LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

[strawberryman]

Actually, I believe that the "don't say gay" bill is tooled towards not allowing (public?) teachers to speak about homosexuality. Then again I may be wrong.

[Tono]

IIRC, and this info is ~months old so, The bill prohibited TN public schools from mentioning or talking about Homosexuality. This includes advisors and teachers mostly, and was done 'to stop needless classroom interruptions', or something like that. Honestly when I heard about it I looked at it, got disgusted and was glad I have not been in HS for a bit, then stopped looking at it thinking that there was no way something like this would be passed. Maybe I was wrong.

[Astrella]

Hmmm, the cross-over from girl to woman isn't that clear. Though I'll use girl in English for older people then I would use the Dutch equivalent for.

I don't like being called mister, cause I don't think I'm mature enough for that. Though, I don't like being called with male pronouns in general, so that probably contributes.

[Mina Kobold]

I use boy and girl for male and female. (shrug)

Me too *High fours*

I rarely every use woman or man seriously. I will use man if I am pretending to be a hippie but they have an air of formality about them that completely classes with my utter lack of a serious brainwave.

They do realize that censoring words never helps, right? I mean look at swearwords. They're widely recognized as not appropriate in most (if not all) circumstance, but people use them all the time anyways. And when people can't use them they make up alternatives that mean/are used the same, like people using "fudge" as a substitute for a certain four letter word.

Plus I think this kind of bill goes against freedom of speech.

My usage of alternatives, usually Häagen Dasz for it's ridiculousness, stem from a strong dislike of the common words and the fact that the reason that they are offensive is hilariously nonsensical.

Essentially I find it as offensive as telling somebody to eat chips, so to speak. So why not make my own?

This bill is against human rights, though. I wish I could vote against it, but Delicious Pastry Land is not part of the US, unfortunately, so i can't.

[Lissou]

I think "boy" and "girl" are definitely less formal, but then it depends on the person and situation whether it makes boy/girl rude and (wo)man polite, or boy/girl affectionate and (wo)man distant. For instant you say boy/girlfriend, not (wo)manfriend. And for instance "my girl" sounds sweet and affectionate to me, when "my woman" sounds chauvinistic. Honestly, it's probably just about connotations.

[Coidzor]

My usage of alternatives, usually Häagen Dasz for it's ridiculousness, stem from a strong dislike of the common words and the fact that the reason that they are offensive is hilariously nonsensical.

Essentially I find it as offensive as telling somebody to eat chips, so to speak. So why not make my own?

Well, because it either belies deliberate antagonism to choose words that people won't understand intentionally or you're not going to be understood when you speak. That's one facet of the reasons to not do it.

[Lix Lorn]

I think "boy" and "girl" are definitely less formal, but then it depends on the person and situation whether it makes boy/girl rude and (wo)man polite, or boy/girl affectionate and (wo)man distant. For instant you say boy/girlfriend, not (wo)manfriend. And for instance "my girl" sounds sweet and affectionate to me, when "my woman" sounds chauvinistic. Honestly, it's probably just about connotations.

I think woman implies formality myself-
...huh. You said that. I only read the second half of your post.

(high fours Keveak)

[Mina Kobold]

Well, because it either belies deliberate antagonism to choose words that people won't understand intentionally or you're not going to be understood when you speak. That's one facet of the reasons to not do it.

Correct me if I should be mistaken, but are you saying that by shouting nonsense I am deliberately attempting to insult or antagonise someone?

That astounds me, the jesting nature of how many of my classmates uses swears these days gave me the impression that made-up ones would just be seen as more jiggery-pokery. ^_^'

[rayne_dragon]

Correct me if I should be mistaken, but are you saying that by shouting nonsense I am deliberately attempting to insult or antagonise someone?

That astounds me, the jesting nature of how many of my classmates uses swears these days gave me the impression that made-up ones would just be seen as more jiggery-pokery. ^_^'

Made-up words are awesome, don't let anyone tell you different.

Actually, another girl at work gives me strange looks when I swear using sugary words like "fudge" and "marshmellows" - and in return I give her a hard time for using real swearwords at work.

[Coidzor]

Correct me if I should be mistaken, but are you saying that by shouting nonsense I am deliberately attempting to insult or antagonise someone?

I didn't see the full context of what you were playing off of, no. It had seemed you found the usual terms that were used in discussing something unpleasant so you simply made up your own word without explanation, which would definitely inhibit the capacity for meaningful discourse.

Just look at how often we get into fights over slight variations in... weight of certain pars of an agreed upon definition and then add in a word that's just out of the blue and not necessarily even explained...

Or as people so often do, rather than explain their meaning decide to act imperious and condescending as if their failure to communicate their idea is the fault of the person they're messing with.

[Dire Moose]

All these stories of people being in love with transgirls make me feel all fuzzy inside. Gives me hope you know.

Awwwwww, I gave someone the warm fuzzies inside? Thank you.

[KenderWizard]

My exams are over, and I'm back to trawling for feminist/LGBT/gender articles! I found this one, which talks about how difficult it is to engage with mainstream fashion outside the gender binary. I'm glad I came across it, because I was just thinking about it the other day. I wanted to buy a plain hoodie for my little brother, and went to a big Irish chain store called Dunnes. They had men's hoodies on the men's floor and women's on the women's, but the hoodies seemed functionally identical, aside from colour. Men got black, grey, navy and a dull blue, women got white, turquoise, purple, pink and yellow. Because grey is totally unable to be worn by a woman, and men are prohibited from white, clearly. Wandering around the men's section, I saw just about as many things I'd be interested in buying and wearing as when I looked around the women's section, and in fact bought a super-comfy pair of plain grey tracksuit bottoms that just didn't exist in a women's version for myself.

How do those of you crossing the gender divide or outside the gender binary source your clothes? How do you find androygenous clothes? Do any cis people wear the opposite gender's clothes, and is it just tshirts and other things that are generally accepted as unisex now or do you regularly shop somewhere you "shouldn't"? I'm guessing more ciswomen than cismen do, because men's clothes are generally seen as more unisex. Stealing the boyfriend's shirt is a well known dressing technique for when you've run out of clothes, I'm not sure I've ever seen any guy stealing his girlfriend's clothes when he hasn't got any clean shirts. Any stories?

[Choray]

So. Here goes nothing!

Aww, I'm proud of you, you know! A little embarrassed, too, but that's not your fault. You did perfectly well.

For everyone else, hi, I'm the subject of that post. I figured I might as well weigh in a bit.

All these stories of people being in love with transgirls make me feel all fuzzy inside. Gives me hope you know.

It's hard to imagine sometimes, but there really are people out there who will give you a chance. I wasn't at all expecting it myself, but here this friend of mine just sort of randomly professes his love for me and here we are!

...Come to think of it, are there really any individuals who can start transitioning soon enough that Transgirl would be an apt descriptor?

Depends on how you make the distinction as many have already pointed out, but I started trying to make my way through the system at 17, emphasis on trying as their current reason for not helping me is that they don't find my part-time job satisfactory. Fortunately there are ways around that and I've been on hormones for almost two years, starting around my 19th birthday.

Also echoing the sentiment that outside of formal occasions, 'woman' doesn't feel appropriate to me, it makes me sound old!

Actually, I believe that the "don't say gay" bill is tooled towards not allowing (public?) teachers to speak about homosexuality. Then again I may be wrong.

I'm assuming it'll work on the same principle as abstinence-only education, meaning that no school kids will turn out gay, just like no teenagers ever have sex.

[Lissou]

Do any cis people wear the opposite gender's clothes, and is it just tshirts and other things that are generally accepted as unisex now or do you regularly shop somewhere you "shouldn't"?

For pants, I find female pants have weird cuts that are too low for me, or are weirdly shaped, mostly jeans. And non-jeans tend to lack pockets. So I get pants from the male section.
The funny thing is I've had compliments about how they show off my hips and make me look sexy and things like that. The way I see it, clothes are just the wrapping. They might but them in different sections but you shouldn't be afraid to shop around if it happens to work with your body better.
I also buy male T-shirts but that's more unisex.
And I've bought male shoes a lot in the past, but then in North America it was harder because for some reason male sizes and female sizes are different. In France it's much easier, they're the same and usually what puts sneakers in the male or female section is only the colours. Turns out I like "guy" colours better.

[strawberryman]

Aww, I'm proud of you, you know! A little embarrassed, too, but that's not your fault. You did perfectly well.

For everyone else, hi, I'm the subject of that post. I figured I might as well weigh in a bit.

[rayne_dragon]

How do those of you crossing the gender divide or outside the gender binary source your clothes? How do you find androygenous clothes? Do any cis people wear the opposite gender's clothes, and is it just tshirts and other things that are generally accepted as unisex now or do you regularly shop somewhere you "shouldn't"? I'm guessing more ciswomen than cismen do, because men's clothes are generally seen as more unisex. Stealing the boyfriend's shirt is a well known dressing technique for when you've run out of clothes, I'm not sure I've ever seen any guy stealing his girlfriend's clothes when he hasn't got any clean shirts. Any stories?

I've totally seen guys steal their girlfriend' clothes at times - they usually get made fun of for it when it becomes known.

I tend to just buy clothes that I like regardless of what 'gender' they're typed as. Since I'm rather picky about my style it means regardless of which gender's section I'm looking in I tend to have to sort through things equally extensively. Thrift stores tend to give me the best selection, though. I do find that I feel more uncomfortable when shopping in the 'wrong' section when presenting as male than as female. There's less stigma about a woman buying men's clothes than for a man buying women's clothes, although it tends not to be that significant (money is money, after all). It gets worse when trying to buy things like lipstick, though, I got the last stick of lipstick I bought for free because the cashier just refused to believe that someone 'obviously' male would be buying lipstick and refused to scan it despite my efforts to get them to do so.

[Savannah]

It gets worse when trying to buy things like lipstick, though, I got the last stick of lipstick I bought for free because the cashier just refused to believe that someone 'obviously' male would be buying lipstick and refused to scan it despite my efforts to get them to do so.

What? They've never seen guys wearing lipstick? They've never heard of a guy buying lipstick for his girlfriend/sister/mother/other female acquaintance? That...just...it...what?!

[Mystic Muse]

What? They've never seen guys wearing lipstick? They've never heard of a guy buying lipstick for his girlfriend/sister/mother/other female acquaintance? That...just...it...what?!

Look on the bright side. It was free.

[Worira]

Clearly, you should buy all possible products from this cashier. Because if their default reaction to a purchase defying their narrow bounds of socially acceptable behaviour is to let you have it for free, I can see the potential for some nice savings.

[rayne_dragon]

What? They've never seen guys wearing lipstick? They've never heard of a guy buying lipstick for his girlfriend/sister/mother/other female acquaintance? That...just...it...what?!

Actually, I don't think I've ever heard of a guy buying lipstick for a female acquaintance, myself. Even so, this store's in one of the more queer-friendly areas of the city so the attitude seems extra strange.

Look on the bright side. It was free.

That was my thought. I had wondered if they had already scanned it when I wasn't paying attention, but I checked the bill afterwords.

Clearly, you should buy all possible products from this cashier. Because if their default reaction to a purchase defying their narrow bounds of socially acceptable behaviour is to let you have it for free, I can see the potential for some nice savings.

Unfortunately, this place is a dollar store, so there isn't that much potential for savings. Plus, I try to be a bit more scrupulous than to rip off stores that have never done anything to me. I do refuse to leave behind an item I tried to purchase, though.

[celtois]

For those who don't know today may 17th is international day against Homophobia

http://www.homophobiaday.org/default.aspx?scheme=3176

[Serpentine]

Do any cis people wear the opposite gender's clothes, and is it just tshirts and other things that are generally accepted as unisex now or do you regularly shop somewhere you "shouldn't"?

I have a pair of men's shoes, a male jumper, various men's/unisex t-shirts, and probably some other things. I usually find men's stuff to be the wrong shape, but if I see something that suits me it being "meant for men" won't put me off buying it.

I got the last stick of lipstick I bought for free because the cashier just refused to believe that someone 'obviously' male would be buying lipstick and refused to scan it despite my efforts to get them to do so.

Ha! Score!

[blackfox]

How do those of you crossing the gender divide or outside the gender binary source your clothes?

Couple places. Some things are stolen from The Boy, some things are stolen from my dorm's free bin (the place where you leave anything you don't want that isn't broken so someone else can use it), some things are bought from my hippie college town's buy/sell/trade cheap clothes place. Never run into problems, I guess because I'm female-bodied. Not as much stigma over female-bodied people acting masculine as there is with male-bodied people acting feminine. Worst I've gotten is from a friend jokingly telling me 'You look like a lesbian with that outfit,' when all the clothes I was wearing were designed for women anyways.

[Asta Kask]

For those who don't know today may 17th is international day against Homophobia

http://www.homophobiaday.org/default.aspx?scheme=3176

Rainbow people in Norway should be doubly pleased then.

Rainbow people. I like that. Can we call the next thread the Rainbow Thread, rather than trying to fit all possible letters of the alphabet into the title?

[KenderWizard]

What? They've never seen guys wearing lipstick? They've never heard of a guy buying lipstick for his girlfriend/sister/mother/other female acquaintance? That...just...it...what?!

Yeah, I've definitely known of men buying lipstick as a present.

Actually, Rayne, how did the cashier behave? Did they just ignore it, or did you say something like "This is mine too" and they said something like "No it isn't"?

Rainbow people in Norway should be doubly pleased then.

Rainbow people. I like that. Can we call the next thread the Rainbow Thread, rather than trying to fit all possible letters of the alphabet into the title?

I've always thought rainbows would make more sense for a general diversity and anti-discrimination symbol, encompassing LGBT and gender, races and skin colours, ages, abilities, class backgrounds, etc. To be all the minorities and open-minded people standing together and (hopefully!) outnumbering the prejudiced pro-heteronormative racist people. But since it does mean LGBT, I think Rainbow Thread would be a really cute name!

[Serpentine]

I still reckon "Queer Thread"...

edit: Anyone else read Trying Human? I posted a snippet of it earlier. There's a sweet little gay subplot going on at the moment, which I'm enjoying immensely :3

[Asta Kask]

Should the thread have an official animal?

I suggest the clown fish:

Not only is it beautiful, it has the ability to change sex. The largest fish is female, she mates with the largest male. When she dies, the largest male changes sex to female, and one of the non-reproducing males becomes new breeding male.

[golentan]

That's fairly common among fish. Just off the top of my head, Sheepheads do the same with the genders reversed for example.

[KenderWizard]

Queer Thread, while less adorable, is more appropriate, in my view. I support Queer Thread!

Clown fish are more adorable than other fish. I'd be more inclined to go with penguins, though.

[Serpentine]

Bonobos?
Alternatively: a small brown English bird (I'm sorry, I forget its name) which was used as the natural epitome of pure, chaste, proper, Godly monogamous niceness. Then when scientists actually studied them, they found all sorts of lewdness going on. I don't want to list it because I'll probably include some things that weren't actually found, but basically they're a while bunch.