General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

[DragonSinged]

So, I'm running a one-shot Exalted game for my gaming-buddies, and one of them decided he really wants to play a sort of salty sea-dog pirate captain type. Of course, being limited to sailing on the ocean wouldn't do, so he's the captain of a Land Ship.
Anyways, he thought, well, Pirates gots to have their guns, and I'm like, "Yeah, totally."
But, uh, finding artifact firewands is not so easy.

I've been able to find alchemical fire weapons from Wonders of the Lost Age, and the Fiery Solar Cannon (that thing's crazy), but that's about it.
Any suggestions?

[Yuki Akuma]

Prayer Pieces from Glories of the Most High: Unconquered Sun.

Artifact guns that shoot actual bullets. Traditionally gold but lead works just fine.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Plasma Tongue Repeaters are probably best. If they're good enough for ?, then they're good enough for you. Also pick up some excellent/perfect quality firewands for backup.

The alchemical fire weapons are the only Artifact firewands that exist, I believe. Everything else is Essence-based.

Though if he's a Solar, check out the Prayer Piece from Glories of the Most High: The Unconquered Sun. It's a revolver.

That fires gold bullets.

Powered by hope, fighting spirit, and tiny little gods that live inside of the gun.

**** yeah.

[Yuki Akuma]

Prayer Pieces do not look like revolves (although Plasma Tongue Repeaters do).

Prayer Pieces look like single-shot guns that just somehow happen to hold five rounds of ammunition at once.

[Turalisj]

I flavor my Prayer Pieces to look like a pair of M1911's. Plated in gold.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Prayer Pieces do not look like revolves (although Plasma Tongue Repeaters do).

Prayer Pieces look like single-shot guns that just somehow happen to hold five rounds of ammunition at once.

That looks less cool, your argument is invalid.

I mean, really, it's pretty clearly meant to be a revolver by the description. It holds five rounds, looks like a flame piece (which the picture doesn't), and when you fire it, it goes BANG and a cloud of smoke comes out. Also, for the crux of the matter, the picture looks far less awesome then it should.

[DragonSinged]

Yeah, looking at it, GotMH: US seems to re-use a lot of artwork from the other books, and that specific gun is just a repeat picture of one of the Alchemical Fire weapons.

Ahh well. Reused artwork equals smaller budgets equals more books. You know, in an ideal world.
Come on, let me dream at least.

[The Rose Dragon]

Prayer Pieces from Glories of the Most High: Unconquered Sun.

Artifact guns that shoot actual bullets. Traditionally gold but lead works just fine.

And they cost 1 mote for each shot, even with the bullets. And the bullets take lots of time to craft. And they cost Artifact 3 instead of Artifact 2. And they have an attunement cost. They do deal aggravated damage to creatures of darkness and have a longer range than plasma tongue repeaters, but that's not worth the much greater maintenance they require.

[a_humble_lich]

Yeah, looking at it, GotMH: US seems to re-use a lot of artwork from the other books, and that specific gun is just a repeat picture of one of the Alchemical Fire weapons.

Ahh well. Reused artwork equals smaller budgets equals more books. You know, in an ideal world.
Come on, let me dream at least.

As far as I know, all of the artwork in all three of the GotMH is reused. I assume this let them save time/money to work on CoCD: Autobot. And the pdfs are cheap, so I'm not complaining.

[The Rose Dragon]

As far as I know, all of the artwork in all three of the GotMH is reused. I assume this let them save time/money to work on CoCD: Autobot. And the pdfs are cheap, so I'm not complaining.

One was even reused retroactively. It was originally commissioned for Return of the Scarlet Empress, but it was reused in the Unconquered Sun, which was released before Return of the Scarlet Empress.

[Mr.Bookworm]

And they cost 1 mote for each shot, even with the bullets. And the bullets take lots of time to craft. And they cost Artifact 3 instead of Artifact 2. And they have an attunement cost. They do deal aggravated damage to creatures of darkness and have a longer range than plasma tongue repeaters, but that's not worth the much greater maintenance they require.

Prayer Pieces are a pain in the ass in some respects, yeah. You don't need to make the ammo yourself, though, and it would be pretty easy to round up a couple of mortals capable of doing it.

Still, yeah, sadly probably not worth it. I'd price them as an Artifact 2, personally. They're better then a PTR in some respects, particularly against creatures of darkness, but they have aforementioned drawbacks.

Also, DragonSinged: Check out pg. 131 of WotLA. Concussive Essence Cannons are another option.

[masterjoda99]

Am I the only one who thinks that meschlum's various fair folk tricks and tips of badassery should be compiled into one handy pdf?

[The Rose Dragon]

Am I the only one who thinks that meschlum's various fair folk tricks and tips of badassery should be compiled into one handy pdf?

What, you want to mock White Wolf freelancers for their terrible writing and understanding of setting-mechanics connection? Isn't that a rather cruel thing to do?

[Turalisj]

What, you want to mock White Wolf freelancers for their terrible writing and understanding of setting-mechanics connection? Isn't that a rather cruel thing to do?

No, because people do that on the WW forums all the time.

Also, I take it the Scarlet Dawn game is dead?

[Mr.Bookworm]

Masterjoda, you instantly get a point from me for having a Legend of Koizumi avatar.

Also, campaign idea I've been kicking around for a bit, that I will probably run whenever the Deathlord game is over, be that in two weeks when it implodes from stress (statistical likelihood based on what I've observed about forum games), or in two years when we actually finish it against the odds.

Setup: Autochthon, 5000+ years ago when he drew up the Exalted blueprints, was not an idiot. He foresaw that the weapons he created to kill his brothers could be turned against him. So one of the fundamental design features of the Exaltations he created was a backdoor kill-switch that could be set on a timer. The Exaltations were designed to be indestructible, but if Autochthon decided so, he could activate a signal that would cause the Exaltations to muck up their own inner workings to the point that only someone possessing the most detailed knowledge (i.e. Autobot) could fix them. The Exaltations would then automatically be rerouted into a prison that only Autochthon knew the location of. The Dragon-Bloods have a similar treatment built into their own blood, that Autochthon put in when he helped Gaia design them.

So, Primordial War happens, Autochthon becomes very, very happy that he decided to install the switch. At the end of the War, fearing that he might be next, he decides to flip the switch on a delay. Say, 5000 years. A blink of the eye for a Primordial. After the Great Geas, Autobot's fears are even more confirmed in his eyes, and he decides to bug off for a couple millenniums. He goes off to take a brief nap, let his chosen people muck about in his body some, standard Autochthon background. He would then come back in a bit, to see how the Exalted have developed. If they're still scary bastards, Autochthon lets the countdown proceed. If not, he can deactivate, no harm done.

Only robocancer happens, and Autochthon doesn't wake up like he expected to.

So at the start of the story, every single Exalted is killed instantly in a blaze of Essence as their Exaltation implodes and is ripped off of their souls, incredibly violently for Celestial Exalted (Chejop Kejak goes off like a soulbreaker orb). Even the Abyssals and Infernals have this fundamental switch activated. Any of the Dragon-Blooded that have a Breeding rating of 1 or less survive, but are suddenly powerless.

So, there are a few places you can go from here. You can play heroic mortals in a world suddenly bereft of it's champions. You could ignore the bit about Infernals/Abyssals not surviving, that the changes to the Exaltations protected them, and say that the Yozis and/or Neverborn now have a much easier time (well, easier then they already have now that the Exalted are gone).

You could also play an Alchemical game. The very first, prototypical Exalted probably didn't have the switch built-in. They open up the first portal to find a world on the brink of collapse. The Deathlords send armies of the dead across the world, the Reclamation's agents prepare for an imminent demonic invasion, and the Fair Folk shift for a second Crusade.

Thoughts, besides "That's not how Exaltations work", because I know that?

[Lix Lorn]

Depressingest setting ever? XD

[Mr.Bookworm]

Nah, that's the Bad End of Return of the Scarlet Empress. Close, though.

This would likely involve some retconning of Deathlord capabilities, to make them near powerless outside of the Underworld and shadowlands. So while huge armies of the dead are now marching and slowly spreading shadowlands, the Mask of Winters and company are stuck at a pretty glacial pace of conquest without their knights.

Likewise with the Yozis. The death of the Scarlet Empress and the Green Sun Princes pushed back the timetable of the Reclamation by quite a bit, but it's a lot more certain now that they don't have Exalted opposing them. Mortal akuma become a lot more common. Also, if there's anyone with the necessary knowledge to fix the Exaltations, it's the Ebon Dragon.

God-Bloods and other non-Exalted Essence wielders are now king.

Lookshy is better off then the Realm, because a lot of their arsenal is still operational, but they're stuck dealing with the Mask of Winters. Expect lots of little splinter states in both places.

The Incarnae are still dealing with their crack addiction, but Heaven is reeling in chaos with every single Sidereal going boom, albeit slowly due to the bureaucratic crapshoot that it is.

The most immediate problem is the raksha, really.

[Turalisj]

The only thing I see with that is- what of the Devil-Tigers? Is the killswitch strong enough that a fledgling Primordial can be affected, or does the change into a proto-eldritch horror break the switch off so that they are their future incarnations wont be affected?

[TheCountAlucard]

Nah, that's the Bad End of Return of the Scarlet Empress.

No, even that still has Exalts, and thus the defeat of the Ebon Dragon is thus inevitable.

The Exalted setting, without any Exalts? It is quite literally hopeless.

I'd also like to question why Autobot would blow up all the DBs save for the low-to-no-Breeding ones. After all, that pretty much guarantees the Dragon-Blooded would never recover from such a blow, either in numbers or in strength of blood. For a creation you've intended to serve as an army, you've crippled it almost irreparably.

[Feriority]

I'd keep the infernals and abyssals getting kill-switched, because otherwise, the Deathlords just look even MORE stupid for not immediately capitalizing on the fact that they have the only Exalts anywhere, plus their own capabilities (since they don't know about the infernals).

I really like the idea of using that setting and playing with heroic mortals who were in the right place at the right time to start gathering followers/supporters, building an army, and then building a nation (or allied but separate nations) out of the chaos.

... or I would, if not for the fact that mass combat and nation building are totally broken. But if it ran in a different system, with that setting? That has the potential to be a really awesome game.

[Turalisj]

I really like the idea of using that setting and playing with heroic mortals who were in the right place at the right time to start gathering followers/supporters, building an army, and then building a nation (or allied but separate nations) out of the chaos.

... or I would, if not for the fact that mass combat and nation building are totally broken. But if it ran in a different system, with that setting? That has the potential to be a really awesome game.

This would work too, but it'd have to be with a mass combat/nation building system that isn't so weird.

[Sanguine]

The only thing I see with that is- what of the Devil-Tigers? Is the killswitch strong enough that a fledgling Primordial can be affected, or does the change into a proto-eldritch horror break the switch off so that they are their future incarnations wont be affected?

Please reread the sidebar, Devil-Tigers are not Primordials they are something similar but different, and much greater.

Anyway, I would say if they have (Devil-Tiger) Eternal Essence, which does not require Cosmic Principle so it's a perfectly legal Charm purchase at Essence 7, they would be safe. But that's just my opinion.

[Turalisj]

Please reread the sidebar, Devil-Tigers are not Primordials they are something similar but different, and much greater.

Ok. The proto-eldritch horror stands though.

[masterjoda99]

What, you want to mock White Wolf freelancers for their terrible writing and understanding of setting-mechanics connection? Isn't that a rather cruel thing to do?

Not so much mocking anyone, but because I find meschlum's works to be great inspiration for playing raksha, while before they were far to easy to see as chumps and little more, fit for play only in fringe cases.

[Mr.Bookworm]

No, even that still has Exalts, and thus the defeat of the Ebon Dragon is thus inevitable.

True.

The Exalted setting, without any Exalts? It is quite literally hopeless.

Well, this does have the potential for the Exalted to come back.

And the Alchemicals are probably still around, if you want to run it that way.

It's also not quite hopeless. The Incarnae are still around and Autobot can be woken up to fix the Exalted. Things like the Sword of Creation still exist. The Deathlords, Yozis, and Fair Folk will prevent each other from immediately running all over Creation, giving the heroes time to act.

It is certainly an apocalypse, though.

I'd also like to question why Autobot would blow up all the DBs save for the low-to-no-Breeding ones. After all, that pretty much guarantees the Dragon-Blooded would never recover from such a blow, either in numbers or in strength of blood. For a creation you've intended to serve as an army, you've crippled it almost irreparably.

He didn't intend it that way. The kill-switch is, due to the way DB Exaltations work, encoded into their blood/genetic material/whatever it is that passes on their power. It would have killed off every single DB back when they first came into existence, which was the intention. This was a doomsday switch, for the eventual possibility that the Exalted might turn against him, and thus was supposed to kill every single one of them. He freaked out and flipped it at the end of the Primordial War.

A DB with Breeding 5 is literally going to explode, quite violently. Same thing with Breeding 4 and 3, less violently in each case. A Breeding 2 DB will twitch and shudder a bit as their body reacts quite violently, and then keel over dead. A DB with Breeding 1 is going to have quite a long period of time where they experience mind-shattering (possibly literally) pain, but they'll probably live. If you don't have a Breeding rating, you live, albeit experiencing the worst toothache possibly imaginable across their entire body for a little bit. Also the losing their powers bit for those last two, because your pseudo-Exaltation still gets wiped out, you just live through it.

And yes, this flies against how Exaltations canonically work. I know.

EDIT: Devil-Tigers go squish, as they're still Exalted. Anything with an Exaltation dies pretty horribly, basically.

[Sanguine]

Ok. The proto-eldritch horror stands though.

Actualy, I would argue that proto is hardly the right prefix. After all Devil-Tigers are far from the first Eldritch Horrors the Exalted setting has had. Also I could argue that they aren't Eldritch Horrors by quoting Holden on the matter of Cthulhu.

Allow me to start by saying: **** Cthulhu. **** him right in his tentacled face.

Exalted is most interesting to me in its 'morality play' mode, and seething incomprehensible and uncomprehending primal chaos is absolutely useless in that context. You can no more assign moral judgments to Cthulhu than you can assign them to a hurricane. As such, he's worthless to Exalted. If he must be present, let him be scenery, not a character. Screw him.

However my objection would depend upon exactly what you mean by Eldritch Horror.

Is it obvious I like to nitpick?

EDIT: Devil-Tigers go squish, as they're still Exalted. Anything with an Exaltation dies pretty horribly, basically.

But if they know (Devil-Tiger/Yozi) Eternal Essence they are immune to permanent death via any means other than specific Exalted Charms.

[Mr.Bookworm]

But if they know (Devil-Tiger/Yozi) Eternal Essence they are immune to permanent death via any means other than specific Exalted Charms.

(Devil-Tiger) Eternal Essence isn't actually a thing, but I see your point

Several possibilities:

1) They survive! This is probably a game where you're playing as Devil-Tigers. Could be cool.

2) They don't quite die. They survive, as Eternal Essence serves as an ablative shield. They then lose all of their powers. Their eternal core of Essence protects them as it is stripped away from them.

3) They die because (pick one):

a) The kill-switch bypasses all effects. It attacks the Exaltation directly, on a level that nothing other then the Great Curse has ever done.

b) If you accept an Eclipse oath, you can do absolutely nothing to remove the penalty if you break it, because it's a deal you accepted. Similar deal with this. Part of the package of accepting an Exaltation is dealing with all side-effects of it (Great Curse, etc.). Including the switch.

c) The switch is an Exalted-level Charm. An Autochthon Charm, precisely.

[Sanguine]

(Devil-Tiger) Eternal Essence isn't actually a thing, but I see your point

Yeah it was just my way of saying (Yozi) Eternal Essence taken for the Charm Set created by Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger. Which totally is a real thing as Eternal Essence is a General Charm and does not require Cosmic Principle.

c) The switch is an Exalted-level Charm. An Autochthon Charm, precisely.

I don't have anything to say on the other matters. But on this: Autochthon's Charms aren't Exalted Charms, they are Primordial Charms which explicitly can't permanently kill someone with Eternal Essence. When Autochthon made the Exalted he made something greater than himself; at least when it comes to killing Primordials and incidentally Devil-Tigers with Eternal Essence.

[meschlum]

So, I'm running a one-shot Exalted game for my gaming-buddies, and one of them decided he really wants to play a sort of salty sea-dog pirate captain type. Of course, being limited to sailing on the ocean wouldn't do, so he's the captain of a Land Ship.
Anyways, he thought, well, Pirates gots to have their guns, and I'm like, "Yeah, totally."
But, uh, finding artifact firewands is not so easy.

I've been able to find alchemical fire weapons from Wonders of the Lost Age, and the Fiery Solar Cannon (that thing's crazy), but that's about it.
Any suggestions?

Have a few!

Eyepatch of the Great Captain

Formed from the determination of a Raksha commoner to sail across Creation (especially the land-locked parts), the Eyepatch is meant to be worn over one eye. Since the Fair Folk do not fully comprehend the features of Creation-born anatomy - or Creation-based physics - it does nothing to impede vision, and in fact assists its wearer - revealing optimal firing angles and perfectly timing the swing of chandeliers, for instance. A single angry glance is often enough to snap ropes and set them swinging, cut through bonds, or finish off a guard.

1-dot Behemoth
Assumption of the Person's Heart: once you put on the Eyepatch, it will not come off until you die.
Assumption of Dreams and Passion: grants 1 automatic success to any action in which superb vision can assist swashbuckling.
Imposition of Law: the Eyepatch cannot miss with guns. More to the point, neither can you (barring a stunt or Charm)
Surpassing Excellence: even if something happens that would make you miss, you are still an incredibly good shot. Take 2 bonus die to all Dex+Archery (guns) rolls, which do not count as coming from charms and stack with equipment, specializations, etc.

Incidentally, the Eyepatch does the damage of a Fine Knife by glaring at people - up to thrown range.

3 motes commitment, counts as a 1-dot artifact.


The Doom Squawker

To normal eyes a mundane parrot, the Squawker has flown from the depths of the Wyld in order to ensure that the glorious piracy by which it lives may endure. Sadly, its sense of direction is rather poor, as is its memory, so it contents itself with selecting a likely pirate and following them until the end. This wily beast is somewhat dangerous on its own, and has a knack for turning up underfoot at the most unexpected moments, with a fully loaded and primed flame piece ready for its master.

1-dot Behemoth
Assumption of Dreams and Passion: once you are chosen, this parrot will never let you go. Also, it becomes immaterial if it moves out of your line of sight, allowing it to spy for you and reach you even if you're locked up.
Ordinary Object Conjuration: At will, the parrot can produce a fully loaded Perfect Flame Piece. Yes, this means you don't have to bother with reloading. Consider bonuses to Rate for extra fun - and some clever Squawkers even produce them by the pair.
Gossamer Wing Flight: it's a parrot. It flies.

For the record, the Squawker's favorite food is fingers, followed by crackers. In order to sate its appetite, its bite works like a Fine greatsword.

3 motes commitment, counts as a 1-dot artifact.


The Bigger Gun

Once introduced to the concept of overwhelming firepower, the Fair Folk wholeheartedly adopted the concept, and sent it out to pasture with the other ideas they stole. After a while, it matured, and came back from the depths of the Wyld in order to impose itself once more upon Creation. Taking the form of a weapon of surpassing power, it has a bad habit of firing on its own if it feels insufficiently employed, to rather terrifying consequences. In such cases, it is a well attested fact that it shoots first. And last. And a lot of the rest of time.

3-dot Behemoth
Assumption of Dreams and Passion: it looks like the best gun ever, and grants 1 automatic success to all actions where it can inflict significant collateral damage. This includes making toast.
Blade Turning Skin: the Gun's user has a bad habit of ending up in explosive situations. Accordingly, it (and sometimes its owner) get an Aggravated Soak equal to its owner's Essence.
Armament of Flesh
Knife Hand Dream
Hundred Hand Style
Luminous Exhalation
Surpassing Excellence
Swift Wings of Song

On its own, the Gun has the following stat block:
Speed 5 Accuracy +4 Damage 13L Rate 4 Range 10

It never needs to be reloaded.
If the owner has Essence 3+, it gains +5 to damage (and does Aggravated damage at Essence 5+)
It has an extra (Essence) points to add to its features (including Rate, but not Speed) - these cannot be changed after being chosen, and can provide at most a +4 to any feature.
It gets (and can grant) a bonus of (Cup) automatic successes to Join Battle.
The Eyepatch cannot increase the Gun's Accuracy further (though it still means you never miss).

Requires 9 committed motes, artifact 3.

(If you're willing to go to Artifact 4, you get even better combat stats, and more special powers).

[masterjoda99]

See, this is what I was getting at. Anyway, I dunno if I'm missing something, reading graceful wicked masues always gets me confused, but how does one construct an oneiromancy/adjuration/behemoth in actual play, post-chargen, as opposed to spending bp?