General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

[Turalisj]

Heh....

A 10 successes dish, one that could make FaFL weep.

[DragonSinged]

Oh great Meschlum! I have need of your assistance regarding the Fair Folk!

*Makes prayer roll.*

So, there is another player in an Exalted game I'm playing in. She's an Eclipse, and she's got an opportunity to learn some charms from some Fair Folks. Problem is, we don't know that much about what charms would really be worth it for a Solar to learn, or what she could just do better with Solar charms. As we understand, the point isn't to learn stronger charms from Fair Folk, just different.

Little about her character:

Ferocious Haiku is an Eclipse Caste Solar. She has 5 ranks in Martial arts as her combat ability, though she doesn't have much in the way of MA charms yet. She has a pair of Orichalcum Gauntlets of Distant Claws (Oadenal's, P. 37), and is planning on learning Water Dragon Style eventually.
She has a smattering of Bureaucracy, Linguistics, and Socialize charms, as well as some resistance. She's also learned Fire Bending Affinity (Fire) Control from a community of Godbloods we made friends with.

So anyways, yeah, she's got this Fair Folk who's willing to hook her up with some Fair Folk charms, either teaching them himself, or getting other Fair Folk to teach her (as well as set her up with the requisite graces? Still hammering out the details on how that works), so what would you say would possibly be useful for an Eclipse to actually learn?

I appreciate very much any help & suggestions!

EDIT:

A few more details, about location.

So far the game has been mainly taking place in the East, and we haven't run into much more than a Wyld pocket here and there, so it is not an especially Wyld-heavy game so far. There is a chance (as the party is looking for a way to learn the Shadowland-clearing spell) that the party might head towards Sperimin eventually, which I believe is at least in the Bordermarches, but so far we're steering clear of there, and are heading towards Sal-Menoth.

[TheCountAlucard]

Not meschlum, but I'll provide what advice I can...

For the most part, you really don't want to learn very many Fair Folk Charms; if you can, you should instead use grace artifacts. They allow you to do much of the same, albeit for much less of a cost. In fact, there are only a few Fair Folk Charms that can't be tied up into artifacts.

It also depends on what she's trying to get them for.

[meschlum]

I wrote a quasi-guide to the changes brought on by errata to the Fair Folk charms over in the Exalted forums. Since you're spending time mainly in Creation, it might be useful. See here for details.


On to practical matters.

In order to use Fair Folk Charms, you need a Grace to be made for you (or more). This has lots of benefits, and a few minor disadvantages that will certainly never rise up to stab such a paragon of excellence as an Eclipse in the back.

Once your Grace exists (and never fear, the Fair Folk who made it for you will guard it loyally), you can learn charms of the appropriate type. Sadly, your start with a Grace rating of 1, so your options are a bit limited.

On the plus side, you can now use Grace Magic (possibly only of the relevant type - making Ring rather pointless), and that opens up a lot of options. Again, different forum, but this may give you (excessive) guidelines.


Cheap Fair Folk Charms and You

Many charms require gossamer, which (not being a Fair Folk) you may have some trouble collecting.

Ravishing the Created Form works, if you want to wander about and eat the souls of your consenting vict... allies.

Worker's Gift gives you a little gossamer each time you gain Willpower for moving towards your Motivation.

Otherwise, you're going to depend on Fair Folk giving you the stuff. They can collect it easily (and even, if pressed, without eating people's souls), so stay on their good side.

Martial Arts

Surpassing Excellence gives you a +2 die specialization that stacks with existing specialties. A way to boost your numbers a bit further.

Armament of Flesh lets you add (Essence) to an unarmed attack, with a maximum of +4 to any trait. Rate, Accuracy, Defense... all are possible. Plus, parry lethal safely.

Hundred Hand Style enhances the Rate of all your natural weapons by 2 (except clinches).

Long Arm Technique lets you spend gossamer to increase your Reach (by yards) and movement speed. It also always gives you the Reach tag, which can be nice.

Racing Dragon Speed boosts your movement speeds by 5 yards, and stacks if you buy it more often (requires high Sword).

Knife Hand Dream lets you parry lethal attacks safely, and (at higher Essence), adds 5 damage your natural attacks, or makes it Aggravated. The last two effects cost gossamer, but it's a useful charm in getting...

Opalescent Gossamer Raiment, which gives you an extra (Essence + 3) lethal and bashing natural soak, and is free and always on. Not quite Iron Skin Concentration, but it helps. The next charms in the tree give Aggravated soak (Essence, also always on), then double them (so 2*Essence + 6 B/L and 2* Essence A) - but require higher Ring scores.

Swift Wings of Song is hard to get (high Cup, deep in the Charm tree). However, it can be obtained as Grace Magic, and automatic successes to Join Battle are always nice. At a minimum, 6 motes for 3 successes, and the efficiency goes up with Cup.

Overriding Construct of Fate requires one charm (Subversion and Transformation Artifice - which lets you mutate animals) and gives you a 6 mote supplemental power adding Knockback to any attack. At least 6 yards, going up to 24+ at Essence 4, and one mile at Essence 6! Not that powerful due to costs, but fun to contemplate. It also requires a slight boost to Cup. That said, an Eclipse with the power to turn mice into giant animals with Cheetah Pace is entertaining, and that's what Subversion and Transformation Artifice is for!

Heart Stealing Kiss is another expensive charm, but it gives you a 1/scene Bad Touch attack that will consume the virtue (or permanent Willpower!) of a foe, and regain motes that way. The effect wears off after a few days, but in the meantime your opponent is in trouble. Requires high Cup.

Gossamer Wing Flight lets you fly. Without wings, carried by the radiance of your essence banner if you like. You can take it as soon as you have a Sword Grace.

Elusive Object of Desire requires extra Cup, but gives you automatic successes to get out of clinches and other forms of imprisonment. It's 6 motes for (Cup) successes, so it's better than an Excellency at Cup 4+ - and since it can be used to escape manacles as well as clinches, it's more versatile.

Aegis of a Martial Destiny: Take this. Really. It costs exactly nothing (at most 1 mote per day, not committed), and gives you 1 automatic success to all actions you take towards fulfilling a great goal you have an Intimacy for. How is this not awesome?


Social Fun

For this, you want Cup. Really. Some staff can be entertaining as well, but Cup is a solid starting point. Oneiromancies can do a lot of the work here, and allow access to charms that would otherwise cost too much.

Surpassing Excellence is always good, even if it requires a Sword Grace.

Heart Cutting Style is horribly expensive, and lets you ignore the Appearance cap on MDV. You're not going to use it in social conflict because of the cost and because you're limited to a mere mortal Appearance of 5 (so it's only good against App 1 foes). But you need it for the next Charms, and it's always fun to 'charge' a letter with your massive Linguistics.

Untouchable Performer Technique makes you permanently immune to all attempts at UMI aimed at making people hate you. How is this not good? It does require investing in Cup, though (which has its own benefits - see Swift Wings of Song, Elusive Object of Desire, etc.)

Dissonance of Principles is cheap, and inflicts long lasting internal penalties to your foes social attacks. Also requires high Cup.

The Addiction charms are neat, ensuring you have 'friends' everywhere. Eventually, they enable telepathy with your 'friends' - such as your circle mates. They are expensive, however.

Adored by All the World is sort of expensive to get, but means you'll have Allies and Followers anywhere. Similarly, The Naming of Secrets gives you Contacts, and Unlimited Resplendence provides Backing, Influence, and Resources. All depend on Cup, all let you fit into any society you meet with minimal effort. All can be taken as Oneiromancies, ensuring you have the powers on hand constantly at a minimal cost in committed motes (and no Cup requirements).

Ordinary Object Conjuration gives you insane wealth (diamonds the size of your head), which is useful for bribery purposes. Requires extra Cup, or an Oneiromancy / Adjuration.

Beguilement costs far too much (and is Staff, not Cup). Take it as an Oneiromancy for a fraction (1/4) of the price, and have always on UMI costing extra willpower to resist!

Brilliant Glinting Lure is far too expensive to get as a Charm, but as an Adjuration it ensures that you make people love you in a single scene, rather than need to build up towards their Conviction. For 2 committed motes.


Oneiromantic Madness

Now that you have a Grace and Fair Folk f(r)iends, you can rewrite entire small nations so they'll worship you. Then take a second bite out of your sandwich, and turn all assassins out to get you into cute mice to feed your cats as you sip from your glass of water.

The Land of Love and Madness

When the spell forming this land is invoked, it enlightens the minds of all within reach so that they may discover the Truth: the owner of the spell is the most perfect being inside Creation (and out of it), and deserves anything and everything they ask for. Should anyone doubt this utterly obvious fact or, worse, not do their utmost to satisfy every request of the spell's owner, they will be torn to shreds by the berserk populace - which takes on frightful, cat-like features to do so.

4-dot Oneiromancy

Assumption of the Living Kingdom (drop it to 3 dots to only own a city, or 2 for a village).

Behemoth Forging Meditation - all mortals in range develop the Derangement (Abject and Utter Love and Trust for the spell owner), stacked as high as it will go. Past Essence 3 (Abomination), add things to improve their aesthetics (make them all male and allergic to shirts, for instance). Range is ~100,000 people, so enjoy.
As an alternative, use Emotion Weaving Style to just rewrite all their Motivations. That said, BFM is more fun as it lets you upgrade your devoted followers, and makes them far more irrational.

Manacles of Virtue - anyone defending you gets a massive boost to Valor.

Bestial Transformation - anyone angered at an unbeliever is turned into a cat-like shredding beast. Start with 6 points worth of mutations at Essence 3, and go on from there.

The Vengeful Beach Sorceress

A beautiful figure, the Sorceress is known to spend time with the Raksha she most approves of, feeding them delicious dishes made by encasing foodstuffs in two slices of bread. When outsiders interrupt and rudely attempt to slay her owner, she retaliates viciously, turning them into insignificant creatures and warping the land itself. If she is ever called a 'sand witch', she will also strike with all the fury she possesses.

1-dot Oneiromancy

Assumption of Dreams and Passion (or Earth Form) - a somewhat stereotypical beach babe.

Bestial Transformation - anyone attacking the spell's owner is turned into a lame mouse (size penalties, movement penalties, etc.)

World Angering Earth Mastery - the ground shakes and moves under the feet of those trying to harm the spell's owner, giving them penalties to attack. The penalty is (Essence), and becomes external at Essence 4+

Ordinary Object Conjuration - snacks, drinks, mustard and mayo.

The Calling Card

A blank sheet of paper, this item is warped by Wyld energies and takes on the aspect of any required documentation. Those seeing it will become utterly convinced that its bearer has the full authority it represents, thus ensuring perfect service just about anywhere.

1-dot Oneiromancy

Assumption of Dreams and Passion - exactly the badge / ID / permit that will convince you it's valid.

Adored by All the World - can be used to requisition any number of Followers, or prove to your prospective Allies that you're on orders from their boss - and they are now working for you.

The Naming of Secrets - when you inspect it, you'll find a list of trustworthy Contacts. When they see it, they'll know you deserve all the best data they can get.

Unlimited Resplendence - the Card lets you requisition any Resources you need, get the Backing of any organization as you have all the proper documentation for doing so, and spread your word as far you wish thanks to its Influence.

Fall of Night Shadows the Truth - you can flash the Card in front of the eyes of someone to blank their memory of you for the last two minutes - and the next two minutes as well. This is most helpful when you need to perform less than legal deeds.

Ze Wrath of ze Baguette

A Raksha particularly obsessed with combat and fine cuisine (including such delicacies as snails, wines, frog legs, and weaponized cheeses) defeated one of its more persistent Fair Folk foes (who was attached to poor plumbing, boiled cabbage, and sailing). Turning that poor (non) soul and its retinue into a potent arsenal, the Raksha then surrendered them all to Creation.

(A bunch of 1-dot Adjurations and a 2-dot Adjuration, granting lots of stuff)

Surpassing Excellence - Martial Arts while insulting the British (especially if they do not exist in your Creation), and gain +2 dice to attack, +1 parry DV.
Surpassing Excellence - +1 to dodge DV for dodging with an accent.
Hundred Hand Style - +2 to rate for all natural weapons
Armament of Flesh - +Essence to Accuracy with fists (max +4, then start boosting Rate or Damage)
Armament of Flesh - +Essence to Defense with mustache, which can now be used as a natural weapon. (max +4)
Knife Hand Dream - at Essence 3+, +5 to damage (Aggravated at Essence 5+).
Opalescent Gossamer Raiment - +(Essence + 3) to natural lethal / bashing soak.
Blade-Turning Skin - +Essence Aggravated Soak
Swift Wings of Song - +Cup automatic successes to Join Battle
Imposition of Law - Martial Arts while mocking people a second time.

Total cost is 9 committed motes, for:

Accuracy: +2 +Essence (max +6)
Defense: +2 +Essence (max +6)
Damage: +5 at Essence 3, A at Essence 5 (possibly more damage at Essence 5 as well)
Rate +2 (possibly more at Essence 5)
Soak: +3 +Essence B / L, +Essence A
Join Battle: + Cup automatic successes (from charm)
Block lethal attacks safely
Always succeed at Martial Arts (includes parries), unless opposed by a stunt of Charm.

[meschlum]

And on a completely related topic:

This. Feel free to apply.

[DragonSinged]

Wow, that is way more than I was expecting. That's pretty awesome, thank you very much! It will certainly get use from us.
The Eclipse said to say that she is your friend now.

[ShadowFighter15]

Something just occured to me about the final boss of Return to the Tomb of Five Corners. The Moonshadow Abyssal has Crypt Bolt in her list of Charms, but she doesn't have enough dots in Thrown to learn it. More specifically, she has no dots in Thrown. Or Archery, incidentally (which strikes me as being the more appropriate ability for firing a bolt of energy).

Now, I was originally thinking just to ignore it or give her enough dots to learn it, but then I considered what would happen if the players I'm going to be taking through 5Corners wanted to continue with the pre-made characters? Obviously, I'd want to bring the Moonshadow back if she survived their encounter (well, I could bring her back as a ghost if she doesn't, but that's another story entirely) but I didn't want to keep fudging things by giving her free ability dots.

Then it occured to me, why not have her daiklave be firing the bolts? Or at least give her the ability to do so? Perhaps the reaper daiklave can launch Crypt Bolts at its wielder's command, either keyed off her Melee ability or letting the wielder count as having three dots in Thrown, but only for the bolts from the sword? How does this sound?

[MickJay]

Isn't the prerequisite of Crypt Bolt Lore? I haven't played Abyssals, but there's the Elemental Bolt (dragon bloods), under Lore. 1m/2L, up to Sta motes, aimed with dex+archery or dex+athletics, plus elemental effect appropriate to the Aspect.

Edit: exalted wiki says yes. In fact, the charm is very similar to the Terrestrial one: http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/i...rms:Crypt_Bolt

[Volthawk]

Isn't the prerequisite of Crypt Bolt Lore? I haven't played Abyssals, but there's the Elemental Bolt (dragon bloods), under Lore. 1m/2L, up to Sta motes, aimed with dex+archery or dex+athletics, plus elemental effect appropriate to the Aspect.

Edit: exalted wiki says yes. In fact, the charm is very similar to the Terrestrial one: http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/i...rms:Crypt_Bolt

Well, the wiki's wrong. It's a Thrown charm, page 134. Hell, 191, where it says the charm is, is one of the comic things that separate the chapters.

[MickJay]

Different edition perhaps? That would explain it why the statline in the module doesn't have Thrown (and I'm willing to bet that that character does have at least two dots in Lore).

[Qaera]

It seems to be an artifact (read: leftover copypasta) from the Abyssals 1e. Because the similar charm in question is in fact Terrestrial, unless the Abyssal in question is Moonshadow Caste, then it doesn't make sense for them to have it.

I don't know much about Abyssals so I don't know if that's one of their charms that they get.

[ShadowFighter15]

Yeah, I'd already checked the wiki about that (mainly to find the page in the book it was on - faster than trying to flip through the book). Seems it was renamed to Crypt Bolt Attack for 2e (hence why just searching "Crypt Bolt" on the wiki brought up the 1e version).

She does have two dots in Lore, so I think it was just the statblock writer getting confused between first and second edition (although MoEP - Abyssals may not've been written til after 5Corners was released).

Either way, I don't want to just slap on four dots of Thrown so that she can know the Charm normally, plus I want to try and show that not all daiklaves are the same (for ages I had the impression that any form of daiklave was just a sword made from one of the magical materials, despite Keychain of Creation - the comic that got me into Exalted in the first place - having a soulsteel daiklave that could change shape between a sword and power bow, something that no weapon in the books I'd read could do) and that not all magical abilities an enemy has are from Charms.

[Qaera]

Then make it a function of the Daiklave, for better lootz.

[Kylarra]

Yeah, return to the tomb has a lot of artifact charms because MOEP: Abyssals wasn't written yet.

[Qaera]

Wasn't it made like right after Core, or something? I recall it being one of the earliest 2e publications.

[golentan]

Wasn't it made like right after Core, or something? I recall it being one of the earliest 2e publications.

March 10th, 2006. Released before 2e core by 10 days as a playtest, according to 5 minutes of research.

[Delusion]

Quick question: Do Oneiromancy spells require both motes to use AND to attune to?

[Kyeudo]

For those of you who care, here's an updated copy of my Szoreny Charm set. Thanks for the help in getting it to where it is now.

[ShadowFighter15]

Then make it a function of the Daiklave, for better lootz.

Then it occured to me, why not have her daiklave be firing the bolts? Or at least give her the ability to do so?

That was my original idea, I just need to work out how to work it mechanically in-case they kill her and decide to hang onto her sword. Should I just add another dot to the Artifact rating and say it can fire bolts as though the wielder knew Crypt Bolt Attack? Maybe also let them use either their Melee or Thrown ability for the attacks, whichever is greater?

[Xefas]

I know I've made fun of Abyssals a lot in the past. Words like "emo" and "sissy googly fluffy cheeks woogly woogly pansy cupcakes" may have been thrown around.

But I feel I need to qualify that. There is an entire category of Abyssal that get my badassedness seal of approval. And that would be the Immortal Malevolence Enslavement Abyssals. I think those guys have a pretty good plan, all things considered, and if Malfeas or an enterprising Devil Tiger can't win the setting, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing them triumphant in the end.

Spoiler

Show

[Qaera]

I was going to draw someone kicking them into that pit a la Leonidas, but

[meschlum]

Quick question: Do Oneiromancy spells require both motes to use AND to attune to?

Yes.

The motes for casting can be recovered, though.

Pre-errata, there were four ways for a Fair Folk to use 5-dot Oneiromancy. One of them was vaguely in the intent of the rules.

* The horribly broken: raise Essence to 3 and Artifact to 5, spending 14 of your 15 bp, use Heart Stopping Numinous Power to raise your Essence to 5, pick up the Essence Abundance at Blight level or more from Scroll of Heroes, for a final mote pool of 56 to 66, of which 10 are committed. Commit 15 of your motes to your Oneiromancy, leaving 31 to 41. Spend 30 to cast the spell. Remember to make both Essence Abundance and your Assumption permanent.

As an alternative, just take the Essence Abundance Abomination and Essence 3, leaving you with 46 motes. Exactly what you need to commit to the spell and cast it, if your Assumption is permanent. Realize that you're walking around with 7 points of permanent mutation, requiring Willpower 6+ to exist.

* The legal but outright silly: be a Heroic Worker, raise Essence to 4 with 20 of your 33 bp, get artifact 5 for another 7 bp. Heart Stopping Numinous Power gets you to Essence 6, so you have 50 motes available. Commit 15 for the spell, and you still have 35, so enough to cast it. If you feel outrageous, go to Essence 5 base and *mock* those silly nobles and Exalts who start at Essence 2 while you're operating at Essence 7.

* The expected route: spend 2 bp on Retinue 4, and 4 on Artifact 5. Hand over the maintenance of your spell to one of your Heroic Commoners, who has Essence 2 and can therefore commit the 15 motes. Swear copiously when you realize that you need Essence 3 (and a permanent Assumption) to cast the spell, and that costs exactly one bp more than you have.

* The sneaky option: spend 4 bp on Artifact 5 and 4 more on Birth 5. Create a homunculus with Awakened Dream Manufacture - those critters have Essence 3. Give your homunculus minion Graces of its own, then open its feeding maw so it's a Fair Folk. Commit the motes for your spell, and have the ascended homunculus cast it.


Post-errata, Heart Stopping Numinous Power no longer works that way (which is probably a good thing), so you still have four options.

* Abuse Essence Abundance. This is easier than before, if you can dodge the Scroll of Heroes (I recommend taking Imposition of Law for this).

* Pick up three iterations of Bottomless Dream Gullet (the most you can get as a noble) and Essence 3, for a final mote pool of 45. Exactly what you need to commit to and cast the spell - if your Assumption is permanent. Remember to commit the motes you got from your Gullet, as they are a pain to recover.

* You now have enough bp to go the expected route.

* The sneaky option remains utterly legal. And sneaky.

[ShadowFighter15]

..."sissy googly fluffy cheeks woogly woogly pansy cupcakes" may have been thrown around.

That one may be new.

Just to check, do the changes I said in my last post sound right for a Crypt Bolt-firing reaper daiklave?

Should I just add another dot to the Artifact rating and say it can fire bolts as though the wielder knew Crypt Bolt Attack? Maybe also let them use either their Melee or Thrown ability for the attacks, whichever is greater?

[TheCountAlucard]

Just to check, do the changes I said in my last post sound right for a Crypt Bolt-firing reaper daiklave?

I'd say that it might be wise to up the attunement cost, just to be safe. If the wielder can spam Crypt Bolt Attacks at will, then up the commitment by four, and if you want to wield it with Melee or Thrown, then you might want to up it another 2-4.

But that's just me.

[Lix Lorn]

Also, if it can fire them at any time, it might need a mote cost to use?

[TheCountAlucard]

Also, if it can fire them at any time, it might need a mote cost to use?

Well, I wouldn't go that far; Crypt Bolt Attack costs 4m to use for a scene, hence why I suggested increasing the attunement cost by 4m. But adding a per use mote cost should be in lieu of an increased attunement.

[Qaera]

How about not adding four motes to Attunement, and instead have the option of spending 4m for a scenelong activation of CBA?

[Kylarra]

Well, to be fair, while CBA does give you it for the scene, the original crypt bolt charm outlined in Return, is basically the elemental bolt attack of the DBs, so that would've been mote drain effect. I think a nominal cost to make ranged melee attacks would be fine personally. Keep in mind that Brilliant Solar Bolt or whatever, has a wp upkeep to do it.

[Feriority]

I know that Solars can head into the Underworld and volunteer themselves to become Abyssals, but is there any way for a Solar to become a Green Sun Prince? I know you can become Akuma, but that nasty 'loss of free will' bit seems like a raw deal.

[Xefas]

I know that Solars can head into the Underworld and volunteer themselves to become Abyssals, but is there any way for a Solar to become a Green Sun Prince? I know you can become Akuma, but that nasty 'loss of free will' bit seems like a raw deal.

1) Sort of. It depends on whether you consider "The Solar" to be the Exaltation itself, or the meat puppet that its glory is refracted through. The Exaltation itself? Sure. Absolutely. Immaculate Steve can walk down to Malfeas and say "Turn this Solar Exaltation into a Green Sun Prince Exaltation" and they totally can.

Immaculate Steve, the meat puppet, however, isn't going to survive. Unlike Abyssals, which just involve flipping a switch in the Exaltation (which, as an aside, I still hold to the conspiracy theory that someone built that in on purpose, but I digress), flipping it turn-ways into Yozi Essence Mode is way harder, and no one can actually survive.

But the next guy who inherits your Exaltation will! And because the Yozi don't clean the shards, some of your memory and personality will be stuck inside him, and can even pop out via the Past Lives background. So that's something to look forward to.

2) I don't believe at any part of the process of Akuma-ization does anyone have to tell you that you'll lack free will afterward.