General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

[Tavar]

Quick question; for the Diaklave of battle, it imposes a -1 penalty on all combat actions as long as you're an enemy within 1 mile. If you're within 10 yards, it forces a valor check, and if you succeed it gives you -[users valor] to attacks. Do these two effects stack with one another?

[golentan]

AM I MARDVKTH?

He's one of the neverborn now, right? He Who Holds In Thrall, unless I'm completely misremembering. I have this mental image of his last words being that, and a solar running him through and saying "No, you're dead."

[Yuki Akuma]

So I've got a question for you folks about the differences between the various Perfect Defenses (at least the Solar ones, I'm not familiar with other Exalt types yet to figure theirs out.)

Basically, as far as I'm aware for the PD's that have flaws of Invulnerability (to be specific) is that there are the 3 basic ones. SSE - Perfect Dodge, AST - Perfect Soak, HGD - Perfect Parry.

So there's some basic differences between at least HGD and the other two, namely that with HGD you need to be armed, and if you're armed with a non-artifact weapon, and the parry soaks up more than 25 damage in one attack, the weapon breaks.

Beyond that, I've heard people say that AST is the only PD that can protect an Exalt from falling damage - I'm curious, is this actually spelled out anywhere? It seems very Exalted to me to picture an armed Solar fall off an airship (to use the typical example) only to parry or dodge the ground.
So is it actually stated anywhere in the rules that this would not work? Or are we just going by common sense here? (A dangerous exercise in the Exalted universe.)

Also, it seems to me that there are certain weaknesses to AST? For instance, if a Solar Hero Style user were to strike someone using AST with a Heaven Thunder Hammer, would the AST user still get thrown backwards? It seems to me that someone using SSE or HGD wouldn't have to worry about it, as the attack wouldn't have connected in the first place.

Also, it seems that someone using SSE without any of its upgrade charms might not be able to use SSE versus area-of-effect attacks?

Anyways, yeah. Perfect Defenses - not actually so perfect?

AST defends against falling damage while SSE and HGD don't because falling damage is not an attack.

AST isn't good against "bad touch" effects - if a hit causes your soul to fall off, it doesn't matter if you soak the damage, your soul's falling off.

[Xefas]

There's a very good rant by Holden somewhere around here that points out why Cthulhu and his ilk do not make very good Exalted villains.

Which is also just his opinion, and no one has to actually listen to it, I might add.

[Gensh]

Anyway, even if that was the way they went, Oramus has absolutely nothing in common with Azathoth, besides both being eldritch abominations. The King of the Primordials was much more like Azathoth, if Azathoth wasn't a drooling moron. Oramus is a lot closer to Yog-Sothoth, though the match isn't even close to perfect.

It's the blind idiot god aspect I see there. As of Infernals, a good deal of the Primordials are remarked as having relatively human thought processes, though I use the term "relatively" lightly. Oramus continues to just get off with descriptions of "this guy is so crazy we can't tell you about it." He represents the Beyond like Azathoth is the nuclear chaos. While that sounds similar to Empyreal Chaos, especially if you go into the roots of the term "empyrean," the Holy Tyrant seems to be designed as a demiurge expy: pitiable because he honestly tried his best, but ultimately one against whom a great deal of aggression can be directed with impunity since he's merely a fraudulent king. It also mentions that Oramus' sorcerers can probably learn necromancy, perhaps a hint at the Necronomicon. Besides, for what it's worth, Sacheverell seems much closer to Yog-Sothoth, what with the comparison of a perfect view of Samsara compared to eternal omnipresence.

You are keeping in mind the taint, right? That should be one of the cores of any Autochthon charmset.

Of course. That was actually part of why I wanted to write it.

So much so that even his sorcerous initiation is tainted, and most of the charms include clauses that worsen the sickness with fetich death.

You're talking about the fan writeup on the wiki, yes? I actually checked all the ones there before making my "LIST OF THINGS I HAVE TO HOMEBREW," but I didn't like anything other than the Excellency. It was too focused on artifacts, a narrow specialization fit for Solars, but not for the literal embodiment of craftsmen. Then there's the issue of that new keyword. While yeah, Auto-kun's sickness is a big deal, nobody really wants to take a bunch of Charms that inflict penalties, and then you're stuck with the situation of any player who takes Auto-kun's Charms also getting Swillin's Charms in order to ignore the disease or whatever, defeating the point of having it in the first place.

If you weren't talking about the writeup on the wiki, now you've got more insight into the design process anyway. More seriously, I'm intending to make it a subtle thing at first that gradually starts to infest the higher end of most of the Charm trees, with there also being a plain Void Charm tree or two. Since fetich death doesn't apply to an Exalt, I'd keep the number of side-effects within the Charms to a minimum and just state in Auto-kun's writeup that Ku is right and he's actually progressing towards the Void deliberately. After all, Primordials can't kill each other, so why would Auto-kun's sickness do more than inflict fetich death?

[Qaera]

Cthulhu isn't BAMF enough for Exalted, IMO.

[Xefas]

Cthulhu isn't BAMF enough for Exalted, IMO.

He could easily be a Second Circle Demon.

[Qaera]

First Circle Cthulhoids might be cool, though.

[Gensh]

First Circle Cthulhoids might be cool, though.

Boats inflict aggravated damage.

[Xefas]

First Circle Cthulhoids might be cool, though.

He just produces tiny Chibithulhus via budding. Because of their lack of teeth, and decidedly small proportioned bodies in comparison to their heads, Demonologists often summon them to be very angry, though completely harmless pets. Their incomprehensibility is toned down from the real Cthulhu. Instead of causing madness, looking at them just gets you a little high.

[golentan]

Boats inflict aggravated damage.

Also, they spend 2 ages asleep for every 3 ages they survive.

I personally would fluff Cthulhu as a Hekatonkhire. Dead but dreaming, focused entirely on the day that even death may die and he'll rise again, so on and so forth.

Also, found the charm I was looking for a few pages back. Thanks for helping everyone.

[Incendius]

You're talking about the fan writeup on the wiki, yes? I actually checked all the ones there before making my "LIST OF THINGS I HAVE TO HOMEBREW," but I didn't like anything other than the Excellency. It was too focused on artifacts, a narrow specialization fit for Solars, but not for the literal embodiment of craftsmen. Then there's the issue of that new keyword. While yeah, Auto-kun's sickness is a big deal, nobody really wants to take a bunch of Charms that inflict penalties, and then you're stuck with the situation of any player who takes Auto-kun's Charms also getting Swillin's Charms in order to ignore the disease or whatever, defeating the point of having it in the first place.

If you weren't talking about the writeup on the wiki, now you've got more insight into the design process anyway. More seriously, I'm intending to make it a subtle thing at first that gradually starts to infest the higher end of most of the Charm trees, with there also being a plain Void Charm tree or two. Since fetich death doesn't apply to an Exalt, I'd keep the number of side-effects within the Charms to a minimum and just state in Auto-kun's writeup that Ku is right and he's actually progressing towards the Void deliberately. After all, Primordials can't kill each other, so why would Auto-kun's sickness do more than inflict fetich death?

I'm not actually talking about the fan homebrew, I'm talking about quotes from the writers of the line on the White Wolf forums. I don't have them at hand but they've talked about this before. They pointed at the only way to get sorcery in Autocthonia for example: void tech.

They have said that even his Excellency is tainted. Autochthon's sickness isn't actually a sickness, it is a metaphysical weakness coded into his very being that simultaneously makes him the weakest Primordial, but also the strongest. His weakness allows him to innovate and create new things, because he must to survive. He is Primordial, but he understands what death is, and is that much closer to humanity for it. His sickness cripples him but also allows him to go beyond the limitations of even the Primordials.

The Daystar was built upon an invention of his make, and thus even though Malfeas made it and The Unconquered Sun, they both ultimately originate from Autochthon. He created Exaltation, a force that killed the titans that defined existence itself. He is unsurpassed in the act of making, because he must to survive, and if that need to innovate to survive was removed he would no longer be even remotely the same.

[senrath]

I'm pretty sure that only one of the writers said that, and it was one known for good crunch but horrifically bad fluff.

[Incendius]

I'm pretty sure that only one of the writers said that, and it was one known for good crunch but horrifically bad fluff.

You think Holden has bad fluff?

[senrath]

Holden wasn't the one who said that, I don't think.

[tonberrian]

Holden wasn't the one who said that, I don't think.

You think Neph has bad fluff?

[senrath]

In this case? Yes. I don't think that a Primordial's charms should have any real impact on a Primordial's next incarnation. I also dislike the fact that he said "Yeah, there's zero way of ever removing the sickness from him and it just gets worse if you try."

[Turalisj]

In this case? Yes. I don't think that a Primordial's charms should have any real impact on a Primordial's next incarnation. I also dislike the fact that he said "Yeah, there's zero way of ever removing the sickness from him and it just gets worse if you try."

That goes contrary to the set rules of how a Primordial reincarnates as well as the idea that, in Exalted, nothing is truly eternal. You can have something that can survive for thousand of years, but there's always a way to destroy/change it to something else.

[Tavar]

I dislike that, though there's also been some developers that have said different things. For instance, I believe one has said that, while it's tied into his excellency, it can be removed. Just, in order to do so you need to do stuff like Feitch death, and in that case, yes, you're going to get something completely different. And, even with such drastic measures, you need to be careful. An uncontrolled FD could as easily make things worse as make things better.

[Incendius]

Holden wasn't the one who said that, I don't think.

I thought it was, but I can't find it so I won't claim either way.



Edit: The thing that you guys are missing is that there already is a cure for Autochthon's sickness. He has had it in remission for millions of years. It is the worst it has ever been right now, but it is not yet doom for him, and if he wakes up it probably won't ever be.

[Gensh]

If someone has a link to the quote I'd be grateful, but in the meantime, I've posted my version of Autobot's Excellency and Mythos Exultant. They're both a bit...unorthodox, but I didn't have Alchemicals on hand at the time and was going off the notion "Swillin=Clockwork; Auto-kun=Legos" since I did remember Infernals saying that. I'd appreciate your opinions on those before I start organizing Charm trees, though.

[senrath]

I thought it was, but I can't find it so I won't claim either way.



Edit: The thing that you guys are missing is that there already is a cure for Autochthon's sickness. He has had it in remission for millions of years. It is the worst it has ever been right now, but it is not yet doom for him, and if he wakes up it probably won't ever be.

No, there is a treatment. That is far different from a cure.

[Tavar]

That's not a cure. If he was cured, the disease wouldn't be an issue. There's a treatment, which had him in remission for some time. However, by now, he's back into disease-land full swing.

[Incendius]

That's not a cure. If he was cured, the disease wouldn't be an issue. There's a treatment, which had him in remission for some time. However, by now, he's back into disease-land full swing.

All right, technically no its not a cure, but effectively all one needs to do is treat his symptoms and wake him up and the disease is not a problem.

My point is, there is no need for there to be a cure because this problem isn't one of those things that should be "fixed". For example the idea about Fetich Death worsening the issue. Yes Fetich Death changes a Primordial, but that Primordial is still recognizable compared to what it was before. Adorjan used to be Adrian, but both are flowing constantly moving bodies that delight in slaughter. The Empyreal Chaos became Malfeas, but both are still rulers, and the Green Sun at the heart of the Empyreal Chaos still exists as Ligier.

All the other Primordials hated and were afraid of Autochthon because he was unique, in that he had mortality. It was what made him Autochthon, just as much as Szoreny was defined by reflecting others, or Qaf was defined by reaching for perfection. It is very thematic for a primordial to remain consistent in their core ideals between incarnations.

[Tavar]

Malfeas is a bit of a special case, as only one of his Fetich was killed. Yes, he actually had 2 of them, which was part of his power. This has also been called out as a reason for the continuity between incarnation; he still has something of his old self to hold onto. Can't really comment on the other, except that I've always heard it said to be a rather dramatic shift.

And, well, it's not quite that simple. We know that Autochton can halt the progress of the disease. But can he reverse it? I don't think so. And considering his condition currently, that's not a good thing.

[golentan]

I generally agree, but on the other hand I think that Autobot is in a worse situation than that implies. If he wakes up, his paranoia forces him to choose between going back to creation with no good way of knowing if he'll be killed seconds after setting foot down there, killing everyone living in him for the extra fuel, and starving to death in elsewhere because he's running too hot and needs the repairs. I don't know about you, but I see a genocide in autocthonia's future in such a circumstance.

[Turalisj]

Malfeas is a bit of a special case, as only one of his Fetich was killed. Yes, he actually had 2 of them, which was part of his power. This has also been called out as a reason for the continuity between incarnation; he still has something of his old self to hold onto. Can't really comment on the other, except that I've always heard it said to be a rather dramatic shift.

And, well, it's not quite that simple. We know that Autochton can halt the progress of the disease. But can he reverse it? I don't think so. And considering his condition currently, that's not a good thing.

That's because the other Fetich Soul of Malfeas was Duke Nukem.

[Gensh]

I generally agree, but on the other hand I think that Autobot is in a worse situation than that implies. If he wakes up, his paranoia forces him to choose between going back to creation with no good way of knowing if he'll be killed seconds after setting foot down there, killing everyone living in him for the extra fuel, and starving to death in elsewhere because he's running too hot and needs the repairs. I don't know about you, but I see a genocide in autocthonia's future in such a circumstance.

Eh. I think he'd be either curious enough or desperate enough to see what things looked like in Creation after seeing how even his own souls ran things into the ground. With the way things are decaying, I don't think he'd mind having to put up with some Twilights poking around in his innards, insane or not.

[Xefas]

Over at the White Wolf forums, there was a brief fad of threads to the effect of "Ask my Exalted character a question, and I'll answer completely in-character from their perspective, and in doing so, hopefully I'll learn a bit about them by having to think like them, and everyone else will get a bit of lulz." (I think it was started by Hatewheel's "Ask The Magnus")

Would anyone here find a thread like that interesting/useful? Hopefully a single thread that would host the character for multiple posters, as for that brief time, it was annoying to look at the Exalted forum and have half the first page be "Ask Immaculate Steve", "Ask Glorious Bob", "Ask Radiant Jim" and so on.

[golentan]

It's possible, but he isn't quite as nice as he's sometimes made out to be IMO. I think he might choose to forestall his return as long as possible just in case, given some of his past actions. And he's got several million Pos still untapped he could use for that purpose. But, as with most such things, it's open to interpretation.