That's ONLY CR 9??? Let's Read: The Monster Manual II

[Archwizard]

No worries, pretty sure we were all cool with you picking up where he left off. See above re: Deathbringer :)

[Darthteej]

DEMONS

Remember reaching the "D-G" section in the monster manual,and it's 50 or so pages of demons, devils, dinosaurs, dragons, elemental,giants, and golems? Well, the MMII continues that proud tradition, which is part of the reason I've been putting this off for so long. Well, that and school. And ponies. Fact is, there's only so much witty/observational commentary I can get out of the same group of monster. At least these demons are fairly divrse. , let's get started shall we?


Abyssal Maw
See that thing up there with the four arms and the big mouth? First observation: though it looks kind of ferociously adorable, it's actually 6 feet tall . Second, doesen't it kind of look like that character from AHH! Real Monsters(which I didn't actually watch as a kid, but you know...). Aside from the amusing design, there's really not much interesting about it. A friend of mine likes to call monsters like these "bullcrap" monsters.They're not based on mythology, or even good design, but rather a result of someone panicking in their office an hour before a deadline and trying to convince themselves that a bipedal mouth is a great addition to the planar cosmology(See also: Slaad).

Anyway, they're very good at what they do. Having a Warrior HD chasis, and 17 strength, gives it a good chance to punch through armor, and their bite attack is more powerful than standard for medium creatures. The thing to watch out for is their Rend the Fallen ability, which gives them another bite attack when they put someone into negatives, for 2d8+4 damage. Again , . Fair warning to low level sorcerers/wizards, stay out of biting range!

Challenge Rating: It's listed as a 1.5, so on the weak end of CR 2. I'm going to say that it's accurate as is though, just because of the fact that it's bite damage combined with the Rend can drop a 1st level fighter in one attack. Therefore, I've taken the liberty of counting it's overly powerful bite attack as a special attack.

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11 divided by 4.5(2 HD), about 2 1/2.
Armor Class: 15(+1)
Special Attacks:Rend the Fallen, Oversized Bite(+2)
Special Qualities: Outsider traits(snicker) (+0)
Bonus Feats: None(+0)
Challenge Rating: 1.85, low end of 2.

Abyssal Skulker
"Okay, okay, so we've all had sleep, and by sleep I mean 12 gallons of cofee. So, man, I can't believe they thought that, that, whatever the hell that was was a good idea! Abyssal Maw, what the frak were you on man? Seriously though, what next?"

"I know, I know! How about a four armed(no we just did that), errr... four legged creature dog with a bug mouth!"

"*Laughs*. Okay, okay, does it have any special qualities?"

"Nope."

"Okay cool, job well done. Jesus, Wizards thinks everything's a good idea now. "

Such could only have been the design process of the Abyssal Skulker. Just look at it. It's pretty much the same thing as a fiendish housecat, in terms of stats.

Challenge Rating: It's only 1.15, and that's because of HD. Granted, their fluff mentions they move in packs, and that's the only way you're milking anything out of this. At least a fight with chaotic evil housecats would be funny.

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11 HP divided by 4.5: About 2 1/2 (2 HD)
Armor Class:15(+1)
Special Attacks: Nil(+0)
Special Qualities: Out- AHAHAHAHA, oh, Outsider Traits (+0).
Bonus Feats: None (+0)
Challenge Rating: 1.15

Abyssal Ravager

"When I was a child, I dreamed of being an astronaut. And you know what? I actually worked toward it. I would spend days reading books on space, I watched all the documentaries about Neil Armstrong, and then he actually visited my school! Can you imagine it? I kept my hand raised the entire time during his presentation, because I wanted to know everything.

In high school I began to pursue serious education in mathematics and physics. I was a straight A student. I also played Dungeons and Dragons. I started to slack off in classes anyway, and that didn't help. I spent hours when I should have studied just playing around with friends. Eventually I got good at writing, and had a friend who had a friend who was a game designer. Now I'm sitting here, it's 3:00 AM in the morning, and look at what we did. Just look at that picture. I could have been an astronaut. Instead people won't remember me as the designer of that."

"So that's a go-ahead on the Abyssal Ravager?"

"...Yes."

Challenge Rating: Okay, that had better be as funny as it seems at 3 in the morning, because I really don't have much more to say about this It's got some fancy qualities for it's low level nature, including large size, poison, resistances, and scent. These all combine to make it CR 4. Now that's not supposed to happen, but it's got enough bonuses and a big enough CON that I'd feel comfortable running it against 4th levelers.

Frankly, I think the resistances are overkill: the max amount of acid damage a spellcaster could deal at that level is 8, and the max amount of cold damage is 3. I'd personally run it as a sort of boss monster at low levels, and mabye use it as a hit and run monster at slightly higher levels, especially combined with Combat Reflexes.Strength damage isn't fun.

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22 divided by 4.5: About 5(3 HD)
Armor Class: 17(+1)
Special Attacks: Poison(+1)
Special Qualities: Immunity to Posion, Resitance to Cold 20, Resitance to Acid 20, Scent (+5)
Bonus Feats: It's actually lacking the feats for it's HD. Again. Seriously, who edited this book? Anyway, conversion guide suggests Combat Reflexes. (+0)
Challenge Rating: 4. Sounds about right.

[Runestar]

The fiendish codex errata pegged the ravager at cr3, IIRC. Also, I have a hard time viewing the skulker as a serious threat. It's attack does what - 2 times 1d2 damage? It will be a long time before it pings the wizard to death!

[Darthteej]

The fiendish codex errata pegged the ravager at cr3, IIRC. Also, I have a hard time viewing the skulker as a serious threat. It's attack does what - 2 times 1d2 damage? It will be a long time before it pings the wizard to death!

Actually, it's 1d2 flat. The only way this thing's going to be any threat is to give it Crusader Levels

[Razz]

I'm pretty sure most of the resistances in MM2 should be cut in half, as per 3.5e rules. They forgot to fix those in the conversions (same with Fiend Folio). Being demons, I think their resistances should be in line more with tanar'ri, who have resistances of 10.

[Darthteej]

I'm pretty sure most of the resistances in MM2 should be cut in half, as per 3.5e rules. They forgot to fix those in the conversions (same with Fiend Folio). Being demons, I think their resistances should be in line more with tanar'ri, who have resistances of 10.

Hmm, that would take the CR of the ravager down to 3, or close to it.

[noparlpf]

Has anybody brought up the Bugbear Zombie? It's supposedly CR 2. It has 42 hp, DR 5/slashing, AC 16, speed 30', +6 to attack and 1d8+3 damage. It's supposed to be the boss in a 1st-level adventure WotC published and it TPKed a group of new players I was teaching (it killed a couple of the PCs in one shot...). On the other hand, a 1st-level party of four designed by me rather than by new players would probably slaughter it... So who here thinks it's actually CR 2?

[Archwizard]

What page of the Monster Manual II is that on?

[noparlpf]

What page of the Monster Manual II is that on?

Oh, that says "II". I read it as "I" for some reason. Yeah, Bugbear Zombie is MM I. Never mind then.

[No brains]

The Abyssal Maw is actually Grimace. Yes. THAT Grimace. He is purple with a big mouth in his modern form, yes, but he was originally a four-armed villain to Ronald McDonald who liked to steal fast food.

See, it's not as stupid as you thought it was!It's WORSE!

Now I want to make a McDonald's-themed module. "Revenge of the King of Burgers", perhaps?

[Darthteej]

What page of the Monster Manual II is that on?

The demons entry starts on 56, but these critters extend to 57.

[Amechra]

Has anybody brought up the Bugbear Zombie? It's supposedly CR 2. It has 42 hp, DR 5/slashing, AC 16, speed 30', +6 to attack and 1d8+3 damage. It's supposed to be the boss in a 1st-level adventure WotC published and it TPKed a group of new players I was teaching (it killed a couple of the PCs in one shot...). On the other hand, a 1st-level party of four designed by me rather than by new players would probably slaughter it... So who here thinks it's actually CR 2?

Pssh, that thing?

I took that out. In a party of two. Consisting of a rogue and a Warlock.

Granted, I think we were 2nd level at the time, but we shredded it (probably shouldn't use my troll-blooded warlock as a "balanced" example, though...)

[Darthteej]

Granted, I think we were 2nd level at the time, but we shredded it (probably shouldn't use my troll-blooded warlock as a "balanced" example, though...)

Ya think? Really? Noooooo, i think that's perfectly balanced. Being able to regenerate all damage thrown at them is fine for 2nd level characters.

[noparlpf]

Pssh, that thing?

I took that out. In a party of two. Consisting of a rogue and a Warlock.

Granted, I think we were 2nd level at the time, but we shredded it (probably shouldn't use my troll-blooded warlock as a "balanced" example, though...)

Like I said, if I designed a 1st-level party of four they could have eaten it for breakfast. I could probably take it out with a party of two.
But the thing was used in an adventure for newbie players, and because another guy was helping the group build their characters while I set up, I wasn't involved in the party balancing process. He let them build two ranged Rogues, a Druid with a sling and no healing spells, and a Cleric with a mace, one healing spell, and spontaneous inflicting, and who forgot he could try to rebuke undead.

[Archwizard]

The demons entry starts on 56, but these critters extend to 57.

I was talking to noparlpf, which he figured out. I was trying to avoid this thread getting derailed by a discussion of a monster that is not from the MMII, which is the point of this thread.

[Fruchtkracher]

So... that beautiful project is dead once more? Or do you simply have those lengthy breaks on purpose?
Can't wait till you continue

[Darthteej]

I know... I know, I'm awful. I'll have them up tommorow, I promise! Another 3 monsters.

[No brains]

Aboot time! I missed you!

[Yora]

I was just taking a look at the MM2 again.

Why does the Bronze Serpent heal 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage it would take, but also have Electricity Resistance 10?
I guess it would make some sense if it would be intended that it heals only 1 point of damage for every 3 points above 10, but I think they just messed up editing and it is supposed to be immune.

[Darthteej]

Jovoc
See the thing with the big claws? Wait, no. See the thing with the pointed ears? No, wait. Okay, okay, the Jovoc is the thing without the wings. They're nasty little buggers who are hinted to be the spirits of gnomes who ended up in the abyss. I find these things strangely adorable the more I look at them, look at it, it's even got a little gut! Mabye it just needs a big hug

Problem is that hug will kill you.

The Jovoc is small size, has no offesnive spells, and very low strength. It's main form of offense is the Aura of Retribution. Basically what this means is that any damage they take(yes, any, so it doesen't have to be from you) will deal an equivalent amount to any nondemon within 30 ft, unless they make a Fort save for half. The tactics section specifically mentions that their method of fighting is to stand around in the background hitting each other. Unbelievably, the editors seemed to have caught a mistake and made sure to mention that Javoc's attacks deal "full damage" to each other, which presumably bypasses their DR. So yeah, fun little monster, supposedly CR 5, and annoying as hell in any case. Let's see what VorpalTribble has to say about it?

Challenge Rating: MMII weirdness once again! All of those special qualities bumped it up to Challenge Rating 6. I can see why it does so, because unless you have a silver weapon it's absorbing 10 points of damage each round, and dealing at least some of it back. This is one example of an MMII creature that really fits it's intended design: it's meant to be used as a sucker punch, or to be smaller minions during a boss fight who can still contribute.

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38 HP(4 HD) divided by 4.5: +8
AC 16: +1
Special Attacks: None(+0)
Special Qualities: Aura of Retribution, DR 5/Silver, Fast Healing 5, Resistance to Acid, Cold, and Fire 10, Immunity to Electricity and Poison, SR 9+level: +10,
Bonus Feats: None(+0)
END RESULT: 6

Palrethee
See that big thing with the skeleton wings? Apparently, a Palrethee is what happens when a demon wants to be a Balor, and doesn't. They're punished by burning in eternal fire(despite being immune to fire ), and by being the lapdogs to REAL Balor. Mechanically they fulfill this role by having all the same tactics and equipment as low level Balor. Balor is fun to say. Balor Balor Balor.

They are equipped with a flaming longsword, deal fire damage when attacked, and set creatures on fire with their slam attack. I'm beginning to sense a pattern. Their only other option is to use a fear SLA. The book does mention that they tend to be more manipulators than combatants, but they lack any sort of shapeshifting. This means they're either BBEGs, or your players think a giant flaming bat thing with red eyes is perfectly trustworthy. Figure it out on your own.

Challenge Rating: It comes up as very slightly above a 9, which is okay. Fact is this thing was created just to be a low level version of the Balor, and both it's fluff and crunch end up hinging too much on that.

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HP:60 divided by 5(8 HD): +12
Armor Class 23: +2
Special Attacks: Demonic Burn, Spell Like Abilities: +2
Special Qualities: DR 10/Magic, Fiery Shield, Fire Subtype, Tann'ari Traits, SR 10+Level: +12
Bonus Feats: None +0
END RESULT: 9.33, or about 9


Special Attacks:

[No brains]

Jovars seem pretty cool. Unusual without being total B.S.

[Yora]

Balor is fun to say. Balor Balor Balor.

I have recently been informed that if you are really afraid of a monster, you only have to say its name often enough and it will become just funny and adorable.

[deuxhero]

Hmm...

[Zaq]

I see what you did there.

[No brains]

I have recently been informed that if you are really afraid of a monster, you only have to say its name often enough and it will become just funny and adorable.

Proviso: You don't do this at midnight in front of a mirror.

[Gadora]

I have recently been informed that if you are really afraid of a monster, you only have to say its name often enough and it will become just funny and adorable.

Hm, thinking of fantasy and folklore, doesn't speaking something's name often risk drawing it's attention?

[No brains]

I have recently been informed that if you are really afraid of a monster, you only have to say its name often enough and it will become just funny and adorable.

THEY STOLE YOUR IDEA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG3cq...ure=plpp_video @ 9:50

Unless you see NC's videos on his site before they get uploaded to YouTube...

[Darthteej]

Sooo, next update coming will include three, count em, three monsters. However, I do have a problem with this thread's organization. See, I can't edit the opening post to include these new monsters I'm putting up. Any ideas?

[NineThePuma]

When LotRfan comes back, if he doesn't throw down a Bulk Update of Reruns, can probably edit them in. In the mean time, maybe make a post somewhere to add a "second index" to?

[Darthteej]

When? His return is a pretty big if in my book. Did he ever give a reason as to why he's left teh interwebz?