Magic the Gathering X: Deal X damage to target thread.

[ZombyWoof]

The amazing red deck also needs a playset of Basilisk Collar.
So this is my first post in the forums and I haven't read the other MtG threads but I was wondering if it's just a coincidence that Standard is the only format being talked about.

It's the most popular format by far... and this isn't me just talking out my bumhole. The vast majority of FNMs are either limited or standard. Most PTQs are limited or standard. Most PTs are limited or standard. Most people build standard decks if they want to play in a sanctioned event.

Plus there was a huge standard shakeup...

It's not the only format talked about but it is by far the most popular format and as such it generally takes up most of our discussion

P.S....

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http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/official-m12-preview-card-visions-of-beyond/ JACE JUST GOT A LOT BETTER.

[Penguinizer]

Because you have to run another bad card to make a bad card playable, it doesn't mean it's good.

To be honest, based on what I've seen of M12, I see nothing that interests me. Overall, looks like there's much more useless chaff than usual.

[ZombyWoof]

Because you have to run another bad card to make a bad card playable, it doesn't mean it's good.

LOL.

In a graveyard set or a U/G mill build that card is absurd. Milling yourself for 20 is pretty awesome when you get your vengevines back and then drawing all your threats and answers is awesome.

Or using fetchlands to build your graveyard and playing an aggro/control u/w build against u/b removal.

Even as a cycler it's pretty solid.

[Penguinizer]

20 cards is rather hard to fill even with fetchlands. I've played UG Madness and Threshold decks, 20 cards came into play in the very late game.

As for milling yourself. A: card disadvantage, B: Dead draws, C: Useless unless you're actually drawing a 4-of. More of then that not, your'e not getting much out of it.

I doubt they'll reprint Life from the Loam and the cycling lands. Those are the few times it might actually work out.

As for grave decks outside of T2. Modern islacking most cards to make this work. In Legacy, Dredge has Breakthrough which is superior. In the end, I'm just not impressed by the card.

[tgva8889]

The card is the kind of card that says "We're trying to make people play Mill!" It's not the right kind of card, but still. I also appreciate that there's gonna be Flashback cards, so you might want to load up your own graveyard in the next Standard environment a little bit.

And actually, if you're spending no resources to do it, milling yourself is actually not card disadvantage at all. Milling other people is, though. The biggest problem with mill in general is that it's just worse than playing creatures and attacking people with them. Maybe they'll fix that.

[Duos]

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I think it may see some experimental play in control before people can quantify how good it ACTUALLY is.

I agree, it's nowhere near as good as it should be if they want people to play mill, and it's not going in the right direction to make it worth it, but it may have some use-it's instant speed card draw, after all.

[tgva8889]

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I think it may see some experimental play in control before people can quantify how good it ACTUALLY is.

I agree, it's nowhere near as good as it should be if they want people to play mill, and it's not going in the right direction to make it worth it, but it may have some use-it's instant speed card draw, after all.

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It is the kind of card I want to see at $2 so I can buy several of them in the hopes that they find a home somewhere. I'm still thinking "You know, maybe there's a good way to use Mill-like strategies." We've got some pretty awesome cards available if all you want to do is totally destroy someone's deck (Memoricide, Surgical Extraction, this goofy card) and some pretty good options if you just want cards in their graveyard (New Jace and his Archivist are decent, there's always Archive Trap and Hedron Crab). Maybe we'll see mill have some time to be good. But probably not with Bloodthirst as the Core Set mechanic.

Bloodthirst is cool, but all it makes me think is "It's Aggro season" because Bloodthirst cards are pretty much only good in Aggro or Mid-rangey strategies. They're bad for Control and it's improbable you can use them in any strategy that isn't about playing creatures and attacking with them consistently.

[MammonAzrael]

M12

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As the preview article said, self milling is probably the way to go. As it stands right now, a vengevine strategy could fill the graveyard fairly swiftly, and just having a cycler would be ok for the deck. What I'm interested in is seeing how much more support milling will get from M12.

You know what has surprised me so far? Overrun is back, and back at Uncommon. I thought it was replaced with Overwhelming Stampede because having it at uncommon was just too nuts for draft?

[tgva8889]

M12

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As the preview article said, self milling is probably the way to go. As it stands right now, a vengevine strategy could fill the graveyard fairly swiftly, and just having a cycler would be ok for the deck. What I'm interested in is seeing how much more support milling will get from M12.

You know what has surprised me so far? Overrun is back, and back at Uncommon. I thought it was replaced with Overwhelming Stampede because having it at uncommon was just too nuts for draft?

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Bloodthirst makes having aggro cards like Overrun more likeable in Limited? I dunno.

[Suedars]

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There was a big discussion about it on Twitter yesterday. Basically Green was underpowered in draft, so rather than giving Green good creatures in a core set for once (Seriously, look at Azure Drake vs. Giant spider in M11. Blue, the color with supposedly the worst creatures, got a better creature at the same cost and rarity than Green, the color that's supposed to have the best creatures. It's pathetic that every single Core set Green has worse creatures than both W and U) and letting Green win through Green's strengths, they decided to give the color an uninteractive "oops I guess I win" bomb at uncommon to make up for it.

(If you can't tell I loathe uncommon Overrun and the way Green is featured in the Core Set)

[tgva8889]

"The mono-green plan" used to be a super-awesome Core Set draft strategy. That said, every time I did it, I opened the most ridiculous bombs... Howl of the Night Pack x2, boo ya.

[Suedars]

Green has had some good bombs. I just wish it weren't so reliant on them. It needs 3ish ahead of the curve creatures at common so that it's actually good at what it's supposed to be good at. In both M10 and M11 it had 0.

[tgva8889]

It used to be good without the broken bombs. It so happened that when I drafted it I always had multiple bombs (Howl is so broken) but you shouldn't need them. But yeah, M11 Mono-Green was pretty damn awful.

[BladeofOblivion]

Ha! I found one! Monowhite does have an answer to DecieverTwin! Said answer is technically available to all colors, but it's naturally White.

I speak, of course, of Norn's Annex.

The annex can be played turn 3, before even a DecieverTwin Godhand is able to run, and makes the combo unusable. Paying 2 life to attack with a 1 power creature is not a good plan.

Both Blue and Red are just about devoid of Enchantment removal in Standard, meaning that it has no real answer unless splashing Green or White.

This means that a monowhite deck has a powerful option in the new metagame, especially combined with Suture Priest. Is it enough to be playable? Maybe. But it's something.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Ha! I found one! Monowhite does have an answer to DecieverTwin! Said answer is technically available to all colors, but it's naturally White.

I speak, of course, of Norn's Annex.

The annex can be played turn 3, before even a DecieverTwin Godhand is able to run, and makes the combo unusable. Paying 2 life to attack with a 1 power creature is not a good plan.

Both Blue and Red are just about devoid of Enchantment removal in Standard, meaning that it has no real answer unless splashing Green or White.

This means that a monowhite deck has a powerful option in the new metagame, especially combined with Suture Priest. Is it enough to be playable? Maybe. But it's something.

Crush is Red artifact removal, as a one drop. Only affects non-creatures, so it's not gonna be seen often but if the Annex becomes popular I wouldn't bet against Crush being a common sideboard. This is coming from someone with no tournament experience but for local drafts, so YMMV.

Edit: And I just looked at a Deciever Twin decklist, it included Into the Roil and Duress, either of which would put a stop to your counter. You might slow it down by a turn, maybe even make it vulnerable to Sorcery-speed removal, but it's not as guaranteed as I think it probably should be.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Yeah, also, with m12 Beleren will be no longer in standard and he is a very important part of my U/B infect deck....so I was thinking about perhaps trying a Mono B Infect control tactic instead...here's VERY rough idea of what it may look like..

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Lands:
4x Inkmoth Nexus
20x Swamp

Creatures:
2x Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
2x Phyrexian Vatmother
4x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Necropede

Sorceries/Instants:
3x Despise
2x Duress
3x Dismember
3x Go for the Throat
2x Sign in Blood
2x Tezzeret's Gambit

Artifacts:
3x Lashwrithe
3x Tumble Magnet
3x Contagion Clasp

Sideboard:
2x Black Sun's Zenith
4x Surgical Extraction
2x Duress
1x Despise
1x Dismember
1x Go for the Throat
????

That's, as you can see, an extremely rough draft, but would Mono B Infect control be viable? If so, do any of you have any fix ideas for that list?

[Sohala]

I don't think anything is rotating out until the set after M12.

[Maho-Tsukai]

So M11 will remain in standard even with M12 out? I see, in that case I can still use U/B Infect with my Belerens though I wonder if Mono B would be better then U/B for me due to the fact I can't afford Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and most U/B Infect builds I am seeing now all seem to be based on Tez...

[Fable Wright]

So M11 will remain in standard even with M12 out? I see, in that case I can still use U/B Infect with my Belerens though I wonder if Mono B would be better then U/B for me due to the fact I can't afford Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and most U/B Infect builds I am seeing now all seem to be based on Tez...

No, it still rotates out, I think. Only one core set, two non-core sets in standard. Hence why the reprints of the titans was a big deal; it means they stay in standard. It's also why printing shock was a big let-down for red decks; it means that lightning bolt is rotating out.

[Narkis]

M11 rotates in October, along with Zen-block, when Innistrad comes out. For a couple months M11 and M12 will both be legal at the same time.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Yeah, though with U/B Infect builds they all seem to be going in a Tez focused direction post ban, and I can't afford Tez. Hence why I may move to mono B Infect before Beleren rotates out to get some more pratice with it because it WILL be the deck I will be playing in october when rotation happens. (not a fan of aggro decks and won't shell out the cash for Tez and/or titans...)...

So, could anybody give me any ideas to fix the rough Mono B infect build I posted above?

[Squark]

Crush is Red artifact removal, as a one drop. Only affects non-creatures, so it's not gonna be seen often but if the Annex becomes popular I wouldn't bet against Crush being a common sideboard. This is coming from someone with no tournament experience but for local drafts, so YMMV.

Edit: And I just looked at a Deciever Twin decklist, it included Into the Roil and Duress, either of which would put a stop to your counter. You might slow it down by a turn, maybe even make it vulnerable to Sorcery-speed removal, but it's not as guaranteed as I think it probably should be.

Crush can't hit enchantments. Red doesn't touch enchantments. EVER.


And to confirm, yes, M11 will be in standard after M12 is released. Since last year, core sets rotate out with their accompanying block (So M10 rotated out with Alara, and M11 will rotate out with Zendikar)

[BladeofOblivion]

Crush can't hit enchantments. Red doesn't touch enchantments. EVER.

Actually, it was because I forgot to check the card and thought Norn's Annex was an enchantment.

[Fable Wright]

Crush can't hit enchantments. Red doesn't touch enchantments. EVER.


And to confirm, yes, M11 will be in standard after M12 is released. Since last year, core sets rotate out with their accompanying block (So M10 rotated out with Alara, and M11 will rotate out with Zendikar)

Actuslly, it can destroy blue enchantments.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Actually, it was because I forgot to check the card and thought Norn's Annex was an enchantment.

Have made the same mistake myself, before. It really does seem like one.

[BladeofOblivion]

Have made the same mistake myself, before. It really does seem like one.

Now that I think about it, Ghostly Prison would stop DecieverTwin cold...

And it's been conveniently reprinted in MtG: Commander!

[Androgeus]

Now that I think about it, Ghostly Prison would stop DecieverTwin cold...

And it's been conveniently reprinted in MtG: Commander!

Now if only commander was standard legal

[BladeofOblivion]

Now if only commander was standard legal

I know, I know.

A man can dream.

[Eon]

So I just finished The Thran.
Spoilered concerning story.

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Yawgmoth is a jerk.
Poor Glacian....
Poor Rebbec...

Must read more!

[BladeofOblivion]

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Yawgmoth is a jerk.

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Really? I...I didn't know!