Let's Build: One (1) Kick-Ass* Setting

[Vva70]

OK, basically, all of this can be reduced to four options.

Magic External to Beings: This one is difficult, because non-human supernatural beings are magic, and we established that they exist independent of anything else.

Magic Internal to Beings: This one is more functional considering previous options. However, from what I can tell, it's not as popular.

Magic is a Hybrid: This is where magic is both external and internal, and both are needed to accomplish anything. I'm not sure how to fluff this one up, however.

Magic is a Mixture: This is where magic is both external and internal, but at least two of the above are viable approaches to magic.

Note that I'm not asking you to vote yet, I'm just asking if this distinction makes sense to you.

Just to see if I understand this:

In Magic External to Beings a mage can do magic stuff by manipulating an external magic medium, and anyone who learns can do this. And a werewolf is a creature who has an instinctive ability to do simple transforming stuff with this external medium, without knowing how to manipulate it on a conscious level. And someone bitten by a werewolf has just had a new set of instincts forcefully grafted onto his psyche.

In Magic Internal to Beings a mage can do magic stuff because a mage has internal magic power, while a normal person doesn't. And a werewolf can transform because the transforming magic is part of what it is. And someone bitten by a werewolf has just gotten an infusion of werewolf-style magic.

In Magic is a Hybrid a mage uses an external magic medium to do his magic stuff, but still has to have an internal connection. And a werewolf has a much more limited internal connection, but the transforming effect is still caused by the external medium. Thus, if the werewolf is in a magic-suppressed area, he can't transform.

In Magic is a Mixture there is an external medium, and a mage can manipulate it without having any special connection. And a werewolf has an internal supply of magic that makes him transform, regardless of the external medium. And some people/beings can also do the whole "internal connection to the external medium" thing from the hybrid version.

Is that right?

[Admiral Squish]

I'd probably go with magic is a mixture. Aether is a natural force, a kind of radiation. 'Supernatural' flora and fauna have some method of metabolizing and/or manipulating the aether to produce spectacular effects. Most humans cannot naturally manipulate aethir, though there would be some born with a mutation or gene that would allow them to manipulate or metabolize it naturally. However, all humans have the potential to manipulate it through training.

[Icedaemon]

That's why I added Crystal Drainers. If they are naturally occurring in high-Aether spots they can stop lots of the Wild Magic zones opening

This would overcomplicate matters and open up new questions as to how something as odd as a crystal drainer can simply occur naturally.

I believe it would also be better for living creatures to create very small amounts of Aether, if not none at all, in that it creates the interesting situation where most people have settled in specific locations, but the highly magical creatures and powerful wizards are rather nomadic. If Aether is not a resource that people can simply generate, this also allows for storylines regarding conservation of Aether - if there are too many magical items and wizards, they endanger the very source of their power.

The prejudice that is supposed to be inherent in this world as per a previous round of voting could thus be less of a 'magical vs mundane', which is very common in most settings, but hateful rivalry between magicians with different psychologies and between magic-users who learned the crafts and those who are inherently magical (wizards believe that naturally magical creatures are reckless and a wasteful drain on an important resource, while sapient magical beings see the wizards as interlopers stealing their birthright).

Of the condensed options, I therefore pick external magic; magic is an energy field surrounding planets (or at least one world) which interacts with other energy fields.

[DragonOfUndeath]

A Crystal Drainer is a chunk of crystalline thing that drains the Aether. It could be a physical chunk of Aether that sucks more to keep it's form, or it could be a primitive proto-life that doesn't produce Aether but can channel it into minor random events (glittery air, hot and cold flushes etc.)
Crystal Drainers are actually quite easy to explain

[Fable Wright]

Magic is a Mixture.

[Sanguine]

Wait, I thought we weren't voting yet.

[Thinker]

Wait, I thought we weren't voting yet.

We aren't, but people can't read.

[Icedaemon]

We aren't, but people can't read.

Or are just too damn busy rushing to posit their own opinions and arguing (I believe myself to fall into this category).

Personally, I would rather have a longer list, but eh, what ever comes.

[Fable Wright]

We aren't, but people can't read.

Alternatively, we missed that line at the end of the post, and don't have unlimited computer time to look over the minutia of each post.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Alternatively, we missed that line at the end of the post, and don't have unlimited computer time to look over the minutia of each post.

QFT
Some people have time, others don't.

[Thinker]

Alternatively, we missed that line at the end of the post, and don't have unlimited computer time to look over the minutia of each post.

I don't pay attention to every post in the thread either, but I do pay attention to those posted by the person organizing the project. I would think that this person's points of view and posts would be most relevant to the project. You don't need unlimited computer time to read a single semi-important post thoroughly. This is especially true if you legitimately thought we were voting for something, lest you not vote the way you intended. Reading and comprehending an entire message is fairly important for a community project like this one.

[Fable Wright]

I don't pay attention to every post in the thread either, but I do pay attention to those posted by the person organizing the project. I would think that this person's points of view and posts would be most relevant to the project. You don't need unlimited computer time to read a single semi-important post thoroughly. This is especially true if you legitimately thought we were voting for something, lest you not vote the way you intended. Reading and comprehending an entire message is fairly important for a community project like this one.

The last line was added at the end of the page at the end of the last post in the thread. It's quite easy to skip over, especially considering that the main subject was right above that. Are you telling me that you never, ever skipped over a line in someone's post by accident at one point or other? Regardless of how important it is? Sometimes we miss minor (or major) details when they are away from the main part of the conversation. Or at least I do. It doesn't really matter, anyways.

[Thinker]

The last line was added at the end of the page at the end of the last post in the thread. It's quite easy to skip over, especially considering that the main subject was right above that. Are you telling me that you never, ever skipped over a line in someone's post by accident at one point or other? Regardless of how important it is? Sometimes we miss minor (or major) details when they are away from the main part of the conversation. Or at least I do. It doesn't really matter, anyways.

You're right. It doesn't matter that much and I would like to avoid further derailing this topic. If you would like to continue discussing this, feel free to pm me or find me in the unofficial Giantitp IRC channel.

[The Rose Dragon]

Yes, let's calm down and avoid antagonizing each other, shall we? I, at least, don't want this thread to get locked.

((And I still haven't decided on what the next poll should be, but the more I think about it, the less I think it will be about the nature of magic - that's something I'd rather decide for myself, you see.))

[Gwenir]

OK, basically, all of this can be reduced to four options.

Magic External to Beings: This one is difficult, because non-human supernatural beings are magic, and we established that they exist independent of anything else.

Magic Internal to Beings: This one is more functional considering previous options. However, from what I can tell, it's not as popular.

Magic is a Hybrid: This is where magic is both external and internal, and both are needed to accomplish anything. I'm not sure how to fluff this one up, however.

Magic is a Mixture: This is where magic is both external and internal, but at least two of the above are viable approaches to magic.

Note that I'm not asking you to vote yet, I'm just asking if this distinction makes sense to you.

Just to see if I understand this:

In Magic External to Beings a mage can do magic stuff by manipulating an external magic medium, and anyone who learns can do this. And a werewolf is a creature who has an instinctive ability to do simple transforming stuff with this external medium, without knowing how to manipulate it on a conscious level. And someone bitten by a werewolf has just had a new set of instincts forcefully grafted onto his psyche.

In Magic Internal to Beings a mage can do magic stuff because a mage has internal magic power, while a normal person doesn't. And a werewolf can transform because the transforming magic is part of what it is. And someone bitten by a werewolf has just gotten an infusion of werewolf-style magic.

In Magic is a Hybrid a mage uses an external magic medium to do his magic stuff, but still has to have an internal connection. And a werewolf has a much more limited internal connection, but the transforming effect is still caused by the external medium. Thus, if the werewolf is in a magic-suppressed area, he can't transform.

In Magic is a Mixture there is an external medium, and a mage can manipulate it without having any special connection. And a werewolf has an internal supply of magic that makes him transform, regardless of the external medium. And some people/beings can also do the whole "internal connection to the external medium" thing from the hybrid version.

Is that right?

Yes, they make sense and I like these ideas! Here's my understanding of these concepts:

External Magic: Magic exists from an outside source, like radiation from the sun or moon or from the planet itself which can be tapped for a specific purpose (as an example, tapping death magic by casting a spell in a graveyard, where the dead have become an external influence). The werewolf is a good example, where the werewolf is influenced by the Moon, but unable to consciously--internally--manipulate this energy to transform at will (or untransform as it were). To further the concept of the moon as the external influence, if it were a new moon, the werewolf would be unable to transform as the external magic output is too weak; but, if it were the full moon, the werewolf would be at the peak of his power. Like Remus from Harry Potter.

DnD's gods giving power to their clerics are another example of external magic. As is the forgotten realm's magic weave.

Internal Magic: An individual taps from a source located within themselves (or others if you absorb their energy, like a blood sacrifice); Spirit/Life/Blood energy or possessing a naturally occurring genetic trait or mutation with no external influences. Thus, the werewolf is like Jacob from Twilight who can transform at will, based on a genetic trait passed down to him. However, since the theme is internal magic, (still using the Twilight reference) Jacob's transformation into a werewolf had nothing to do with the fact that Vampires were nearby, his tribe's mortal enemy (as is mentioned in the books).

Remember, there are no Gods from up high giving someone their abilities or spells, so, it's the individual themselves that's become the walking, living god.

This "Internal Magic" concept also seems the most scientifically explainable to me.

Hybrid Magic: This sets a minor ground rule in that one cannot exist without the other. Vva70's explanation is very good here. But, to fluff it out a bit more, it becomes my original suggestion: "Magic is everywhere as one unlimited but equal source; however, as it filters throughout the world, it reacts differently to certain individuals..." like if the magic were a conscious thing who seeks creatures with a specific genetic code and manipulates it.

Like the person infected from a werewolf bite; once the full moon rises, the power seeks its were-children and influences them to change, particularly a newly infected human who has no internal ability to resist the call. As a werewolf becomes older and wiser, it can resist the call and not be forced to transform, but to transform at will if that is their wish. But if someone destroyed the moon, werewolves would either permanently revert to human form or simply die without the source.

A mage must be born with the ability to make magic and an external power available to be tapped. Like energy from the moon or sun. Or a magical being who grants the mage its power.

Mixed Magic: The Joker's Wild!! Example: There are werewolves who can only transform when the moon is full; and its a curse to them, having been bitten and infected. And there are werewolves who evolved from nature, who are influenced by the moon perhaps, but they could transform at will, in daylight, moonlight, rain or shine.

There are gods, angels, demons, and genetic mutations and they all have something to say about how you live your life.

Don't like being the milkman? No problem! Find the Black Grimorium at your local Black Magic bookstore, summon a demon, make a pact to receive absolute power in exchange for your mortal soul, and become its mortal minion, creating swathes of epic hell on Earth! Hurrah! Lot in Life Changed! Power Achieved! ...Until the Forces of Good put a damper on your evil parade.

Basically, there are no limitations for magic besides the roleplayer's imagination and self-restraint.

DONE! I hope my explanations make sense to people and helps them pick a choice. =) I think most people would like Hybrid or Mixed the best... but, personally, it's Internal Magic that lures me, as it becomes the individual who rises and changes their own lot in life based on their own power. And if a person/creature lacks said power, well, here's where a huge gun comes into play.

Also, sorry for any typos! I've stayed up too late working on this, hehe.

[DragonOfUndeath]

I particularly like Hybrid.

[SamBurke]

BTW, we just got explicit word-of-god from The Rose Dragon that we wouldn't be polling on that, at least not yet. So, why talk about it?

[DragonOfUndeath]

Because it's interesting and we are using it as a medium to get our general ideas for the setting across

[SamBurke]

Sounds good to me. My thoughts are previously ensconced above.

[Gwenir]

Well, Rose Dragon said that the more they thought about it, the more they wanted the source to be about individual choice, but that would mean that we were dealing with a mixed magic world or simply the DM's choice and this no longer becomes a true voting environment. I think this is a very important aspect of the game-world to poll about that sets the magical boundaries (or lack thereof).


The following is for reference:

Spoiler

Show

The Kick-Ass Setting, as determined by its players
Genre: Fantasy
Subgenre: Urban Fantasy (Elves in the city. With guns.)
Theme: Wardens of the Night (Factions; Very superhero-team-ish)
Magic Level: Rising Magic (Magic is gaining momentum and more and more are able to use it and using it in the open)
Supernatural Inhabitants: Terra Arcana (All creatures, fantastical or otherwise, began on Earth)
Did I miss any?

[Icedaemon]

A Crystal Drainer is a chunk of crystalline thing that drains the Aether. It could be a physical chunk of Aether that sucks more to keep it's form, or it could be a primitive proto-life that doesn't produce Aether but can channel it into minor random events (glittery air, hot and cold flushes etc.)
Crystal Drainers are actually quite easy to explain

Is it? I meant as in 'where they came from'. Unless there are other crystalline lifeforms, something like that would seem out of place. If it is a chunk of aether which takes physical form, there is the question of how it can come to be, if Aether overflow manifests chiefly in creatures becoming magical or wild spells manifesting as originally posited.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Well if Aether manifests in living things then Drainers could be an end product. A being is so filled with Aether it basically starts subsisting off it directly and slowly the living pieces disintegrate leaving only the Drainer.
Not many people would know this though and basically requires Apocalypse levels of Aether with no-one using any Magic

[Icedaemon]

Why not just have all magical creatures put a drain on Aether? It would be a somewhat better choice, methinks, since they actually use the energy instead of making it somehow go away. A sufficiently large roc or dragon needs aether to even fly, for instance - their wingspans clearly do not increase along the logarithmic scale required.

I am still not quite fond of the 'living creatures create large amounts of Aether' version. Real energy does not just happen and magical energy should not come from unlimited sources either (though the principal sources ought to be large enough as to seem unlimited, at first at least). This is not just a fantasy world, but a world where magic is a part of everyday physics, at least in my mind.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Aether is a byproduct of Life as well as a natural reaction. Different races might have different outputs (maybe less or more than 1) but it is a genetic thing developed so Magical creatures (which consume Aether to activate it's abilities) or Magic-using creatures (Wizards) will always have something to draw on, just in case the stars align or something and the creation of Natural Aether dries up.

It could manifest as an organ like an Appendix that most people don't know actually serves that function (or any function) or simply built into the stomach/intestines and irremovable.

[Icedaemon]

If everyone can create sufficient amounts of magical energy from nothing, things would be far too simple for magical creatures and magic users, once again bringing us back to the question 'why have anything but magic?' which needs an answer in a setting such as this.

If non-gas-filled things can float in a null-magic zone and a skeleton might walk into one without problems on their own power, there is little point in the existence of such. Furthermore, assuming that Aether is at all similar to reality-based energy sources, it would only be an another form of energy, one that has no infinite source, but might be converted from another form via among others some biological processes.

If living beings either do not create Aether or (at least in the vast majority of cases) only generate very small amounts, there would also be more story opportunities, reasons for PCs to explore the world and a nice reason for nomadic and settled societies to exist in parallel even in highly-developed worlds.

As an aside, the appendix is not an inherently useless thing, but the remnant of an organ that has become useless (or simply too costly for the body to maintain) via evolution, so it really has no place acting as a source of Aether.

[The Rose Dragon]

Guys, I thought I'd warn you in advance that I'm taking a month's break from this, due to impending senior finals, and I do want to graduate this year (as opposed to the last year, where I had no hope of doing so). I will be back in June, and I will probably have better ideas and a more healthy mindset by then. Don't worry, though, we will keep your votes so far.

[SamBurke]

Nooooo!

So... now what?

[3SecondCultist]

Um... hello all. Is it cool if I join the (stalled) process at this juncture? I really like what you guys are doing and want to pitch in, if possible.