LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

[Serpentine]

{scrubbed}

[golentan]

Okay then, I'm mentioning it now. Language is stupid. It makes me feel stupider just to use it or to translate thoughts into it. It is too formal, too hard to formulate unambiguous statements, too changeable, too one dimensional, too standardized (in specific), too nonstandardized (in general), and just generally other stuff like that.

[rayne_dragon]

If not via language, how do you propose to communicate with those of us who lack psychic gifts such as telepathy and (hyper)empathy?

I'm not disagreeing that lingustics can often be stupid, I'm just curious if you have an idea for a better way. Must resist temptation to make juvenile jokes about language-related stuff.

[Coidzor]

Context, as they say, is everything.

I don't know if anyone else follows the youtube trans-community (I know CandiFLA was mentioned a while back), but I recently discovered Grishno, and came across this video which made me laugh.

...There are youtube communities?

[Mystic Muse]

Okay then, I'm mentioning it now. Language is stupid. It makes me feel stupider just to use it or to translate thoughts into it. It is too formal, too hard to formulate unambiguous statements, too changeable, too one dimensional, too standardized (in specific), too nonstandardized (in general), and just generally other stuff like that.

I completely agree. Especially with too hard to formulate unambiguous statements, and too changeable. It makes homebrewing stuff a pain, and I keep having to ask people on IM programs to rephrase things. Largely because there are multiple equally valid ways to interpret something and I hate interpreting things the wrong way.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: I'm going to lock this temporarily as it seems to have strayed almost entirely into an Inappropriate Topic under the Forum Rules. I apologize for the inconvenience. A moderator will review and reopen as soon as possible.

[SMEE]

The Rainbow Mod: The thread review is done, and thus, thread reopened.

[Astrella]

Well I read it, and didn't feel qualified to comment. But I can give you a *hug*.

Sirroelivan: *hugs* It's impossible to tell how any particular person is going to react when you come out to them, so I think fear and doubt is unavoidable and natural. Don't feel bad about it. You're moving in the right direction by going to a counselor, even if you aren't ready to talk to other people about your feelings yet.

Sirrol: Umm... I don't have any good advice to give, but *hug*

*hug*

I'm starting to get a bit stressed out due to the end of the semester that's drawing near. I've missed a lot of classes these last two months and am quite behind on my studying. I'll also be home for the pre-exam break for studying and during the exam period itself, which might make things slightly uneasy. I'm just really looking forward to the holidays right now and putting this semester behind me.

I've asked people who know my real name and know about my gender issues online to actually stop using it and use Sirro instead, since I feel uncomfortable hearing / reading my real name lately.

[golentan]

Yay! We're back.

My ex-boyfriend may be hitting on me again following us clearing the air about our breakup a couple years ago and apologies on both sides. Not sure how to respond.

I feel weird because it's a situation where I really wouldn't mind throwing down with him but I don't even remotely want to try actually going out with him again, which is usually the polar opposite of my feelings about people. And I'm not sure if doing so would violate my principles (I have a weird system of ethics when it comes to romance and need to think about it if it is an option which I'm not sure it is).

It's probably moot anyway.

Sirro: That's rough. At least you don't have too much longer to go until you're done, right? And do you mean you've got IRL friends calling you Sirro?

[Astrella]

Sirro: That's rough. At least you don't have too much longer to go until you're done, right? And do you mean you've got IRL friends calling you Sirro?

I haven't told anyone IRL about this, except the counselor I am going to. I know it sounds kinda weird, but I use real first names when talking to my (close) online friends. I basically just asked them to use Sirro instead of my real name when addressing me with my "real" name and not my online nickname, if that makes any sense.

Edit: Wish I had advice for you, but I'm so hopelessly inexperienced regarding romantic stuff that I don't really have any to offer besides thinking it through properly.

[celtois]

Ugh, I just met someone last night who is all. Oh yeah, pro-gay rights, despite being straight. But holds the attitude that bi-sexual's don't exist, and doesn't understand how lesbians could give up the ****.



He kept going on about how all Lesbians want to be men, thus their use of dildos, and them proceeded to tell me I was just bi-curious, and that sooner or later I'd settle on being gay or straight, and that if I didn't I'd just end up unhappy with my partner if I choose them from the 'wrong' sex.

Grr.

[golentan]

Ugh, I just met someone last night who is all. Oh yeah, pro-gay rights, despite being straight. But holds the attitude that bi-sexual's don't exist, and doesn't understand how lesbians could give up the ****.



He kept going on about how all Lesbians want to be men, thus their use of dildos, and them proceeded to tell me I was just bi-curious, and that sooner or later I'd settle on being gay or straight, and that if I didn't I'd just end up unhappy with my partner if I choose them from the 'wrong' sex.

Grr.

I usually just remind myself that because someone's right about one thing does not make them right about anything else. A broken clock and all that. Still, that's a really jerk level of idiocy it sounds like. Sorry.

[Coidzor]

I feel weird because it's a situation where I really wouldn't mind throwing down with him but I don't even remotely want to try actually going out with him again, which is usually the polar opposite of my feelings about people. And I'm not sure if doing so would violate my principles (I have a weird system of ethics when it comes to romance and need to think about it if it is an option which I'm not sure it is).?

Why do you still want to get into a fistfight with him if you went to all of the trouble of clearing the air?

Is he just that offensively bad at flirting?

Ugh, I just met someone last night who is all. Oh yeah, pro-gay rights, despite being straight. But holds the attitude that bi-sexual's don't exist, and doesn't understand how lesbians could give up the ****.



Grr.

Well, there's always identifying and challenging the basis of these assumptions with a group of associates if you have to continue interacting with such an individual.

This reminds me of a quote I saw once about how we view those who are close to our position but off on some point or another somehow as more onerous than those who just don't even know about our position on things.

Humans, they can be quite strangely nuanced. :/

[golentan]

That really wasn't what I meant by "throw down with." But kudos on getting the first letter right.

Edit: 2nd under Verb and Verb: Ambitransitive

[Coidzor]

That really wasn't what I meant by "throw down with." But kudos on getting the first letter right.

Edit: 2nd under Verb and Verb: Ambitransitive

Right. No. I reject your making that into a double entendre for double entendre's sake and no other reason.

[golentan]

Tough. You are an odd duck, coid.

[Coidzor]

Tough. You are an odd duck, coid.

I'm tired and don't like what you just did. Nothing odd about it.

edit: Well, the tiredness might be impacting my expressiveness, I'll admit.

[Nix Nihila]

I'm fairly sure golentan didn't fabricate that meaning of "throw down", but I may be wrong. Although you may have known that already.

Thank you. *hug*

It just irks me sometimes often how there's a huge discrepancy now between who I am / how I can behave between online and RL now. (Because I'm "out" to several of my best online friends.)

Ahh, didn't see this before. Yeah, I know the feeling, and isn't a nice one.

@Coidzor Yes, there are youtube communities (although in a much vaguer sense than say, this forum is). Although most of the ones I'm familiar with are fairly small.

[golentan]

But it wasn't even a double entendre. It was pretty solidly single entendre, simply a euphemism. If you were going to object, you could have done that directly rather than obfuscating by deliberately and blatantly misinterpreting it as a euphemism for another action. When you asked for clarification, my options were take you at face value and elaborate or take it as a challenge to a fun language-based confrontation. Hence doing both. And then you just drop out to go straight to the original "I object" button, leaving me feeling vaguely unfulfilled. Hence "odd duck."

[rayne_dragon]

Ugh, I just met someone last night who is all. Oh yeah, pro-gay rights, despite being straight. But holds the attitude that bi-sexual's don't exist, and doesn't understand how lesbians could give up the ****.



He kept going on about how all Lesbians want to be men, thus their use of dildos, and them proceeded to tell me I was just bi-curious, and that sooner or later I'd settle on being gay or straight, and that if I didn't I'd just end up unhappy with my partner if I choose them from the 'wrong' sex.

Grr.

*hugs*

Ignorance and close-mindedness are terrible and frightening things. If this person's pro-gay attitude like this, I'd hate to know what he thinks on other, less clear issues.

[Mono Vertigo]

Hi! Not-so-short introduction before all:

Spoiler

Show

for most of my life, I considered myself bisexual, all the while being actually terminally asexual. Two boys had fallen in love with me and confessed it. The first one did when I was 12-13; he was 12-13 too. He was a good friend, but an increasingly creepy boy with a psychological profile such as I considered a tragedy would eventually happen (but again, I was 13 with almost no friend beside him, and he'd always acted like a perfect gentleman in front of my parents, fooling everyone). It was unrequited, but he told me he would just wait until I changed my mind. Last time I ever saw him, it was a few months later, while accompanying him back home through a shortcut, walking though a building site. There were a few things lying around, and among them, iron bars. He took, pretended with an eerie conviction he thought I was a demonic being and was going to bash my skull in, and when he saw me fall backward in terror, laughed madly. Slapped him, ran back home alone as fast as I could, and learnt next September he was in an institute I suspect was of the psychiatric kind. I am glad to tell you that, to my knowledge, he hasn't killed anything else than small animals.
(For the longest time, I blamed that event for my huge lack of attraction towards anyone. Nowadays, I just think it didn't help.)

The second time, it was a very good friend on the Internet who confessed his love for me; I was 17. I freaked out because I had no idea how to react, explained the best I could I just considered him a friend, but that my feelings could change though I couldn't guarantee it, and generally being unhelpful about it. And I felt extremely bad because I couldn't reciprocate, once again, even though I felt his pain. Good news: that personal, emotional tragedy of mine was cut short very, very briefly after that. Bad news: because my father had extremely suddenly died, and nor I nor my friend were in the mood to bring up that topic again.
(Before you ask, he got over it, and is still an important friend of mine.)

Fast-forward to college. I started understanding, thanks to anthropology courses, that, maybe, I should start being worried about my absolute lack of sexual activities or desire to engage in any. That newfound asexuality, plus my apparent aromantism and fear to let anyone into my life... didn't make my future look very appealing. I could have become a nun to make something out of it... but I'm also terminally atheistic, and last time I checked, it doesn't help at all in a convent.

Fast-forward to one year ago. Much to my surprise, I started feeling something for my best friend. He was FtM, and had met him on the Internet 10 years ago, before he'd even understood his disorder (that was not the problem, far from it). We had spent so much time together, and understood each other so well, we had basically started considering each other siblings (this was the problem). Being completely clueless, I had no idea how to tell him without breaking our friendship if it turned out he didn't love me back.
We both spent an hilarious month trying to drop increasingly unsubtle but ignored hints for each other, until he snapped and told me he was in love with me.

So, huh, we're together now, we love each other very, very deeply, and I'm planning to move out with him. He's started transitioning after we officially became a couple. Oh, and I learnt the only thing bisexual about me was that I was mentally prepared to the possibility I could love men, women, or others; if anything, women leave me even more apathetic than men. The other thing I learnt was that asexuality had a peculiar branch: demisexuality. My boyfriend and I both happen to be demisexuals, and very picky about the people we forge relationships with.
I learnt not too long ago my father was actually such a homophobic he could have thrown me out of the house if I had dated my friend when he was alive. He was otherwise a wonderful dad, so I have uncomfortable and mixed feelings about his death today.

tl;dr: yo, I'm asexual, my boyfriend is FtM, and I feel compelled to tell my story to the rest of the Webernets.


On-topic: I'll never get it. What the hell is so unfathomable about bisexuality? And how does he know all lesbians use dildos and nothing else? By his logic, do gays want to be women, or are they the only "real" unconventional sexual orientation besides heterosexuality? If the **** is so good and great and awesome, then how can straight men ignore its absolute compelling power?

[Mina Kobold]

Ugh, I just met someone last night who is all. Oh yeah, pro-gay rights, despite being straight. But holds the attitude that bi-sexual's don't exist, and doesn't understand how lesbians could give up the ****.



He kept going on about how all Lesbians want to be men, thus their use of dildos, and them proceeded to tell me I was just bi-curious, and that sooner or later I'd settle on being gay or straight, and that if I didn't I'd just end up unhappy with my partner if I choose them from the 'wrong' sex.

Grr.

*Hug*

That type always seem so weird to me, why do some people claim to know everything about a group of people as vaguely defined as bisexuals?

Psychology is strange sometimes.

Hi! Not-so-short introduction before all:

Spoiler

Show

for most of my life, I considered myself bisexual, all the while being actually terminally asexual. Two boys had fallen in love with me and confessed it. The first one did when I was 12-13; he was 12-13 too. He was a good friend, but an increasingly creepy boy with a psychological profile such as I considered a tragedy would eventually happen (but again, I was 13 with almost no friend beside him, and he'd always acted like a perfect gentleman in front of my parents, fooling everyone). It was unrequited, but he told me he would just wait until I changed my mind. Last time I ever saw him, it was a few months later, while accompanying him back home through a shortcut, walking though a building site. There were a few things lying around, and among them, iron bars. He took, pretended with an eerie conviction he thought I was a demonic being and was going to bash my skull in, and when he saw me fall backward in terror, laughed madly. Slapped him, ran back home alone as fast as I could, and learnt next September he was in an institute I suspect was of the psychiatric kind. I am glad to tell you that, to my knowledge, he hasn't killed anything else than small animals.
(For the longest time, I blamed that event for my huge lack of attraction towards anyone. Nowadays, I just think it didn't help.)

The second time, it was a very good friend on the Internet who confessed his love for me; I was 17. I freaked out because I had no idea how to react, explained the best I could I just considered him a friend, but that my feelings could change though I couldn't guarantee it, and generally being unhelpful about it. And I felt extremely bad because I couldn't reciprocate, once again, even though I felt his pain. Good news: that personal, emotional tragedy of mine was cut short very, very briefly after that. Bad news: because my father had extremely suddenly died, and nor I nor my friend were in the mood to bring up that topic again.
(Before you ask, he got over it, and is still an important friend of mine.)

Fast-forward to college. I started understanding, thanks to anthropology courses, that, maybe, I should start being worried about my absolute lack of sexual activities or desire to engage in any. That newfound asexuality, plus my apparent aromantism and fear to let anyone into my life... didn't make my future look very appealing. I could have become a nun to make something out of it... but I'm also terminally atheistic, and last time I checked, it doesn't help at all in a convent.

Fast-forward to one year ago. Much to my surprise, I started feeling something for my best friend. He was FtM, and had met him on the Internet 10 years ago, before he'd even understood his disorder (that was not the problem, far from it). We had spent so much time together, and understood each other so well, we had basically started considering each other siblings (this was the problem). Being completely clueless, I had no idea how to tell him without breaking our friendship if it turned out he didn't love me back.
We both spent an hilarious month trying to drop increasingly unsubtle but ignored hints for each other, until he snapped and told me he was in love with me.

So, huh, we're together now, we love each other very, very deeply, and I'm planning to move out with him. He's started transitioning after we officially became a couple. Oh, and I learnt the only thing bisexual about me was that I was mentally prepared to the possibility I could love men, women, or others; if anything, women leave me even more apathetic than men. The other thing I learnt was that asexuality had a peculiar branch: demisexuality. My boyfriend and I both happen to be demisexuals, and very picky about the people we forge relationships with.
I learnt not too long ago my father was actually such a homophobic he could have thrown me out of the house if I had dated my friend when he was alive. He was otherwise a wonderful dad, so I have uncomfortable and mixed feelings about his death today.

tl;dr: yo, I'm asexual, my boyfriend is FtM, and I feel compelled to tell my story to the rest of the Webernets.

That's a sweet story, apart from the psychotic child of course. Nice to know that asexual people can have a happy eneding too.

What's demisexual, by the way?

[Mono Vertigo]

That's a sweet story, apart from the psychotic child of course. Nice to know that asexual people can have a happy eneding too.

What's demisexual, by the way?

Thanks

The only definition I've gotten is from the Internet, so there may be nuances I'm missing. A demisexual acts generally like an asexual: they feel no sexual attraction towards most people. They only feel sexual attraction towards people they have forged strong bonds/fallen in love with.
So, in effect, I only feel attracted to my boyfriend, whom I've fallen in love with only because of the preexisting strong friendship between us.
Might be more common than you think; a few asexuals I've talked to online realized they fit that definition, only they didn't know there was a word for it. Seems there's a word for anything, nowadays. This one certainly beats the longer "boyfriendsexual".

[Heliomance]

Huh. Wish I was demisexual. I thoroughly dislike my sex drive.

[Krade]

I don't often come in here. Occassionally I'll pop in, check out the discussion, see if I have anything to add and, if I do (rare), usually just drop a single post and move on. That said, here is that (probably single) post:

If the **** is so good and great and awesome, then how can straight men ignore its absolute compelling power?

That... is a terrific question. I think that most guys who would say something like that are really testing the waters to see if they could land a threesome with a pair of lesbians. So hooray for unrealistic views staight men have of lesbians, I guess.

Also, to any of you who might be asked such a question in the future, I wholeheartedly wish for you to propose that question to the offending member of my demographic. Most of us need a better perspective on the whole "not being straight" thing. Just sayin'.

[Dire Moose]

Ugh, I just met someone last night who is all. Oh yeah, pro-gay rights, despite being straight. But holds the attitude that bi-sexual's don't exist, and doesn't understand how lesbians could give up the ****.



He kept going on about how all Lesbians want to be men, thus their use of dildos, and them proceeded to tell me I was just bi-curious, and that sooner or later I'd settle on being gay or straight, and that if I didn't I'd just end up unhappy with my partner if I choose them from the 'wrong' sex.

Grr.

While my ex-girlfriend acknowledged that bisexuality is a valid orientation (and is bisexual herself) she had a strange perspective on the subject, believing that all bisexuals eventually have to choose between being gay or straight at some point. I still do not know how she could have arrived at such a conclusion.

While it is true that bisexual people may marry like everyone else, being in a marriage with a woman does not mean that attraction to men disappears or anything.

[celtois]

This guys logic was that Bi-sexual people are never perfectly 50-50 so if they go with the sex they are generally less attracted to they will eventually leave that person.

They were just in denial.


Thanks guys, it was just kinda shocking I always hear stories about people saying bisexuals don't exist but I've never met someone who actually thinks that.


And the Lesbian thing, just UGH. I hate that attitude.

But hey people will be people, nothing I can do about it. I just felt like ranting, so thanks guys.

[Serpentine]

Right. No. I reject your making that into a double entendre for double entendre's sake and no other reason.

What are you talking about? He was using a different definition of the term to you. That's it.

[golentan]

Moose: I guess that her view kind of ties into the idea that sexual orientation is behavior rather than nature, and is logically consistent with that. The thing is, naturists and behaviorists simply never seem to move past talking past each other, which drives me nuts.

Edit: New SMBC-Theater is relevant to our interests.

[Lissou]

I've always been annoyed by the idea that liking toys = liking penis.
Your orientation isn't about the sex acts you like, but who you like to do them with. If you're a guy who wants a woman to use toys on you, you like women. If you're a woman who wants a woman to use toys on you, you like women (and both may like males too, but it's not compulsory due to the use of toys).

Plus, I like men and I don't like toys, so it doesn't even work the other way around either! Why would using a toy always mean you're using it "instead of a penis"? Does that mean that a gay person who uses a fleshlight is secretly straight because it's "instead of a vagina"? Just like there are other orifices, there are other insertive body parts (fingers or fists for instance) and female have these as much as males.
And the way I understand it, a lot of people use toys specifically because they do things a penis cannot do, so they're hardly "replacement" for one.