[3.5] The Keeper [Peach, as always]

[Dryad]

Looked again, and as stated in the edit: Liked muchly. :D

[Cipher Stars]

Well thats good. I've gotta head to bed now. Starting to get allergies worked up again... Stupid summer...

[NeoSeraphi]

Hey, I know this is probably going to annoy you but I figured you'd prefer it if I pointed it out gently before someone else got on your case about it. You have the Keeper gaining the ability to cast spells, but you haven't told us which spell list she draws her spells known from, and whether she casts them as divine or arcane spells (It's relevant because of scrolls).

[Cipher Stars]

Conjuration
and
Enchantment.
List doesn't matter as long as within these two. Their bound to magic type rather then a spell list.

[NeoSeraphi]

So basically, they choose spells from all Domain lists, the Cleric, Wizard, Bard, Druid, Wu Jen, Shugenja, Hexblade, Warmage, Duskblade, Paladin, Ranger, Blackguard, Assassin, and etc spell lists. Just as long as they're Conjuration or Enchantment?

[Cipher Stars]

So basically, they choose spells from all Domain lists, the Cleric, Wizard, Bard, Druid, Wu Jen, Shugenja, Hexblade, Warmage, Duskblade, Paladin, Ranger, Blackguard, Assassin, and etc spell lists. Just as long as they're Conjuration or Enchantment?

mm.... Yep.

[Glimbur]

mm.... Yep.

Some spells appear on different spell lists as different level spells. Suggestion, for example, is a third level spell for Wizards and Sorcerers but only second level for Bards. What level spell is it for Keepers? If you want to make them less good at spellcasting than wizards have it default to spells being the same level for Keepers as for Wizards. If it's not a wizard spell, then it could be the same level as it is for clerics. If not clerics, then druids, then bards. And then it's kind of irrelevant, so it could be player's choice unless you want to list every class which casts spells.

[Cipher Stars]

Some spells appear on different spell lists as different level spells. Suggestion, for example, is a third level spell for Wizards and Sorcerers but only second level for Bards. What level spell is it for Keepers? If you want to make them less good at spellcasting than wizards have it default to spells being the same level for Keepers as for Wizards. If it's not a wizard spell, then it could be the same level as it is for clerics. If not clerics, then druids, then bards. And then it's kind of irrelevant, so it could be player's choice unless you want to list every class which casts spells.

They;d take spells at the lowest level they can, So that spell would be taken from the bard list at Spell level two.
I think thats perfectly fair as their just using the two, meanwhile other spell casters can usually blast them with Evocation/Necromancy spells or Harm/Inflict spells.

[Zaydos]

They;d take spells at the lowest level they can, So that spell would be taken from the bard list at Spell level two.
I think thats perfectly fair as their just using the two, meanwhile other spell casters can usually blast them with Evocation/Necromancy spells or Harm/Inflict spells.

Conjuration has the best attack spells in the game which is why Evocation is the most commonly banned school (followed by Illusion, Enchantment, or Necromancy).

[Thrice Dead Cat]

They;d take spells at the lowest level they can, So that spell would be taken from the bard list at Spell level two.
I think thats perfectly fair as their just using the two, meanwhile other spell casters can usually blast them with Evocation/Necromancy spells or Harm/Inflict spells.

No. Considering the precedent for various prestige classes with their own spellcasting giving numerous spells two to three spell levels earlier, this is not a good design choice.

I's always worth noting that, outside of a Cindy styled blaster who one-shots monsters with very specific blasting spells, it is generally easier and more effective to use spells to debuff, buff, or otherwise help your team by controlling the battlefield.

[Cipher Stars]

Conjuration has the best attack spells in the game which is why Evocation is the most commonly banned school (followed by Illusion, Enchantment, or Necromancy).

Isn't Fireballs and Flame Walls and that such Evocation? Wait Flame wall sounds like a conjuration.

[Zaydos]

Isn't Fireballs and Flame Walls and that such Evocation? Wait Flame wall sounds like a conjuration.

They're both Evocation, but 3.X fireball is unlikely to do anything, and without heavy metamagic with metamagic reducers is worse than your spirit companion's at-will attacks. Wall of Fire is very little damage (less than a sword strike most times) even to creatures passing through it.

For good direct damage you go to Metamagic enhanced Orb of X spells (conjuration, ignores SR, save or 1 round of suckage), Cloudkill and the like.

Also you reminded me losing Evocation doesn't mean much when you have a class feature that duplicates it as a free (for you) action each round.

Edit: As a note Cindy relies on Orb of X and doesn't use Evocation.

[Cipher Stars]

Fine, but there aren't that many cases I can think of *I don't care to think of much at the moment* where getting a spell a SL early will be that problematic.
Not every spell is available earlier at a different list.