF trans but that your find/feel that your personality traits are more masculine or androgynous-to-masculine? Did I get your meaning correctly there? I'm not really getting you when it comes to the Lazy part though.

And by identify with, do you mean the gender role that they have or another way of saying whether one is cis/trans/genderqueer(?)?

Generally, the word personality seems to be modified with either masculine/feminine/androgynous/neuter/X in order to distinguish it from gender as it applies to whether one is trans or cis or whether one has X genitalia or Y genitalia. Since gender can be either or something else entirely, generally either context or defining one's terms is considered necessary and happens. Sex (without context making it intercourse of course) generally refers to one's physical status viz. genitalia most often, with things getting more complicated in regards to transitioning, but I don't really know because it's a delicate subject that people don't really like to talk about much so I'm unsure of the proper etiquette or linguistics.

Lix:

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All the more reason to consider it now while you have energy rather than being bereft of will when the next down comes. Because the way you've described that set up brings to mind, well, certain things that it would be good to either confirm aren't going on or deal with if they are.

[rayne_dragon]

Well, my search skills are lackluster at best, so I wouldn't write it off completely until someone more competent at the finding things game went through there and related places... I think, offhand, Serpentine is the only person in these parts that's demonstrated consistent savviness with such things that still shows up. Can't think of any other current users who have demonstrated this skill or access to/familiarity with such resources in the past.

Presuming I am tracking this conversation back to the correct question, I came up with two links two links, both of which are rather limited as they are mostly based on hearsay. Although the second one has some links to old Savage Love columns, so....

Then I realized that I know where to find useful trans-related links and found this. It actually has sources and mentions scientific studies.

Keep in mind that any study done involving trans individuals is likely to be skewed due to the "stealth factor." I'd also like to note that most books on transsexuals don't get too into detail about trans' sexuality. Most of the ones I've read say it is hard to get an accurate measure, through out some rough estimates, and move on to other topics.

[Coidzor]

Well, that's rather depressing.

[rayne_dragon]

What is depressing, exactly? You were delightfully vague in precisely what you were referring to.

[Serpentine]

Eywot? Well after that I couldn't go unchallenged...
Haven't read through them properly and I can't see any actual statistics, but these papers at least examine sexuality in transexuals. And there's also this citation, but I couldn't find it online: Coleman, E. and Bockting, W. O. (1988) `Heterosexual' prior to sex-reassignment, `homosexual' afterwards: a case-study of a female-to-male transexual. Journal of Psychology and Human Sexuality, (2), 69–82.

[golentan]

So... a really stupid joke occurred to me earlier today. A few minutes of work later, and... umm...

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Edit: (I hope it's laugh-worthy rather than "we're never speaking to you again" worthy)

[Coidzor]

I'm mostly confused by the dress having Mickey on it. Seems like something they'd put Minnie on.

[Lioness]

So... a really stupid joke occurred to me earlier today. A few minutes of work later, and... umm...

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Edit: (I hope it's laugh-worthy rather than "we're never speaking to you again" worthy)

For a while I was like

But now I get it. That's funny!

[Skeppio]

So... a really stupid joke occurred to me earlier today. A few minutes of work later, and... umm...

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*snip*

Edit: (I hope it's laugh-worthy rather than "we're never speaking to you again" worthy)

I didn't get it at first, but then I laughed.

[Mystic Muse]

This is kind of off topic but are there any LGBTA banners or will I have to make my own?

EDIT: Also, this is kind of an odd question but I wish to know. If you're transsexual, but have yet to transition, and are attracted to the same sex you know yourself to be and only that sex, would that make you a Lesbian/gay or not until you transition?

[Mecharious]

...I still don't get it.