General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate

[ShadowFighter15]

...ah. For some reason I thought you were referring to the game I'm recruiting for right now. Where they also have 90 BP.

Are you still recruiting? Scarlet Eclipse has hit a bit of a stall (the ST hasn't logged in since the 20th of April) and I might be able to modify Daine a bit for it.

And I forgot about Kes as well - but I get the feeling that he could be a Chessmaster in more than one way. He was playing against Mnemon in one comic, after all. Kicking her butt too, if her reaction was anything to go by.

What were the changes to the Dawn Caste anima? My Scroll of Errata is a bit out of date, and the Exalted Wiki only has the Twilight one.

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By spending five motes of Essence, the character may appear
glorious and terrifying until the end of the scene (or until
she decides to let the effect dissipate). She appears taller and
fiercer, with a terrible visage, burning eyes and a deadly, rending
grasp. This effect comes into play automatically once the
Solar spends 11+ motes of Peripheral Essence.

While this power is in effect, the character exudes a fear aura
which causes all opponents attempting to attack or oppose her
(socially or physically) to suffer a -1 external penalty on all attack
rolls. This unnatural Emotion effect costs five points of
Willpower to ignore for the rest of the scene. The Dawn’s terrifying
glory unbound also disrupts attempts at coordinating
attacks against her, increasing the difficulty to arrange such attacks
by 2. Additionally, the immense Essence pressure within
the character’s anima slows all incoming attacks, increasing
the character’s DVs by 2. Finally, Solars of the Dawn Caste
are immune to all fear-based Emotion effects while their anima
power is active. If a complementary mass combat unit is forced
to check for rout because of the Dawn Caste’s actions while
this anima is active, they suffer a -2 external penalty to the roll.

The above also applies to the Dusk and Slayer anima powers.

[Kris Strife]

Is that the same thing as the Dawn Solution Errata?

[Neon Knight]

Are you still recruiting? Scarlet Eclipse has hit a bit of a stall (the ST hasn't logged in since the 20th of April) and I might be able to modify Daine a bit for it.

If I remember correctly, the game he is referring to is a game for Deathlords.

So I think your character most probably would need quite a bit of modifications to fit into it.

[The Rose Dragon]

Luna (because troll gods are always amusing. Besides, actually bothering to personally visit her Exalts instead of leaving them a premade message in the answering machine scores her points).

Well, no Incarna sends premade messages to their Exalts. The Maidens just skip the message part entirely, while the Unconquered Sun, when he deigns to send a message, always tailors the message specifically to the new Exalt. Of course, it is quite unclear why he sends a message to some Exalts and not the others, and why he always sends one to Zeniths.

[ShadowFighter15]

Is that the same thing as the Dawn Solution Errata?

Yeah, the Dawn Solution is now part of the Scroll of Errata.

If I remember correctly, the game he is referring to is a game for Deathlords.

So I think your character most probably would need quite a bit of modifications to fit into it.

Ah, nevermind then.

[The Rose Dragon]

Yeah, the Dawn Solution is now part of the Scroll of Errata.

Dawn Solution, in its entirety, is not part of the Scroll of Errata. The parts where it crosses over with errata, however, such as Dawn anima and the new chargen rules, are.

[WalkingTarget]

and why he always sends one to Zeniths.

Well, the fluff reason there is that they are, by default, his priests. Kinda helps to spread the faith when you've personally gotten a personal message from the head honcho himself. At least, that was always my interpretation.

Why only some of the others get messages... [shrug]

[Tavar]

Managed to get him to Essence 5 with all those extra BP, though I wasn't able to get him a perfect attack.

At least he's got a Perfect Dodge so at least he has a decent chance of surviving long enough to learn a perfect attack.

I'd skip getting a perfect attack. From what I've seen they're generally incredibly inefficient with regards to mote/willpower cost, and perfect defenses block them. Plus, against the things you want to use them against, you'll probably need a perfect defense against their attacks, so you'll need to have a combo made.

[Turalisj]

Plus, counter attack perfect combos!

Unless there's a clause in there that prevents it.

[Psyborg]

Well, the fluff reason there is that they are, by default, his priests. Kinda helps to spread the faith when you've personally gotten a personal message from the head honcho himself. At least, that was always my interpretation.

Why only some of the others get messages... [shrug]

My take: If it happens to be someone else's turn at the Games of Divinity, he'll send a message. If it's his turn when a non-Zenith Solar exalts, it won't even register, tough luck; if a Zenith, he'll notice (he has a more personal connection to the Zenith exaltations, strong enough for him to notice even when he's playing the Games) and send a message as soon as his turn is over.

Of course, I don't know exactly how long turns at the Games last. Long enough for Luna to carry on with Gaia during her turn off, but short enough she can appear to every one of her Exalts at or almost-immediately following their exaltations. So...a few to several hours?

[Yuki Akuma]

Luna can be in more than one place at once.

The Unconquered Sun can't.

[tonberrian]

My take: If it happens to be someone else's turn at the Games of Divinity, he'll send a message. If it's his turn when a non-Zenith Solar exalts, it won't even register, tough luck; if a Zenith, he'll notice (he has a more personal connection to the Zenith exaltations, strong enough for him to notice even when he's playing the Games) and send a message as soon as his turn is over.

Of course, I don't know exactly how long turns at the Games last. Long enough for Luna to carry on with Gaia during her turn off, but short enough she can appear to every one of her Exalts at or almost-immediately following their exaltations. So...a few to several hours?

Actually, Luna can be in multiple places at once. She can be having quality time with Gaia, briefly besting Sol at the Games, and visiting any newly exalted Lunars all at the same time.

Edit: Waiter, there's a Sidereal in my teacup.

[Yuki Akuma]

Edit: Waiter, there's a Sidereal in my teacup.

Adamant-caste, actually.

[tonberrian]

Adamant-caste, actually.

Silly obviously mortal person, there are no such things as Adamant Castes. If there were, surely I, a Starmetal Caste of extraordinary investigative skills, would know about it.

[Turalisj]

Silly obviously mortal person, there are no such things as Adamant Castes. If there were, surely I, a Starmetal Caste of extraordinary investigative skills, would know about it.

Starmetals don't get extraordinary investigative abilities. They can get superhuman intelligence, perception, and wits though.

[Yuki Akuma]

He could, however, have "Investation 5 (Finding Adamant castes +3)" for the cheap cost of one charm and three submodules.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Ah, nevermind then.

Yeah, you would need to do a bit of modifying.

Also, I just looked over RttTotFC (aaaargh), and by the light of Luna those are some unoptimized characters. Not necessarily unsurvivable, but they'll probably run into some problems as is. Here is some entirely unsolicited advice about how I'd change them.

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Kade: Drop the Ox-Body and the 1st Lore Excellency, and grab Bulwark Stance and Heavenly Guardian Defense. Drop 1st Integrity Excellency and get the 2nd Integrity Excellency. Drop 1st Ride Excellency and get the 3rd Ride Excellency. Drop the two dots of Connections which you can pick up as easily as blinking in the course of the game, and get the man a daiklave for Sol's sake.

Morning Breeze: Drop One Weapon, Two Blows and the Ox-Body. Flip a dot of Melee over to Dodge. Grab Shadow Over Water and Seven-Shadow Evasion. Or, flip both dots of Melee over to Resistance, and get Spirit Strengthens the Skin and Adamant Skin Technique. Drop the 1st Presence Excellency and pick up the 2nd Presence Excellency. Snake Style is good, so that's not a problem.

Naria: Drop First Athletics Excellency and Lightning Speed. Get Shadow Over Water and Seven-Shadow Evasion. Drop the 1st Stealth Excellency, and get the 3rd one. Drop the First Dodge Excellency, and if you want to keep an Excellency, move it to the 2nd version. If not, pick up something cool, like Trance of Unhesitating Speed. Also, I personally would drop Phantom Arrow Technique and Righteous Judgment Arrow, and pick up something like There Is No Wind and Accuracy Without Distance, but that's more of a personal taste thing. If you do end up getting ToUS, TISNW, and AWD, I love the Combo you can make with those. Also maybe do the Connections->Artifact trade, getting her a short powerbow, but that's not strictly necessary.

Rinan: Shift a couple of dots from things over to Dodge (I'd suggest Presence and Martial Arts). Drop 1st Dodge Excellency and 1st Presence. Get Shadow Over Water and Seven-Shadow Evasion. The Eye and the Mouth is a travesty against existence. Hand him the Big Book of Sorcery and tell him to pick something cool.

Also, at minimum, give three extra BP to each of them (at maximum, rewrite the entire sheets in-line with the new character creation).

I'd skip getting a perfect attack. From what I've seen they're generally incredibly inefficient with regards to mote/willpower cost, and perfect defenses block them. Plus, against the things you want to use them against, you'll probably need a perfect defense against their attacks, so you'll need to have a combo made.

Perfect attacks are cool, but definitely not optimal.

So...a few to several hours?

The Games are left so deliberately vague that it's impossible to tell any specifics about their actual mechanisms, besides that they are in fact, a game. So, whatever works for the story.

[tonberrian]

He could, however, have "Investation 5 (Finding Adamant castes +3)" for the cheap cost of one charm and three submodules.

But that is a total waste of a specialty.

Because Adamant Castes don't exist.

[a_humble_lich]

But that is a total waste of a specialty.

Because Adamant Castes don't exist.

I see. So the Adamant Castes are just a fairy tale, like the White Veil Society? (Which also totally doesn't exist.)

[Lix Lorn]

Where can I read about Kes? He sounds EPIC, and I want to read up myself.

[Qaera]

Where can I read about Kes? He sounds EPIC, and I want to read up myself.

DBs, Scroll of Exalts, RotSE.

[Tavar]

Why not just take +3 specialty in finding secret societies? Or in conspiracies? That should work.

[Yuki Akuma]

Why not just take +3 specialty in finding secret societies? Or in conspiracies? That should work.

Because "Finding Adamant Castes +3" is funnier.

[jindra34]

Why not just take +3 specialty in finding secret societies? Or in conspiracies? That should work.

Not sure either of those works because Adamants really aren't a secret group as a whole, they are more just secret. Of course there should still be a couple of specialties that find them, like "Finding not things" or some such.

[ShadowFighter15]

Yeah, you would need to do a bit of modifying.

Also, I just looked over RttTotFC (aaaargh), and by the light of Luna those are some unoptimized characters. Not necessarily unsurvivable, but they'll probably run into some problems as is. Here is some entirely unsolicited advice about how I'd change them.

Spoiler

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Kade: Drop the Ox-Body and the 1st Lore Excellency, and grab Bulwark Stance and Heavenly Guardian Defense. Drop 1st Integrity Excellency and get the 2nd Integrity Excellency. Drop 1st Ride Excellency and get the 3rd Ride Excellency. Drop the two dots of Connections which you can pick up as easily as blinking in the course of the game, and get the man a daiklave for Sol's sake.

Morning Breeze: Drop One Weapon, Two Blows and the Ox-Body. Flip a dot of Melee over to Dodge. Grab Shadow Over Water and Seven-Shadow Evasion. Or, flip both dots of Melee over to Resistance, and get Spirit Strengthens the Skin and Adamant Skin Technique. Drop the 1st Presence Excellency and pick up the 2nd Presence Excellency. Snake Style is good, so that's not a problem.

Naria: Drop First Athletics Excellency and Lightning Speed. Get Shadow Over Water and Seven-Shadow Evasion. Drop the 1st Stealth Excellency, and get the 3rd one. Drop the First Dodge Excellency, and if you want to keep an Excellency, move it to the 2nd version. If not, pick up something cool, like Trance of Unhesitating Speed. Also, I personally would drop Phantom Arrow Technique and Righteous Judgment Arrow, and pick up something like There Is No Wind and Accuracy Without Distance, but that's more of a personal taste thing. If you do end up getting ToUS, TISNW, and AWD, I love the Combo you can make with those. Also maybe do the Connections->Artifact trade, getting her a short powerbow, but that's not strictly necessary.

Rinan: Shift a couple of dots from things over to Dodge (I'd suggest Presence and Martial Arts). Drop 1st Dodge Excellency and 1st Presence. Get Shadow Over Water and Seven-Shadow Evasion. The Eye and the Mouth is a travesty against existence. Hand him the Big Book of Sorcery and tell him to pick something cool.

Also, at minimum, give three extra BP to each of them (at maximum, rewrite the entire sheets in-line with the new character creation).

There's a reason none of them have artifacts - the first four parts of the Tomb of Five Corners they visit are their previous incarnations tombs (I mentioned this a few posts ago) and they each get an artifact from the long-dead remains of their previous selves. As I said a few posts ago - Kade gets a reaver daiklave, Breeze gets an orichalcum seven-section staff, Naria gets a short powerbow and Rinan gets a pair of hearthstone bracers.

Also, the toughest enemy in the book is a Moonshadow Abyssal who has a soulsteel reaper daiklave and lacks both a perfect attack and a perfect defence. Most of the enemies they'll be fighting'll be zombies in one form or another and I wasn't planning on expanding this beyond a one-shot adventure to show these guys what Exalted's like. I may get some ideas and then expand, but at this stage, I'm assuming the end of the module is the end of the game.

If you still think they need those changes, let me know, but I'm reluctant to screw with their backgrounds when you read their backstories as well as what they've done just before the adventure begins. So, for instance, you can't ditch Kade's followers since the circle's just come from defeating an entire bandit army. Exalts or no, they're newbies to the supernatural beatdown and Kade is supposed to be the leader of a mercenary company.

EDIT: Oh, and the extra BP won't be necessary - I remade each of them in Anathema with the revised character creation rules and all of them bar one had spent more than the original 15BP. Rinan's spent 17BP, for instance. Some of that might've been from the changed costs of various things (Charms, Virtues, etc) but I've already remade their sheets exactly from the book but using the newer creation rules.

Oh, and there is one point in the adventure - outside the Tomb of the Twilight - where Rinan can use The Eye and the Mouth to get information on what's happened since no-one speaks the language of the area.

Perfect attacks are cool, but definitely not optimal.

I'll keep that in mind, might be able to get him Devastating Ogre Enhancement sooner than I though.

[Lord Raziere]

Hey guys, I got this Combo idea.

I call it "Harmony of Rippling Blood" it uses these three charms:

Harmony of Blows + Rippling Water Strike + Drowning in Blood Technique

My question is, what happens when DiBT deals 1 stamina point, then RWS makes the attack ripple? does it just deal bashing damage as usual, or does it deal 1 stamina to each person in the ripple as well?

[Xefas]

So, in the style of Advice God, Bachelor Frog, Backstage Badger, and so on, I've decided to distill some of Malfeas' supernal wisdom.

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---

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Truly, an inspirational leader.

[Mr.Bookworm]

There's a reason none of them have artifacts - the first four parts of the Tomb of Five Corners they visit are their previous incarnations tombs (I mentioned this a few posts ago) and they each get an artifact from the long-dead remains of their previous selves. As I said a few posts ago - Kade gets a reaver daiklave, Breeze gets an orichalcum seven-section staff, Naria gets a short powerbow and Rinan gets a pair of hearthstone bracers.

Ooooh. I only skimmed the actual adventure part.

If you still think they need those changes, let me know, but I'm reluctant to screw with their backgrounds when you read their backstories as well as what they've done just before the adventure begins. So, for instance, you can't ditch Kade's followers since the circle's just come from defeating an entire bandit army. Exalts or no, they're newbies to the supernatural beatdown and Kade is supposed to be the leader of a mercenary company.

Alright, given that they get artifacts as part of the natural course of the game, the backgrounds are fine, then. I would still highly recommend making the Charm switches I said (which I presume you can do without changing the background), simply because a lot of the decisions in there suck (especially the Excellency choices, which are just plain ineffecient). For example:

Let's take one of the bandits at the start of the adventure. A completely mundane, mortal extra. He attacks Morning Breeze with his sword. She tries to parry with her sword. The bandit rolls 7 dice. He gets extremely lucky, and rolls 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10. Seven successes. She has a Parry DV of 3, and her player does a 2 dice stunt, getting a single success. Effective Parry DV of 4. Raw damage of 10L. She has lethal soak of 1, so, it ends up at 9 post-soak damage. The bandit rolls, and get's lucky again. A 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 7 8, 8, 10. Six damage. Putting her into her final -2 HL. If another bandit gets lucky, she's screwed.

This is a single mortal extra mind you, assuming that you're player makes a singe dumb decision (using Parry DV instead of Dodge DV). If the Mistress got lucky, Breeze would be a splatter on the ground. Perfect defenses are your panic button. Also, since you apparently didn't spend all of the BP, sneak the perfect defense into the Combo, so they can feel free to pop off their flashy special move without leaving themselves wide open.

...though actually, I guess most of my advice boils down to "make sure your players understand the combat engine".

Also, looking at the Mistress, she is actually fairly optimized (certainly not paranoia-level, but she's better then the circle). She does have a perfect defense. Her Combo is also pretty nasty. Though this is tangential to the actual point.

I hope that rambling semi-rant helped.

EDIT: Oh, and the extra BP won't be necessary - I remade each of them in Anathema with the revised character creation rules and all of them bar one had spent more than the original 15BP. Rinan's spent 17BP, for instance. Some of that might've been from the changed costs of various things (Charms, Virtues, etc) but I've already remade their sheets exactly from the book but using the newer creation rules.

Ah, alright.

Oh, and there is one point in the adventure - outside the Tomb of the Twilight - where Rinan can use The Eye and the Mouth to get information on what's happened since no-one speaks the language of the area.

I will hunt down and behead whoever made such a horrible design decision (both the spell and the adventure). I hate things like that with a passion.

I'll keep that in mind, might be able to get him Devastating Ogre Enhancement sooner than I though.

Wait what?

[Lochar]

Bookworm, you do realize that stunt dice are added directly to DVs, not rolled, right?

[Turalisj]

A bit of confusion on my part- can a dragon-blood who goes the immaculate monk part grab the style charms right away?