Dragging a rounded character out of them, kicking and screaming.

[Vladislav]

Similarly if I'm playing chess and someone flips the board, I'm not going to allow them to put the pieces back "more or less" where they were before.

You know, I'm actually a competitive chess player with an international rating ... and if I were playing a friendly game, not in a tournament, just a game with a friend, I honestly wouldn't mind putting back the pieces "more or less" where they were. It's better than just aborting the game.

I covered that in the first paragraph of the OP.

Indeed you did. Except you stated the opposite.

Last week my hard drive exploded, making me lose all my data since the last time I bothered backing it up (which was three months ago). As a direct result I've been forced to restart the 3.5 campaign I'd been running, since all my data was on the computer

We have learned by now that restarting the campaign is NOT a direct result of the computer crash. It's a direct result of DM/player dissatisfaction. The computer is just a red herring.

[Drakevarg]

Indeed you did. Except you stated the opposite.

Last week my hard drive exploded, making me lose all my data since the last time I bothered backing it up (which was three months ago). As a direct result I've been forced to restart the 3.5 campaign I'd been running, since all my data was on the computer. Just as well, since I was considering killing the party off anyway and making them roll more motivated characters.

Did I? I note you left out the sentence that didn't make me look like a lying sack of ****.

Besides, I was only considering killing off the campaign before the hard drive died. It did convince me to actually go through with it. Had nothing happened I probably would have floundered about for a few more sessions until I figured out something to do.

[Sillycomic]

Why does your example have me flipping the board?

If anything, you are the one flipping the board. Oh, well, no... wait. You are putting the board behind a screen so I can't see all of the pieces and then telling me where they are, and then you bump the board and it flips over accidentally.

So now I want to put things back the way they were, more or less. But since I had such limited information to begin with, I'm not really able to do that.

There's a more realistic example.

[Mystic Muse]

Guys, this looks like it's going in a bad direction. Can we just drop it?

[Jarian]

This is going nowhere good guys.

Edit: Yes, it's going somewhere so bad that two people called it at the same time.

[Vladislav]

Self-inflicted epithets aside, you were very specific - the computer crash was direct reason for ending the campaign. It only took us 150+ posts to figure out this is not the case. Imagine what we can do in 150 more!

[vikingofdoom]

{{scrubbed}}

[Drakevarg]

Why does your example have me flipping the board?

If anything, you are the one flipping the board. Oh, well, no... wait. You are putting the board behind a screen so I can't see all of the pieces and then telling me where they are, and then you bump the board and it flips over accidentally.

Who flipped over the board doesn't matter. The important fact is that it did flip and I don't trust anyone, not even myself, enough to let anyone attempt to put the pieces back more or less where they were.

Self-inflicted epithets aside, you were very specific - the computer crash was direct reason for ending the campaign.

It was the direct reason. The desire to kill the campaign before that was only vague contemplation until the crash forced my hand. I didn't mind the change, but it doesn't mean I was actively seeking it out... yet.

{{scrubbed}}

Of the two? Despot. And to be more accurate, I feel that "killing off the party because they rolled characters that are not willing to go on adventures except at gunpoint" is okay.

[Sillycomic]

See, that makes more sense.

I do agree, you do not trust anyone, including yourself.

[Jarian]

Psycho, I would really very strongly advise that you stop trying to convince people of your reasoning for restarting the game. Even if it's true, it looks... very flimsy from this side of the computer screen. You and only you know what the true motivation was - whether it was what you've stated or not doesn't matter - and every post you make trying to convince people of something different digs the hole just a little deeper.

*shrug*

[Drakevarg]

Psycho, I would really very strongly advise that you stop trying to convince people of your reasoning for restarting the game. Even if it's true, it looks... very flimsy from this side of the computer screen. You and only you know what the true motivation was - whether it was what you've stated or not doesn't matter - and every post you make trying to convince people of something different digs the hole just a little deeper.

*shrug*

Oddly enough, people having a low opinion of me is a good thing in a twisted sort of way. It makes them quicker to offer criticism, and then I can dig through the deluge for lessons I actually care to learn.

Also, arguing is fun.

[Sillycomic]

I really don't have a low opinion of you. I just think your gaming style is very different from my own.

So, when you ask us something like, "How do I get more well rounded characters from my players," and throughout posting on the topic you tell us things like, "The players don't see their own character sheets," and "Sometimes I kill players just for the fun of it," It makes us think there's some bigger problem with the game.

Personally I just think you need a big disclaimer on all of your help threads so we can know all this information ahead of time... because your play style is vastly different than anyone I've played with or read about. In order for us to come up with helpful posts, sometimes all of this information is necessary, otherwise people think you are lying to them or misleading information when they do finally realize what is going on in the game.

[Drakevarg]

Personally I just think you need a big disclaimer on all of your help threads so we can know all this information ahead of time... because your play style is vastly different than anyone I've played with or read about. In order for us to come up with helpful posts, sometimes all of this information is necessary, otherwise people think you are lying to them or misleading information when they do finally realize what is going on in the game.

Hm... maybe I should collect all the threads I've made here for DMing advice into one "Psycho's name is more apt than you think" catalog for people to read through.

[Doc Roc]

Only the people on the other side of the DM screen aren't opponents.

Said simply, and well. My condolences for the wasted expenditure of eloquence.

[Sillycomic]

Personally I would like that. I only remember a few off hand, the bacon wagon one is the only one that comes to mind.

It would make for an interesting afternoon to read them all!

[Tyndmyr]

Without looking at your sheet, can you tell me the attributes, skills, feats and equipment of a character of yours right now? Maybe you can, but I certainly couldn't.

I could not only recreate both characters I am currently playing from scratch, I could likely recreate most of my parties characters with pretty fair accuracy. At a minimum, the stats wouldn't be more than 2-3 off, the levels would all be right, and I'd have the feats right. This is probably mostly due to the fact that in every game Ive ever played, the players had their own character sheets, and routinely enjoyed discussing their characters.

When I DM, which is often, my players are responsible for their own sheets, though I note down critical information off all of them. If they lost their sheet, I could recreate it. I also do back up the drives of all computers routinely. This isn't just a D&D thing, it's something you should do for any computer that has stuff you value on it.

Last week my hard drive exploded, making me lose all my data since the last time I bothered backing it up (which was three months ago). As a direct result I've been forced to restart the 3.5 campaign I'd been running, since all my data was on the computer. Just as well, since I was considering killing the party off anyway and making them roll more motivated characters.

Did I? I note you left out the sentence that didn't make me look like a lying sack of ****.

Er, that sentence doesn't make you look better at all.

I wouldn't recommend that as a reason for killing off the party.

Oddly enough, people having a low opinion of me is a good thing in a twisted sort of way. It makes them quicker to offer criticism, and then I can dig through the deluge for lessons I actually care to learn.

Also, arguing is fun.

Arguing can be fun indeed. That said, I don't think that people having a low opinion of you is something you should be regarding as good. I will happily give constructive criticism for people I like and/or respect. If anything, a sufficiently low opinion of you will result in people dismissing you. This is not something to be aspired to.

[The Glyphstone]

Personally I would like that. I only remember a few off hand, the bacon wagon one is the only one that comes to mind.

It would make for an interesting afternoon to read them all!

The bacon wagon was his best thread.

[Tyndmyr]

The bacon wagon was his best thread.

Heck, I want a bacon wagon in real life.

Yknow, that should be a thing. They have hot dog stands, why are there no bacon wagons? I would keep them in business all by myself.

[Sillycomic]

I found it!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ht=Bacon+Wagon

Link!

Mmmmm... bacon....

[Drakevarg]

Sewer Drain Trap
Mooks
Zombie Apocalypse
Too Much Information?
Appropriate Guard Setups
Which Skill To Use?
Mook Equipment
Does this cripple or just nerf a Wizard?
Planning for Plot Variations without Railroading
Giving Them A Reason
Excessively Dangerous?
How much material is nessicary?
Generic Mook List, What Am I Missing?
Balance Check on House Rule
DMs - How do you do it?
Opposing Army
Learning from a TPK...
CharGen Questionnaire
Scared is preferable to dead.
Does not like WBL...
Need to decide on a new class for an NPC.
Am I about to murder my PCs again?
Designing an Army
Caster Level for Craft Warforged?
Help me make my players suck less.
CR Adjustment for House Rule?
New Personal Record for Fastest PC Death
There's a fine line between "difficult" and "lethal."
Designing a Megadungeon
Surviving Without Magic
When you can afford 1600 strips of bacon...
Need a monster.
Creating a false Tyler Durden
Stuck on plot hooks.
Dragging a rounded character out of them, kicking and screaming.
Well, I don't think that could've turned out much better.

I think that covers most of it.

[dsmiles]

I think that covers most of it.

That may take a few hours to read. I should get started.

[Leon]

That may take a few hours to read. I should get started.

I'm going to hazard a guess - they all end up roughly the same.

[Mystic Muse]

I'm going to hazard a guess - they all end up roughly the same.

From the ones I've seen? Pretty much.

[averagejoe]

The Mod They Call Me: This has gotten way off topic, and it seems like the OP requires no further on-topic solutions. Thread locked.